Braai-Q

I was more thinking whether I could buy individual probes to build out a set to my spec. The block is cheaper for four though but I don't want the independent controller unit.

I've had a couple of Kickstarters like that. I've ordered a Meater+ and I reckon that's all I need at the moment. I'll report back.

Sorry Tony. Enthusiasm is contagious. You could divide time between the KK and the Internet? That seems reasonable? 🤪

Thanks, that's really useful. I'm going from 19" to 23" so would expect a bigger difference but the 32" would be a big step up from there. I love the industrial scale of catering you do, 50-70 people...no big deal, just a casual mid-week evening meal! I keep coming back to wanting more grill area but then going 'damn, 32" is big!' I'm genuinely a bit stuck on what to do.

I think you're right although having seen the Ox Grills, they are well made and better than Solus. The welds and refinement in the finish are what distinguish it. Ox Grills will do whatever you want so if you had a design for a cover or a point of reference, they could fabricate it. Other than a bit of novelty and alternate grill surface, I think I'd rather put my money into a 32" KK and I think they're a bit further ahead on the convenience factor. Oh no. What have you introduced me to! 😁 I think I have an account already but have stayed away from temptation. Have Hashi. Enlightened Kitchen is new to me and looks very appealing. Donabe looks interesting but I'm not sure I would embrace it. Agree with you on the Italian ingredients and simplicity. I struggle with Tomatoes at certain times of the year and find the best place is The Tomato Stall when you want to make some of Ursula's recipes. Funny how places or situations evoke certain food experiences. I also rate Angela Hartnett and her book 'Cucina'. A number of recipes in the book were on the menu at 'Merchant's Tavern' in Shoreditch which was right on our doorstep so it's quite nice to have a point of reference in knowing how the dish should taste. Research. That's my excuse. 😛 I rate Ursula along with Hazan. I use the same technique although I've started using Amazon Prime as a rental library and only keep the books that I've road tested properly. I'll go through a few recipes and if they're well written and work, then I'll keep it. Too many books that have poor recipe construction or forget steps on complex recipes or what have you. I used to spend a lot of time in Farringdon - I had a client there whose office was next to Polpo. I worked their menu over five years and did a number of client lunches there. I always judged whether the clients were worth taking to a good restaurant based on their response to the food at Polpo. I don't know if you have seen Russell's later book - 'Venice - Four Seasons of Home Cooking'. It's excellent as well. But you're right, seasonality is central to the best result and in some ways, I'm not a fan of food miles all year round availability. It's lovely to look forward to local ingredients. I must check that out. In the same spirit of that book, I'd recommend 'Egg', also by Ruhlman. 'Salt, acid, fat, heat' by Samin Nosrat is also very good if you're looking at the underlying recipe construction and food science. I have a deep section on the shelves around science, technique and method. Salt, acid, fat heat was recommended by a client who was a colleague of hers at Chez Panisse and it didn't disappoint. She also did a Netflix series a few years after the book came out and while entertaining, the value is in the book. I'd like to make a recommendation and I'll stand you to the cost of the book if you disagree but Mary Contini produced a little book called 'The Sausage Bible'. There is a recipe in it which is Tagliatelle with Luganega Sausage, mushroom and cream. Luganega is a Northern Italian pork sausage and it's slightly sweet flavoured with garlic. We like it with fennel and you can get from Delicatezza. Funny, it's a blind spot for me. I think it came to the height of its fame peak Jamie Oliver. Rightly or wrongly. I've never been. I hope you enjoy your meal in August. 😎 Sounds like a lovely tradition to establish with those milestone meals, we do similar things as a family. I admire your commitment to getting SS in Italian. Silver Spoon is excellent but I have often wondered how well the translation worked from the original. You'll have to tell me how you get on. I think I'd have to be pretty confident to ensure I wasn't confusing cucchiaio with cucchiaino and everything else in measurement! Even now having typed that, I'm trying to remember which one is the teaspoon and have to think 'Bambino' to remember. 🤪

Thanks Keith. Interesting to hear about the Meater Block. I'd have to wait for it and it's a Thermoworks Smoke vs Meater Block debate for me but the app/wireless is swinging it for me. Problem is as I'm not a backer of the KS, I'd have to wait for shipping which was said to be Q2 which is a bit vague. If you have a Meater+ and get a Block, can you run 5 probes? I've tried to determine an answer from the website and downloaded the app as well but it won't play until it finds hardware. I must be honest, the language of the Meater was a bit off putting, referring to the end of the probe as 'the pointy end' and some of the language in the interface seems to cater to people who if they need that sort of dumbing down, probably shouldn't be near fire.

Thanks Tony. I'm a fan of tools of purposes but wireless and app control has huge appeal for me. What do you call 'very long cooks' - I tend to do 12-14 hour at most so trying to understand where a controller comes into its own.

It sounds great and sounds like you're sold but if I'm buying a multi-probe unit, I think I'd need to get 4 probes.

Thanks @tekobo, that was my concern regarding getting something like a CyberQ. None of the cooks I've ever done have really demanded that level of control. I like the look of the Meater+ and the lack of wires is of great appeal. Are you able to add additional probes to it? The block looks like a good deal for multiple probes but I wasn't on the Kickstarter for it so it says Q2 shipping. Debating whether I buy the + and see if they can add more probes later or do a version without the independent controller.

I'm in the exact same position as you regarding purchasing consideration - I am looking to upgrade from a 19" and have been toying with 23 vs 32 on the grounds of grilling area. Since turning up here, I'm keeping the 19" and looking at a 32"! 😄 My learnings, partly a result of discussion with Dennis and the KK forum together with my experience of owning one for a fair few years: - The 32" is a large ceramic cooker but is a modest grill in proportion to a Weber equivalent but that's the only comparison worth making. We are a family of 2 cooking for up to 8-10 at the top end but it's pain doing a larger cook when you don't have sufficient space on the grill surface. - You can't increase the size of a small cooker but you can scale a cook down in a large cooker. - It's possible to manage larger cooks on a small cooker - it just requires a strategy for your timings and keeping food warm but speaking from experience, it's hassle and if you can afford the larger, I'd edge toward the 32". - Your questions regarding gas and the Weber I am assuming tie to convenience. I may be telling you something you know already but lighting the charcoal and getting a stable temp is incredibly easy in the KK. I use a wood shaving starter cube and a Looftligher in preference to something like a chimney to start it as it gently heat soaks versus putting hot charcoal in a cold KK. It takes maybe 5 minutes. Using extruded coco char briquettes makes it easier than a big bag of lump wood. I think everyone will have their own preferences and methods but I like the Looftlighter as I don't have to worry about consumables for it. KK quality is superb and mine looks like new and performs brilliantly after about five years. The Weber gas grill we had as part of the BBQ lineup is not even in the same realm of quality and looks 10 years older despite having had to upgrade various parts. You really won't be disappointed. I asked Dennis if he'd do me a favour and photograph the grates of the main grill for the 19, 23 and 32 next to each with a can of coke for scale reference. That's been one of my problems in terms of getting a real world understanding of comparative scale between the sizes.

Thank you very much. I appreciate the offer, really kind and I may well take you up on it. My mother in law is from the Midlands - Nottingham way and her brother lives near Burton so a familiar and lovely part of the world. SBB as in a 42"? When I ordered mine in 2013/14, I felt like a member of a small, slightly nutty club in the UK who would commit to spending the sums required for a KK. I'm glad to not find myself alone, in fact, I think I'm a junior member of the club judging by the fact that everyone else in the UK has two! May I ask what you do with the 42" - personal or catering? I came on to this forum with a 19" and was looking to upgrade to a 23" but I do a fair amount of grilling and the problem is that the surface area of the grill is finite and it's making me think that a 32" is going to be a good idea. Together with keeping the 19". 😁

Yeah, from my research, it's Solus or Ox Grills in the UK if you're going Argentine grill route but the ODK is drastically being de-scoped as a result of spending time in the forum. Hard to justify when the KK is so good and we open out on to rural countryside so the wind does pick up - having a covered cooker has some advantages. If of any interest, this video of making dried bonito is fascinating and I found it some while ago when trying to understand the differences between the different types and finishes. A friend of mine is married to a Japanese chef, admittedly patisserie but she pointed me in the direction of a shaver and educated me on the range of options available. Like Soy, buying really high quality of either really makes a difference in the dish. Care to share any recommendations on Japanese and Italian books/recipes (think I cook more Italian than anything else in fact). 😛

Thanks @jonjInteroperability is a really good point I hadn't thought on regarding the probes and their couplings. What was the attraction of the Meater? Wireless probes I assume?

Lot of love for Thermoworks. A heated box? 😁 I love the commitment. That's just brilliant.

Thanks @ckreef - really helpful comments. 👍 Assume the attraction of the Meater+ for rotisserie is wireless? Less worried about that function as I tend to judge my eye and use a Thermapen to double check if I'm not sure so wired probes would be fine. The ThermaQ Blue is on my list - it's sold by Thermapen / Thermoworks in the UK so I took that as an endorsement. It looks very flexible but I was concerned that it might be like an entanglement of Christmas tree lights (prior to LED) with the probe wires and it didn't look that sturdy. I had also looked at the CyberQ controllers but not sure I need a controller as I've not had a problem maintaining temperatures, my biggest mistake when I started was impatience. I need to do more reading on them. I've also seen Smart Fire BBQ but need to do some more research as I don't think (but might be wrong) that it doesn't offer facility for multiple probes. I'd like to have a unit that I can expand into and if a controller + monitoring offers better flexibility, I might go that way.

I'd ordinarily agree with you @5698k but the bark on two of the briskets was a bit more carbonised than what I would like and I tend to leave the temperature in the middle or towards the low end on a 130-150 cook so if there is a swing, it's not going to impact the cook. I rarely cook with the stone but must have reasoned on protecting the meat as I knew I would be leaving it unchecked for a fair time. Going up to 160 over a number of hours made a difference. Probably should have moved the meat around a bit more but I was in the middle of a big job in the garden that had me fully occupied. I can make a decision on features but the devil is in the detail. I've had superficially wonderful looking products with unintelligible menu systems that entirely compromise them or a great product but the software connectivity to remote devices might as well have been with a piece of fishing line and a tin can! I didn't think it would hurt to ask and see what the group thought as there is a lot of expertise around these parts. 😎

Hi All I have seen various comments on probes and measuring devices but there appear to be newer models out and some seem better than others for certain things so hope I'm not duplicating an existing thread (I searched) but thought that a thread on this might be helpful. What has prompted this post is the fact that I did a big low and slow cook today and my temperature got a little higher than I wanted it. I used the deflector stone versus foil and it took ages to build temperature back up but I thought it was stable and I went off and got on with the garden. The temp sneaked in a further 5-10 degrees. Easily fixed but I was thinking that it would have been handy to have had an alert that I was over my target temperature. Preferably on my iPhone. I've come down to this: https://www.thermoworks.com/Signals as a four probe solution. I have had a look at Meater+ but have read some comments on the forum that suggest that maybe the first generation wasn't so great and that their second generation had better signal transmission. They have not released multiple probes although I can see from their site that Meater Block is under development (4 probes). Interested in group opinion as I always used a Thermapen (Thermoworks in the US) but the fitted probes would be ideal. Comments on how well they fit with the KK, reliability of signal, waterproofing, killer features, other brands to consider. Grateful for any insights from the group. I'll write up a review on whatever I buy with some pictures. Thanks Alex

More subversive tactics! 😃 I might have to dry run my pitch to the forum for constructive feedback as you're all full of bright ideas. @DennisLinkletter I've not been in touch as I think we've gone from the 23" to the 32" which had nothing to do with the forum's influence of course. I don't think another week will see us going to the 42" though.

Oh you're good. The old aim above the mark to hit the mark tactic. Hahah! 😃

I think my wife will go into a not so silent scream when I mention that I've been looking at the 32" versus 23". Currently thinking I might try the 'I made a mistake on the order form' approach.... I really meant 2 and 3 not 3 and 2.... Then keeping the 19" as well. 😃 The CDS is great. What I like is the fact that it becomes concave under heat so the oil/content pools to the centre and when it cools, it returns to a complete flat surface. The KK school of engineering. If you go there, get a CDS. 😎 Top 5 are difficult when it comes to cook books and particularly Japanese as there are some which are devoted to regional foods, specific cuisines, specific styles and so forth. I sometimes find ingredients can be a challenge - buying authentic books means that you need authentic ingredients. It generally works out cheaper buying authentic ingredients and the quality is better but packaging is all in Japanese. I don't speak Japanese other than social niceties but I am at sea with the written language. I also find that you tend to have to buy quantities that put you into a specific genre for a week of that style otherwise you waste a lot of ingredients. Bonito/Katsuoboshi flakes are a classic example - I've ended up buying a block of Katsuoboshi from Japan (Toykodirect.co.uk is very useful) and have a box shaver but there are actually hundreds of styles and profiles of Bonito so authenticity can be a minefield. The flavours for certain styles of Japanese cuisine can be so delicately balanced as to ruin a dish with a substandard ingredient in my experience. I'd suggest the following (in no particular order): Japanese Soul Cooking Japan: The Cookbook (I'd call this the Japanese equivalent of 'The Silver Spoon') The Japanese Grill Japanese Cooking: A Simple Art In looking at the book shelf, it's not Japanese, more Middle Eastern influence - Artichoke but I think you might appreciate. Have a look at his website, hopefully you see what I mean. The coco char briquettes got their first run out last night. I did two Mozambique Peri Peri spatchcock chicken and it worked beautifully. I am liking the extruded briquette format, while I have plenty of space, bags of lump wood are cumbersome to store. Flavour profile was very neutral so am thinking that I need to consider smoking options sticking with coco char. Will let you know on discounts but suspect we're not offering enough volume unless we can get a reasonable group buy going. Any other UK members who might be interested?

Thanks Tony, that's kind and very helpful. I go down rabbit holes on this forum and am easily distracted so this is a great cheat sheet. I started out looking at Kemi's reply on Japanese food, looked up something that I thought might work and realised I didn't have any so ordered it, then I had to leave for London and just got back. 😂

Thanks Kemi. Wow. Reading your thread before breakfast wasn't advisable. In fact, spending any time on this forum results in me wanting to BBQ everything. Including my coffee! We're never going to cater for anything like that number of people but I do buy the argument of two grills, two temperatures. I hadn't thought of that. I've tended to use different levels to control temperature in the way you would an Argentine grill - moving the cooking surface further away from the heat source or shielding the heat source with a heat deflector per the charcoal splitter. I had actually thought about getting an Ox Grill for the outdoor kitchen but you hit the nail on the head with the burning the wood to get to the point of being able to use the heat source. It's a bit more hassle and hunter gathered than my schedule allows. I'd prefer to keep the 19" versus buying one of those being honest. Thanks for the tip on the cocoshell, it's a funny old world. I got in touch and realised that Ian who started MacsBBQ and is ProQ is actually Zimbabwean like me. I've ordered 150KG to go in the cart lodge and it arrives tomorrow. The briquettes make a lot of sense as I end up with debris and broken pieces when the lump wood bags are knocked about. Now that I have that connection, I think I'll have a chat about a group buy discount - Zimbabweans are known for making a plan and doing a deal so if you know how much you use a year, I'll see what I can do. Even if we get a retrospective discount on volume when we trigger a certain level. We're big fans of Japanese food and my wife is adept at Okonomiyaki to the point that a Japanese friend of ours who is a formidable cook commented that it was as good as anything she has ever eaten in Osaka (where the dish originates). We bought a CDS Tepanyaki Grill which is engineered to the same standards as KK so I'd highly recommend the addition. I've linked to the US site in case you don't speak German (and for the benefit of our many US friends on the forum who may be tempted too). It's a superb product and happy to share pictures/thoughts if anyone reading would like more information. I can also recommend a number of Japanese cookbooks which are excellent or if you're looking for something specific, hit me up and I'll look through them for you. I have a cookbook purchasing problem among the many other vices which work to deplete my bank balance. 🤪 My ODK plans are changing and I have to have a think on what they're going to resolve to. We're having to move budget around as we have a lot of work to do at our property but constraints can be helpful in prioritising what is actually important. Better get on with some work.

Hey Kemi I was hoping there would be someone else in the UK to compare notes on supplies. It's harder to have an ODK in the UK as you know and I think my view on what I'd like versus what will be practical is changing. I have never been part of the '5 a year and lighter fuel to get it started club'. I'm known by pretty much everyone in my social circle as the 'Adventure BBQer' on account of the fact that I'll head outside in the worst weather with tongs and a plate of food to be cooked. Having a closed BBQ and cooking in all weather isn't a challenge and we had several neighbours round for a Snow BBQ last year in the worst of the snow. They thought I was joking and two phoned to check that I hadn't got my dates wrong. Our Christmas turkey was done in the KK too and guests were disconcerted by the absence of the turkey in the kitchen. 😮 I appreciate the advice, I think it comes down to who you're catering for and what you're cooking. We're not doing masses of food nor am I cooking whole animals (other than chicken or a turkey at Christmas) and 80% of the time, it's just my wife and I. Generally, we'll have another 2-8 at the extreme end. With 44" of KK at your disposal, how are you using them and what finishes did you go for on the two? I'm stocking up on charcoal at the moment and have gotten mine from Lord Logs for years supplemented by BGE as there is a local stockist. What do you use and do you have a preferred supplier? I'm going to post up a thread on the kitchen once I've done some design sketches and see what everyone thinks. Forums are great for advice and inspiring new ways to empty your bank account!! 😂 Alex

I think the problem I have is that a 19" table top requires a surface to raise it to a useful working height and I could buy the argument if it was a 21" which wasn't available at the time I bought the 19". But it means that I have to build up a plinth. Truth is, I've never wanted for capacity - it's not like I've had to cut a suckling pig in half and we are generally cooking for 2-6 people. Although I do like your suggestion of different temperatures, something that I hadn't really thought of as much.

I have a car habit and there are times when I feel like going for a drive and I have a debate as to what to take. I imagine this is the dilemma you face when it comes to which BBQ to use! 😮 I have a Cadac Mini Chef (we use this when we go to the beach), a 19" KK, soon to be a 23" KK and a Weber Summit S670 which proved to be an utterly disappointing waste of time. The Weber is out with a boot and the 19" will go as well simply due to the duplication. It deserves to be loved and with a 23", I know it won't be. Mrs skreef is a very understanding lady. I'm going to save your post as I think it'll come in useful when I'm negotiating with Mrs Braai-Q on the next entrant! See dear, we could be discussing an 8 grill line up....😂