Krusty K

The title of the topic was everything And I guess I had scrolled down too far and wasn't paying attention. Even though after my last post I was horribly paranoid about misplacing it. Then it happens, a post even more poorly placed. than yesterday. SNIKEY! I saw everything in the title and thought perhaps others wouldn't want maleware. I'm sorry. This humble pie recipe not withstanding my rationale for posting at all was that KK's seem to be big guru fans (at least the non-Luddites among them) and often refer to other sites like the Naked Whiz site. KK forum readers are likely to see posts that mention the guru and they could conceivably surf over for a look. If they have to go the guru site find out there is something weird going on there, well then its too late. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Norton keeps blocking these "browser exploits". I went on the site to check the price of gurus and now am getting this warning even though I am not on the site. Not sure if or how big a problem it is but Norton sure doesn't like it. "a browser exploit is a short piece of code that exploits a software bug in a web browser such that the code makes the browser do something unexpected, including crash, read or write local files, propagate a virus or install spyware. Malicious code may exploit HTML, JavaScript, Images, ActiveX, Java and other Web technologies. HTML alone is harmless (can only crash browser in some cases on vulnerable web browsers), however, in conjunction with malicious ActiveX or Java code, it can potentially freeze or crash a browser, or even crash the computer running that browser."

Moving Since this is about a ceramic vs and non-ceramic it looked ok, maybe I missed burying it in the correct place -does the move seems to be an RJ sort of thing, well not really since it would never see the light of day over there. The post brought out a lot of things and certainly my friend, who now has a nice dry place for his pellets (he was keeping them in the pit by his sump pump), learned a lot about how these product-centric forums work. He is the better for it, having today, Father’s Day, actually run out of pellets in the midst of a shoulder cook. His dealer - about 40 miles away, came to rescue and left some sitting out for him to pick up. If I would have just posted early in the week he’d have known not to run out of pellets. BUT what is most important is any thing that gives any BBQ cook more information is worth reading. You never know where the next great tip will come from and while I think diversity is generally overrated, in BBQ it really helps everyone involved. Some of the comments were a little inane, but mostly either very helpful or right on the point which is everyone has a different reason for picking a cooker. My friend got a $2000+ cooker for about $600. Not sure you can touch it for that. I suspect a nice KK and guru is $2000 or more. Regarding the comment on ovens – I guess that if you could produce grandchamp BBQ with a nice home oven there would be teams using them on the circuit. And if you’re after rustic for rustic sake, join the chuck wagon circuit…..and I hope you’re making your own lump and don’t rely on that unpredictable store bought stuff. What about that Tiger!!!!

First - Let me say I am have an 8 year old K7. Never had problems other than band adjustment, always had attentive and prompt customer service. Second – I admire the Dennis’ design and execution. Beautiful, and certainly they are the current ultimate in ceramic, thick wall design. Dennis took the potential that existed in the basic concept and made significant improvements in every aspect. That being said, what am I going to buy if I want another smoker or if for some reason my K7 falls apart? The answer is NOT another K or KK or Egg or K type unit, but a Traeger wood pellet grill. Blasphemy, well let me explain. I have a friend who can afford what he wants and is pretty connected B to B wise, I’ve catered for him and made the best pork shoulder he’s ever had. And that is probably surely, and truly past tense. He got a deal on a Treager 075 w/digital control – I mean like 50% of list. He is not a student of BBQ, but he saw a good deal and without an axe to grind in the grill game, bought it. So he called me up yesterday and wanted me to consult on finishing a cook of a packer cut beef brisket which had be going for about 18 hours. Too make a short story long, his first attempt, his first low and slow, produced as good a brisket as I’ve had and much better than I’ve ever done on my K7. What did he do? Basically he set it and forgot it. No adjustment, no compensation, no nothing – set the f’in digital thermo to what you want, set you probe to monitor internal and leave it the f alone. Maybe this is a rush to judgment. So I’m asking myself, other than relatively unique and beautiful ceramic lawn ornament or deck adornment, why do I want or need a ceramic cooker? You can get this 075 Traeger w/digital option for about $1250 shipped. I holds at least as much as my K7 – but without the need to use an upper grill and without the need to remove all the meat to add lump, etc. This is not meant to be anything other than a think piece. This pellet thing is a good rig. Maybe, it can’t cook a pizza, but if you’re buying a ceramic grill to cook pizza…..well……

12 Butts in the cold This my second 100lb shoulder cook in the last couple months. Have to do it in two shifts. Here are about 60lb worth that went over night at temps below 20* and hitting about 14* for the low. Hard to fit more than 6 or 7 at once since they are so much bigger uncooked. Charcoal consumption was about twice normal, so the biggest pain is unloading them in the middle of the night to add more lump. Now all I need is a tub big enough to brine 100 lb. Pardon my dirty nasty old K. Love that barK.

K vs KK - too much caffeine As try to vie for at least top 5 favorite K owners I probably shouldn't have had all that caffeine today...... I agree almost 100% with Sominus. As I've posted in other topics, my K7 is circa 2000 has sat out uncovered in every cold winter and hasn't lost a tile. When my firebox cracked I had a new one in 3 weeks. My take in a little more detail. -Bands. I can't keep my bands adjusted, I quit even worrying about it. While I think the KK hinge appears to be orders of magnitude better, I still read of adjustments. To me unless it never needs adjustment then its a design that still needs improvement, I don't care how easy it lifts and stays up. No doubt it must leak less and adjust more easily. -As far as the OTB shape - no thanks, not enough room and the heat distribution claims are IMHO too subjective and after nearly 7 years of cooking, it is a non-issue. I'll take a classic. BUT, great that you can get which ever you prefer. -As far as the two-part firebox, I'd guess it would have to help, but not eliminate cracks just as an expansion joint limits but does not eliminate cracking in concrete (and if ceramic never cracked then you wouldn't make the firebox in two parts). -My favorite small piece/big improvement is the bottom door with the "air-flow wheel", not sure why that doesn't seem to be on all of them - love to have that retrofit on my door or for Dennis to make K replacement doors with that. -Top damper. One of the only things I like about the Egg. I don't have any trouble with mine, but I really like the KK design which is just a much, much better execution of the basic K design. I would actually feel like I had more control if I had a wheel door on the top like the bottom. My bands leak so much its a non-issue and you just adjust elsewhere to compensate. Air flow isn't the only thing that impacts temperature, like heat distribution, there's a ton of variables in lump, wood, etc. that impact temperature that you can't control. Unless of course you get one of those Gurus. -Quality, looks, intangibles - goes without saying - KK. So would I buy a KK if my K fell apart. Depends, I'm cooking so much for small catering jobs, I never really have enough room and God knows I wouldn't buy two. I think I'd find a two chamber job like what you can get from Brinkman for less than $400. I've used them, they work and they can hold about twice as much. I would be concerned that the cheaper ones, like that entry level Brinkman's, do not heat evenly all across the surface and do not retain the heat much if at all. BUT, you can't challenge a two-chamber as a valid design for serious cooking. Look at what the pro teams are using or what the manufactures of commercial rigs are selling. A lot of them (most?) are variations on that design. But look here: http://www.pigroast.com/ and here http://www.bbquepits.com/portable_trail ... mokers.htm and here http://www.bbqpits.com/ just for a few examples. BUT.... I if I had money laying around after I bought the two pinballs I must have, then I'd buy the biggest classic KK there was. You gotta love an open Forum!

I meant that as a humorous reference to K's not actually being ceramic. My understanding that KK's are relatively new and kind of claim to be the real ceramic vs RJ's Ks being concrete, can't find the quotes right now. Eggs, say that they are ceramic, but they look to be 1" thick versus 2" of more on either K or KK. I had thought that KK's came on the scene only in the last couple years where pics of the Dizzy Pig team using Eggs in 2002 before I thought that KK's hit the market. Maybe the main point is that if you're a new team and a sponsor is going to give you 5 grills (who knows maybe they did not get them free) would you say no? I was just surprised to see someone using a kamado type grill on the circuit. If you're going to compete and buy a grill(s), I don;t see teams buying a fleet of ceramic and that can't be ONLY because they are too heavy. You must be able to win contests with something else. Maybe something else is actually better? Maybe all you need is an old Brinkman two chamber? Hell, (not sure that's allowed) maybe all you need is a tin cylinder water pan smoker.....well, that might be taking it a little to far

So its about 22 1/2" main grill - probably advertised as 23". On the upper bracket I use a 18" and obviously 10 slabs won't fit flat on there and they hang off a little, but don't hit the sides of the dome. I believe with enough smoke you can get by overlapping if you have to, and I had to. I have gotten 10 shoulders at once using both main and upper, but its tight and while there are opinions that they need space - if you don't have room, they don't need it that bad, after 18 hours you can shift them once or twice. The nice thing about concrete/ceramic is that the body retains so much heat that our grills return to temp pretty quickly. I quit watching for the BBQ police to come get me for opening the lid too much a while back. IMHO, a lot of BBQ universal truths aren't necessarily true, but ideal situations promulgated by those that are just a little OCD Lucky for us that pass out during low and slows. Or I guess I could say I let mine spike on purpose to get that bark just right.

So why are these guys using Eggs to do contest BBQ? I am a rub minimalist but love ordering on line and getting stuff in the mail so will try some of these. Probably the Tsunami and Coarse Dust. I was working on a post where I was wondering out loud what cooker I'd get to do 100 LB plus at a time and was about to say that while it may be heresy in these parts, if you couldn't get contest quality BBQ from anything but a ceramic grill, they'd all be using them at contests...then I go on their site and these guys ARE using Eggs. Eggs, which are smaller, lighter than either my K7 or KK's, would be my third choice. Since I have really no serious issues with my K7 unless I was floating in dough like a lot of those that spend $1500 plus on a grill, I wouldn't buy an Egg, I'd buy a KK. I suppose though if your sponsor gives you the grills then you'd figure out away to haul them around, but I imagine hauling 4 or five Eggs is much easier than the same number of KK's. While I've never been to any large contests, and watched a lot of them on the tube, this is the first I've seen of komoda style grill being used in contests. So if I'm answering my own question - three answers - they got then free, RJ isn't making any good K's anymore, and real ceramics came after they got their Eggs. As long as I'm adding unsolicited opinion, I have thought for a long time that those of us that are competent on our Ks and KKs generally produce near contest quality ribs and shoulder. I can't speak for you, but I think brisket is by far the hardest and have never done one I was proud of, but I am a very harsh self critic. Further, blind box is the only fair way to judge, especially for teams that can't afford a fancy booth and all the other trappings that go along with judge-in -booth competitions. And finally, I guess rubs and sauces are really more important to judges than to me. I guess though if you had a competition category for no rub, no sauce, it would be really hard to pick a winner, but it would really be interesting to see if grill type or temp/time or wood type or meat quality would produce a different type competition.

My biggest cook - 5 butts, 10 slabs On my old K7 I just did 5 shoulders (about 8 lbs each) and 10 slabs at once. I did the shoulders on the main grill with a 95% coverage drip pan made of a couple layers of heavy duty foil. Did them for 12 hours, took them out to re-inject, add lump then put back in with the 10 slabs on the upper grill. Doubt you could do that quantity on a the OTB shape and its about full on a round K-type. Those slabs could have stayed longer than the 6 hours I had before I needed to take them off since they were so insulated if you will from the coals. The more indirect - obviously - the longer they can go. If you believe that the smoke either only takes for the first hour or so, or that it stops once internal temp reaches say 140* - and there are advocates of both, then you might have a different reasons for cooking longer. I try for very indirect for 6 hours - 250* to 300*. I'm not sure I see why, all things considered, you'd want to do them longer. I favor "coming off the bone" rather than falling off the bone - if you want falling off the bone you can use an old white electric roasting pan. I'd think if you leave them on long enough at 250* regardless if you've got a K or KK, will eventually or risk, certainly by 18 hours, drying them out. But, like I said, for what reason? I agree that they certainly won't be 3 times better than 6 hours.

Yeah, I forgot the cheese. The secret is the cream and more cream. Most people and lots of restaurants use just water and maybe some milk in their grits, so its no wonder most people don't (think) they like them. You can make all kinds of modifications depending on what you have and what you like. I also like yellow grits instead of white, but not sure that makes a big difference in taste. You can add lots of cheese, more garlic, skip the shrimp part, put it in a loaf pan and you have polenta. I'm making some tonight to go with enchiladas made from left over pork shoulder.

Technically another not BBQ, but not really a side. I just did a 24 hour cook which included 5 shoulders (18 hours) and 10 slabs of back ribs (6 hours) and did a triple batch of this. If you think you don't like grits, this is a place to start. Shrimp and Grits 6 cups water 2 cups grits (not instant!!!) 1 stick butter at least 2 cups heavy cream Salt to taste – sea salt or kosher salt at least 3 tsp Pepper to taste – at least 1 tsp (fresh coarse ground black, red, green and white pepper mix is best) Shrimp mixture Finely diced green and/or red pepper, at least a cup total Finely sliced Vidalia onion in half rings 1 stick butter 1 clove finely chopped garlic About 8†of andoille/Cajun or similar sausage 1/8†slices cut in half 2 lbs shrimp (no larger than 30 per lb size) Boil the water and add the grits. Stir, stir, stir Reduce to low simmer and cook until thickened usually about 10 minutes Add cream, salt, pepper and butter Increase heat to medium until butter is melted Reduce to low simmer and cook until thickened and grits are VERY tender usually at least 30 minutes. Stir, stir, stir. If grits stick, do not try to scrap up and reincorporate, leave them on the bottom, if you can’t give them your nearly complete attention pick another recipe. When grits are about half done start the shrimp mixture. Saute all the ingredients accept the shrimp until onion is floppy and turning translucent. When grits are done add shrimp to the vegetable mixture heating only until warm if the shrimp are already cooked, if raw cook until pink. Clean and remove tails of shrimp, if shrimp are frozen rinse and dry. Do not over cook shrimp. Spread grits in a large serving pan and top with shrimp mixture. Grits can be done ahead – just add some cream and more butter to revive.

Re: my 2 cents worth Moisture is really key. I don't know how many started with a $40 tin Brinkman or other silo cooker and tried to juggle the water pan without spilling it in the fire back in the day. However a foot thick ceramic cooker won't stop you from ruining a cook when your fire is too hot or your not going indirect when you should. On my K, I use the upper bracket/grill often and need to be able to get at least 3 or butts up there, so I also think the classic shape has an advantage there. I am going to try to jam 12 butts in it in month, so I hope to remember to take pictures. I would love to have either.

As long as it didn't leak, I can't see as I'd care. But, if my K stopped leaking I might get more of those blow back things - I've had two and that will scare the snot right our of you, not too mention do a number on the hair on your arms and for me, my face.

You assuredly have never seen a REAL leak... Believe me you can cook with your leaks which are probably negligible compared to what I have learned to live with in seven years with my K7. I'll be watching for resolution to this. BUT...You want leaks - I'll show you leaks And here is a close up that I used to try to show RJ that my bands would never stay adjusted. KK desgin prevents this absolutely. I can maintain 250*, but hard to stay at 200*. My customers swear I have the best shoulder and ribs, but in 7 years I have not cooked a brisket I'd be proud to feed my family let alone a tough Midwestern tavern rat. Makes good beef enchiladas however. I know I can I just have to switch to "packers" cut and get more indirect. New priorities as of discovering the KK. New kitchen, Simpon's pinball machine, then KK. Wonder if I'll be able to sell my K7.... he said "When you open your Kamado dealership, you can sell your #7 for more than you paid for it and get a new one (don’t know why though). Maybe a new color?" Thank GOd he never took up my offer to be a distributor.