ThreeDJ16

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Hahaha, talk about timing....I just downloaded your code this morning! Your project looks great and really well thought out program/features. I am hoping to figure out how to incorporate your program to use the TC4 shield and LCD expansion board, which is another really neat and well thought out project by the Home Roaster guys. http://www.mlgp-llc.com/arduino/public/arduino-pcb.html

I picked up a Wifi shield put out by Sparkfun. No extra memory on it, but the TC4 does have a built in eeprom. Also, the Sparkfun shield has some extra space for additional circuits.

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9954

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Also, did a Cal check on the TC4 thermocouple shield with a Ametek temperature calibrator using a TypeT thermocouple (from BBQ Guru) and the TypeT library. Here are the results.

http://www.mlgp-llc.com/arduino/public/arduino-pcb.html

Degrees F

Cal -------- TC-4

0-----------2 (did this one just for the hell of it, but had to leave it for a while to get there)

50-----------51

75-----------74

100----------100

125----------125

150----------150

175----------174

200----------199

225----------224

250----------249

Unfortunately, the model calibrator I used only allows up to 250 degrees F. But I think the results show enough of the usable range. And with none of our usable points being off by more than 1 degree F, I think that is more than accurate enough.

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

A new manu now has an Arduino Uno clone base board with Wifi built in. It is $73, but it saves the space of having to add a Wifi shield on top of the Arduino.

http://www.cutedigi.com/product_info.ph ... ts_id=4570

Also, anyone interested in the project but feels more comfortable using C#, here is a Microcontroller running .Net and it is Arduino size/shield comaptible.

http://www.cutedigi.com/product_info.ph ... d3871c75d7

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Along these lines' date=' aren't some $30 wireless routers running full-blown, open-source Linux? Hmm, memory, power, all the wireless hardware is already there, just a question of patching in some more IO. [/quote']

I have a WRT54G (old Linksys Router) that runs DDWRT which is an open source firmware based on the Linux kernel. But there is not much processing power to act as a controller and very little memory (as the firmware pretty much fills it up). Don't see how it is possible to add IO in a usable form for our purpose?

-=J

My appologies Syzygies, it appears you were right on the router deal. Unfortunately the version I have is the newer one with less memory (v6). But they still use an Arduino for I/O.

Anyway, check this out for a WRT54G/Arduino controlled cooker.

http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/927 ... 7691098906

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Alright....I don't see any smilies or anything, but you had to bring out the short probe jokes didn't you? I will have you know my probe is at least above average!

-=J

Re: Finally !

Now I will be thinking of a name!

Wow, I thought most people named their kids before bringing them home?? hehe

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

More Stoker research! For the temp probe, they are using a TypeK thermocouple attached to external sense resistor (Vss & Sns) on the DS2762 high precision Li battery monitor chip ( External Sense Resistor Configuration: 15.625µV LSB and ±64mV Dynamic Range ). I have attached one bad drawing and a couple of bad pics of the probe configuration....yes I cannot draw or take decent photos...so there.

If by chance Majestik is bored at work and viewing this thread, you can just barely make it out on the first pic in the flash, me sitting there in my underwear taking this pic!! I know, that you know, that I know you wanted that info.

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Just for information, if anyone is interested in the TC-4 arduino thermocouple shield, I recieved an email today from the person who makes them and they will be available very soon. He has a reflow setup and sells the boards with surface mount chips already installed.

http://www.mlgp-llc.com/arduino/public/arduino-pcb.html

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

What would be neat is if there was a small compartment, say on the back side of the case, were the connection jacks would be behind a door. It could have a silicone edge on it to seal where the wire poked through. But honestly, as long as the connections are on the bottom of the case, I think a simple ziplock works great. I have used my Procom through some very nasty down pours with zero issues.

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Guess for me, not real fond of those automotive connectors. They are fairly big and ugly. Really don't want a bundle of wires poking out of the controller housing either. If I had planned on making my own probes (but wanted to use either my Guru or Stoker probes), then I would want them as absolutely small as possible. But good part on the connectors is you can pretty much use what you want.

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

I've been mulling over the connector options' date=' I wonder if we should consider something like automotive weatherproof pigtails instead of 1/4" jacks?

Those plugs are usually solid injection molded...right? How would you use the chip?

Especially if we're going to need identifier chip adapters for existing probes/fans this would let us tape up the 1/4" to weather-proof connector as we see fit. And we'd be able to have a much higher density of them to boot since we wouldn't need surface mount receptacles.

Not sure I understand....maybe I am still half asleep.

Every time I start thinking about the waterproofing, it usually gets really expensive and complex or really cheap and simple. Not a lot of middle ground. On one hand the zip lock bag or plastic glad container is cheap and effective. On the other, some nice waterproof micro jacks and plugs would be great (the chip can be inline in a tiny box or simply expoxied in place). But the cost of those would probably be more than the rest of the project combined.

One thing about this part, everyone can go their own route if they so choose.

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Forgot to add, if you do want something Linux based, there is always the Chumby.

http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_ ... cts_id=278

http://www.chumby.com/

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Someone needs to ask this, even if there's a good (negative) answer: With mini-ITX motherboard/cpu/vga combos selling for $45-$60 on Newegg (add memory, power), why spent countless hours trying to learn new languages and debug the whole sort-of-a-computer-on-a-chip route? Arduino sounds like an awesome olive oil, but I'm not sure it's the computing environment of choice.

If we went this route, the unique contribution for BBQ would be a PCI-e card for the barbecue-specific IO. Perhaps interfacing with some analog discrete components for scale, but as we all know, analog electronics is kindergarten stuff, at least for what we'd need.

Well for me, not having a computer (laptop) sitting outside by my cooker was the whole reason I started the arduino research for an interface for the CyberQ. I want as small as possible, all encompassing controller. So that is out for me.

Along these lines' date=' aren't some $30 wireless routers running full-blown, open-source Linux? Hmm, memory, power, all the wireless hardware is already there, just a question of patching in some more IO. [/quote']

I have a WRT54G (old Linksys Router) that runs DDWRT which is an open source firmware based on the Linux kernel. But there is not much processing power to act as a controller and very little memory (as the firmware pretty much fills it up). Don't see how it is possible to add IO in a usable form for our purpose?

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Some pics of the Stoker Board for anyone interested but too nervous to take apart.

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Great. BTW, only reason I wasn't to happy with the B standard for this project is range. My grill is at the fringe of range with G, which is why I had to use a repeater with the Stoker. FYI, if you really wanted to keep down costs and save on space, we could come up with an integrated shield to handle 1-Wire communications and Wifi (up to the design challenge Syz?).

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mic ... mHGDFlC4OI

http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/2834

http://sheepdogguides.com/arduino/asw1onew1.htm

http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Learning/OneWire

There is potentially enough room on this Wifi Shield to add the 1-wire controller. I would be willing to pay the $34 more to upgrade from B to G and have the chip already soldered onto a shield. Could even put a tiny riser board on it if necessary.

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9954

Also, here is the chip used on the Stoker temp probes.....god my head hurts from trying to read those tiny numbers. Interesting they used a LI battery monitor chip. The DS2760A on my probes are no longer in production. The new number is DS2762. Price - $2.48

http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/3950

Chip on fan is a switch (DS2405) which is no longer in production. The new chip is DS2413. Price - $1.02

http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index ... /4588/t/al

Looks like the same two pins are used on the power as the temp probes. So the switch chip just decides whether or not to pass on the power through the chip.

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Here is a cheaper Wifi shield for the Uno provided you could live with 802.11b.

http://www.cutedigi.com/product_info.ph ... ts_id=4564

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Cool, glad you grabbed one to play with, as they are a fun little toy. You can grab their IDE and start playing immediately. Not sure what more is needed with the management software, as you can already host a web server that can control the device and display basic information (just need to add a wifi or ethernet shield for that). Another interesting thing, I had forgot there is another program that can be used with the Arduino called Processing. It was designed for interfacing with Arduino and displaying data....such as a nice temp graph. The coffee roasting guys use it along side their arduino programs to get a nice temp graph of their roasts.

http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Interfacing/Processing

I agree the Uno is limited, but what is needed for a BBQ controller? As long as it has enough inputs/outputs to do all the functions we need. Would be much nicer with an embedded Wifi controller and 1-wire (if we go that route).

Another thought is something suggested to me by another forum member (Dan), you could just buy a Tini board from the same people as Stoker. I believe they were in the $100 range. Not sure if any have the Wifi built into any boards, but that would be easy enough to check. Since they also built the 1-Wire chips, stands to reason interface with them should be built in. Will look into them more when I get the chance.

FYI, not had a chance to do this since I have been working nights all weekend, but next couple of days off I will break open the Stoker probes and try to identify the chips used in the connectors. Also I want to get a better understanding of power distribution via their jacks.

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

A reflow oven (plenty of homemade designs out there) would be nice for SMD components, but I have hand soldered some pretty small SMD parts. There are some other homemade devices, one made of a desoldering iron, that can make the job easier. My favorite is the Reflow skillet (http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/59). Also, there are plenty of places online you can get the boards nicely manufactured once you have a layout drawing.

http://batchpcb.com/index.php/AboutUs

In agreement about Mouser, Digikey and have also used PartsExpress (more audio related stuff).

I definately like the idea of the custom case. FYI, the link below looks just like the Guru Procom remote case? Here are a couple of places that have loads of premades and do custom.

http://www.pactecenclosures.com/product ... classid=27

http://www.polycase.com/

An LCD readout is also a must. I did find an article on connecting an LCD via the 1-Wire system. Also found out they have 1-Wire buttons and loads of other devices that could be cool addons.

But first things first, microcontroller platform? Existing premade or completely custom? Addon board? 1-Wire system or the TC-4 shield board listed above? The biggest unanswered question is software design and computer interface? Guessing that depends some on the microcontroller.

I am already partial to the Arduino and there is so much out there for it already. They are a whole $30, so anyone can grab one and develop from that base. I have already purchased a TC-4 with lcd/button board, but willing to chalk it to learning if we can actually come up with a better way to interface whatever temp device with the microcontroller. One downside to the Arduino is nobody is currently making a clone (that I have found) that has Wifi built into the base board. There was one company, but they went out of business in the last month. The Wifi cards add another shield layer to the board and considerable expense being they are only B & G ($50-$90 which is rediculous for that). Each additional shield layer complicates the case design too. If we stuck with only one additional shield, the case I posted in the first post was already custom made for the arduino board, one shield, button cutouts and an LCD. I am probably up to the challenge with handling the board soldering for those who need it (provided the numbers were not rediculous), but I am just starting out on the software side. Would need someone to take the lead on that aspect.

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Heck, apparently there is already a library and tutorials for the 1-wire.

http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Learning/OneWire

Here is an interface.

http://www.phanderson.com/stamp/onewire.html

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

While I do like the arangement Stoker has implemented whereas you can use any jack to plug in any device, that throws in many more complications. After doing some googling, that chip (called a 1-Wire) in the Stoker is not just identifying the device, it is transmitting the signal (if it is a temp probe). So if they are using a TC, then is it must have the ability to amplify too. Same people that make the Stoker's board, also make the 1-wire chip. I have read some posts about people interfacing 1-wire chips with Arduino......will look and see what is involved.

http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/1-wire/

I forgot to look the last time the stoker was apart, but I am guessing the for fan and signal from 1-Wire chips is handled via different prongs on the phone plug (they can even have mechanical switching available on the jack side).

Oh yeah Syz, the PWM is easily handled on the Arduino. One of my first projects was creating a dimming LED via PWM. For the fan, just use a solid state relay on an output pin and control away. Also the web server is there. When you add the Wifi card, you can add the webserver software. There is already a library written for it....in my original post, check out the link to Arduino, then library section.

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

Yeah, TCs are probably fine for a cooking application.

I had to go to RTD's in the software controlled still I've been building for a large client, because we really need 0.1 deg C precision AND accuracy in order to adjust power or reflux quickly and keep the column in equilibrium as the boiler depletes.

I'm currently using a NI backbone, industrial strength, but very spendy. I was hoping that I might find something that would do the job in the open source community.

Cheers,

Mike

Yeah, I completely agree in your application since temp ranges are so tight. There are posts out there of people who have used Arduino for RTD, but unfortunately I did not come across any premade shields.

Just curious, Moore used to make a tiny PLC called the Equation Station that easily handled RTDs. From what I remember, they were pretty cheap as I have one. Though you still have to buy their software to program the device. Used to deal with PLC and DCS systems once upon a time.

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

I've played with the Arduino I got at Maker Faire a year ago but haven't done much practical with it' date=' yet. There was an Arduino intro class at Ace Monster Toys last week but my schedule didn't allow getting to it. Sounds like a controller would be a good Arduino project, though.[/quote']

Agreed! For myself, it is a learning platform for C/C++ (yes, my last programming class taught Fortran, Pascal, Cobol, Basic...so way behind the times). But at least the basic process is still there (plus I develop Filemaker databases which helps a little). Luckily with the internet, it is so easy to find a wealth of knowledge, resources and free programs to learn with. FYI, all software for Arduino is free and it also works with Arduino clones.

I already have several BBQ controllers, but thought it would be cool to have something developed by a group of BBQ folks, for us. Everything being open source and non profit would mean anyone can build it, tweak it for their own needs and share with the group. I am always amazed at all the cool toys and methods for use people can think up. And with a like minded end use, we all benefit. So hopefully, there will be some interest.

-=J

Re: Build Your Own BBQ Controller (w/Wifi)

The issue with RTD is going to be the interface board (signal amplification to get the resolution needed for accuracy). I have not run across anyone with an Arduino RTD shield. Now thermistors could be used directly with the main arduino board, but you would be limited by the number. And I typically have not had great luck with cheaply made thermistor probes.

So being these guys developed a very nice TC board (and offer it for sale) and all the existing software, seems that would be a good way to go. Not to mention, change the term strips out for phone plugs which makes it completely Guru plug compatible. They also have developed the LCD board which has 4 buttons and 3 leds on it connected by IC2 (so it does not tie up the Arduino I/Os). Check out the pics of the full unit in their google code page....pretty nice.

Since we are talking about controlling a grill and not nuclear fission (fyi, all the reactors I have seen use TCs at the bottom of the vessel), TCs should be just fine to use. Not to mention cheap, easy and sturdy. The Guru folks have used them on all their controllers and with results verified by Whizzy, are pretty darn accurate for the purpose we use them. Faster TC response might also be helpful with open lid detect since you need to see a sharp temp drop over a very short time.

-=J

FYI, do we have anyone on the board interested in developing their own Wifi server BBQ controller and software? That way we would have complete control over features and functions.

I started out researching a better way to communicate from the computer to the BBQ Guru CyberQ and stumbled upon Arduino microcontrollers. There are loads of groups out there developing all sorts of neat applications for these little devices. They have also developed plenty of software librarys to run on these microcontrollers. So I purchased one along with a USB host controller shield (a shield is an additional board that plugs into the base Arduino board to add different functions to it).

http://www.arduino.cc/

http://www.amazon.com/Arduino-UNO-board ... B004CG4CN4

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9947

Anyway, after more research I found a group of coffee roaster folks that had developed their own shield board which added thermocouples to the Arduino and had written PID & monitoring software for the purpose of controlling their roasters. Didn't take much from that to think it would be great to modify it for a KK and have a single controller that does everything I want, not even needing the CyberQ.

http://www.homeroasters.org/php/forum/v ... post_28017

http://www.mlgp-llc.com/arduino/public/arduino-pcb.html

http://code.google.com/p/tc4-shield/

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9954

http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_ ... cts_id=271

I have purchased everything above (except Wifi board - that will be last) and have a working model running their software. I also modified their code library written for TypeK thermocouple to work with the standard Guru TC which is TypeT. I am looking for anyone interested in starting up a similar project as the coffee roaster guys, except for grilling. The Arduino language is based on C/C++.

-=J

Re: Tiny Stoker wireless gateway Very Nice...came in today. Appreciate the suggestion as it turned out great. Couple things (possibly slightly different model): - On mine, the USB is for power only (no data wires) and the connector simply pulls off leaving a barrel type connector. Power can be supplied via this cable to power the unit, or can be used to feed power to device (ie..Stoker). - Programming is done via the Ethernet jack (plugged into computer). Almost perfect wiring. As I mentioned above, the USB plug pulls off leaving barrel jack. Unfortunately it is the next size smaller than what is on the Stoker. But a simple solution was to drill it a tiny bit bigger and it fit the Stoker perfectly (there was plenty of room to drill it out). For the power to the wifi device, just so happens in my stack of old computer junk/cables, I had a 5v power supply with the smaller barrel jack that fit perfect. So now I have one power supply that feeds both devices and it is pretty compact. As Dan mentioned the range is not great (but my router is upstairs at front and grill is in backyard). Luckily I had a bridge repeater handy for the downstairs. -=J