Big Poppa Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Ok Im just sharing my idiocy.... When I bought my KK's I said that I wouldnt use a Guru until I could handle most types of cooks manually....I was on fire.....hehehe...until my last two cooks.... I am just losing control of my fire and its my fault...Last night I had a prime rib wanted to cook starting a 400 and then slowly ramp down.....Held the 400 perfectly then just couldnt ramp down...so Of course I overcompensated and lost the fire.....arrrgh. Im still in love with this thing...it just pointed out my shortcomings.... I think that Im maybe using a little too much charcoal in the basket and lighting too much of it and not being patient enough and rushing the initial desired temp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mguerra Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 stays hot Ramping down from 400 will be a VERY slow process. The enormous ceramic mass of the KK will cool extremely slowly. If you have 2 KK's, fire one up at 400 and the other at something lower, and move the meat when ready. Plus, what is the purpose of the ramp down? You may be able to accomplish your intended purpose another way that is more do-able than trying to cool down the enormous thermal mass of a KK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mguerra Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 example I shut down my KK at 225 degrees 2 hours and 40 minutes ago, all vents closed,it's at 180 degrees now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Posted August 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Spoken like a true Dr!. I appreciate the tips even the obvious ones! The ramp down that I was looking for was a true ramp I wasnt looking for a sudden drop as you have assumed..... I wanted it to gently creep down so where the bulk of the cook would average about 250..... Sort of like the ramp feature on the guru..... I know....I love these KK's and if you dont get in their way they are fine....I was just oversteering I would use the two KK's if tyhey werent in different cities I also have been able to get the ramp down work but I really think that I just need to be more patient and not try to chase it. You are using the Stoker correct? I may have to swallow my pride and just use the Guru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxwrangler Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Re: Losing my touch.... Couple thoughts. First, overfilling it is not a problem. I usually pack as much as I can fit every few weeks (give or take depending on type and amount of cooking). Heat output is a function of how fast the charcoal is consumed which is controlled by the airflow. Sort of like a car - it doesn't go faster just because the tank is full. Second, given similar starting conditions, you will get the same temperatures. But these things are like a supertanker - it takes a long time for steering to have an effect so you have to trust that your control inputs will take effect. And you sometimes have to figure out what is different when things act differently. The two big ones I have seen are 1. not realizing that you have too much ash built up in the bottom of the basket and it is blocking the air or 2. you have just put in a bunch of charcoal and it has absorbed moisture from the air. When the charcoal is moist (even if it doesn't seem like it there is water in there) the thing will stall out just above 200F until the water is driven off. It's easy to overcompensate if you don't trust that the temperature will get to the right place eventually. One trick for your type of cook is to start the charcoal and open the vents wide open. You need to watch closely and as soon as you hit 400, put on your meat and damp to your known setting for 225. Just like a heat soaked KK can stay hot a long time, a cold one takes a bit of time to heat soak. If you get the fire going quickly and damp down before things are heat-soaked, you may be able to do what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firemonkey Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 All the above posts are good advice, Big Poppa. Once you hit 400, and let the grill walls absorb that level of heat it will be a long time to cool, even if you were to reach in and take the charcoal basket completely out. One idea...try cooking your roast at the lower temperature until almost at your target temp, then crank up the heat and give it a nice crust. Thats how I usually do rib roast, and it comes out great. Pics if interested: viewtopic.php?t=2862 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Posted August 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 I know that is the easy way and sort of the finney way...just trying different ways and know as I stated that I just oversteered..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mguerra Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 ramp down I would think the time it would take to gradually ramp down from 400 to 250 would be a long time. The only way to do this with a Stoker would be to go out there frequently and decrease the set point temp by about ten degrees at a time. If you reduced your set point from 400 to 250, here's what would happen: the fan would stop running altogether til the temp got down. If you have your vents set properly, your fire could go out during this process. The top vent should just barely be cracked. The bottom daisy wheel should be fully closed when using a Stoker , so the only effective bottom vent IS the fan device. If this is a Stoker, it closes completely when the fan is off. Therefore you have no bottom venting at all. The airflow during the extended time the temp is dropping will be zero. And your fire could go out. The Guru may not act this way since the bottom vent stays open when the fan is off. A cracked top vent and an open Guru damper might allow the fire to stay lit. Regarding the ramp down feature on the Guru, it won't ramp from 400 to 250! If I recall, it's got a 30 degree ramp down default, adjustable to maybe 60 degrees max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dms Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 One idea...try cooking your roast at the lower temperature until almost at your target temp' date=' then crank up the heat and give it a nice crust. Thats how I usually do rib roast, and it comes out great.[/quote'] ditto on this. For beef roasts I always do the reverse sear. Low'n'slow, maybe with smoke, til the roast is at 120F or so (for med rare), take it off to rest for 20 minutes while you stoke up the fire to 500F or so, then put it back on for a couple of minutes per side to get a nice crust. The result is a nice crust that stops immediately inside, and then a very even med-rare all the way to the center. I really like that I avoid the crust -> brown -> pink/red transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Hey Guys...I know how to reverse sear I know that the kk comes down slow I got impatient and lost the fire I was just commenting on that...I was tongue and cheek saying that I got overconfident and lost my touch.....BTW the prime rib came out nice just took longer..... THe ramp om my guru will do exactly what I was trying to do....Maybe mine is different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mguerra Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 From the manual From the user manual of the Cyber QII: Ramp Offset – When the ramp mode is turned on, the pit will be ramped down to the Food setpoint + the ramp offset when the Food temperature = the Food setpoint. The default value of 30 degrees will work well for most cuts of meat. For instance if your pit setpoint is 275 and your Food setpoint is 180, the pit will be ramped down to 210 (180+30) as your Food temperature climbs to 180. We determined the 30 degrees based on the amount of evaporative heat loss in an average piece of meat. If you make this lower the Food setpoint may never be achieved at the end of the ramp cycle due to the amount of evaporative heat loss. If you make this higher the Food setpoint may be slightly exceeded at the end of the ramp cycle. 10.2.Ramp Offset Screen R M P O F F S T 3 0 D E G The advanced user can adjust the Ramp Offset from 10-60 deg F. The default value is 30 deg F. This offset is used as follows: When the controller is in ramp mode the internal pit setpoint will be ramped down from the pit setpoint to the Food Setpoint + Ramp Offset. For clarification of this feature see the definition of terms section at the end of this manual. So actually Big Poppa you are dead right, you could set the pit temp to 400, with a food temp of say 130, and the Guru WOULD ramp down. It's just that it would take forever for the KK itself to cool down. But because the Guru damper is always open, the fire probably would not go out. Interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I was just experimenting with the old school oven method of cooking a prime rib where they start at 500 put the roast in and tape the oven shot so nobody accidentally opens it. From there they turn the oven off and let the heat gradually die down...I had one at a friends house and it was killer and could be held for a long time... I knew that the KK would hold too much heat to make that work at 500 so I started at 400...I was a jack ass and overcorrected and lost the fire.... Im going to tryit again......just wont be so crazy and shut the heat altogether....... You know I love the searing first (trex) and the searing after (finney) on steaks sometimes I dont do either...I guess its like driving home a different way from time to time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbower Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I never have an issue with slow ramp downs - just pop it into the 19.5" at 500F and then transfer to the 23" at a lower temp. You just need to get a second one to get things working properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Hey JD that wont work as I only have two 23"KK's! WHen dennis has a fire sale on the old small ones Ill buy a couple! Hint hint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
