Bobkat Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 16# Of Chuck met the KK over the weekend. Looked great, but came out kinda dry . Cooked at 210 for the first 23 hrs. (btw J - that Guru is da BOMB...kept the KK within 2 degrees the ENTIRE time and I slept like a baby ) then it seemed to get stuck at about 174 degrees and my family and friends were getting hungry. So I told the Guru to take her up to about 240 for another couple of hours. Best I could get the meat temp to get to was 183 or 4 (shooting for 190) and at that point I HAD to take it off the cooker or risk divorce. The meat was cooked through & taste was good but honestly rather dry. What did I do wrong guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestik Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Re: First Chuck Roll...Did something wrong Cooked at 210 for the first 23 hrs. (btw J - I am by no means an expert, but my guess would be too low, too slow. I don't recall the details, but I think I cooked mine at less than half that time and it came out perfect. I think I cooked at 300ish, too. Now I'm going to have to go and check my old posts. EDIT: Alright, I went and looked at my original post. On the Chuckwagon I did mine at 350F for 7 or so hours. Yes, I suck at low and slow. But it worked for me. It was fabulous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchop Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 well, not an expert on the chuck roll specifically, but, i would probably disagree with mike. the old rule of thumb with brisket (which is similar in makeup to the chuck roll) is, if its dry, or tough, you didn't cook it long enough. like i said, rule of thumb. i've only done 1 chuck roll, so hard to say. here's why i hold the opinion... (edit: this is not to say that i disagree with the results mike got on his original cook; whatever works. what i disagree with was the remark on "too low too long"... pray continue...) you say it "got stuck" at an internal of 174. there's a reason for this. the magic that happens during a low & slow has to do with the breakdown of collagen (connective tissue) during the cooking process. between 165-175, in that general range, connective tissue breaks down into gelatin and water. the effect is twofold. the connective tissue is what makes tough meat (brisket and chuck) tough. so, the breakdown makes the meat both tender and juicy. this process is GRADUAL. during this process, the collagen acts as sort of a heat sink, causing the meat's internal temp to "plateau" at that magic range. you can't rush thru this, as the collagen doesn't instantly "transform" into water and gelatin when the internal hits those temps, so it does no good to try and rush things at the end. the internal temp will be "the right temp", but the process that these temperatures accomplish with time will not occur, resulting in... dry and tough meat. so. you need to strike a balance with the ol' chuck roll. IN MY OPINION, you started at too low a temp. start at 250-275. that way, you hit the low end of that temp range sooner, and the meat has longer at that plateau without taking as long as you describe. but, bottom line here; it takes as long as it takes. it would have been better to leave the roll on at the temps you're describing and ordered pizza. beef sammiches for breakfast the next day. if i'm correct, you still have plenty of collagen left in your beef. if you haven't scrapped the whole deal, i'd try to revive by putting some of it in a dutch oven or tinfoil pan with just a splash or two of coke, cover and let roll at 225 in the oven. just to see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primeats Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Chuck Roll I would tend to agree with majestic, unlike a pork butt a chuck roll just doesn't have the fat dispersion(sic?). As a meat purveyor(ok a butcher) the grade of meat can make a difference, although this looks like USDA choice at least, and every piece of meat can turn out differently too. On another vein,be careful cooking at under 200 degrees, you can run the risk of food poisoning- I think Dennis had a post about food safety a while back. Congrats on your first roast and don't give up, can't honestly tell you how many creatures that have been sacrificed to the BBQ Gods on my grill(only steel for now, but I'm told it won't be for long!)And great pics from all you people, I'm really impressed with this forum at how informed and enthusiastic you all are. By the way did you see the pics of Dennis' last steak cook out? The quality of meat would appear to rival anything that I sell here, and of course he cooked them perfectly. Guess Chris Lilly's course really helped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primeats Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Anybody seen Chuck? I was about to say I think Pork Chop would have a better opinion than I do about how long to leave it on and I agree with him too(geez I'm very agreable this morning-must be the coffee) on if it's tough it needs to cook longer, but if it's dry that could be something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchop Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 prime, right on about dennis' ribeyes! almost too beautiful! i love seeing marbleing like that... i'm so used to seeing that big knot of fat in ribeyes, and choice and/or select (ugh) taste greasy to me. i'm a big fan of the leaner steak/grilling cuts; love the top sirloin and the top round, thick cut for london broil. thought of you the other day; went to a local shop that sells prime. only place i know of in town, actually. i left very annoyed; he treated me like a rube. prime looked more like choice. was selling select ribeyes for 10.69/lb.!! i asked him twice about them, and he said that, while they were graded select, they seemed more like choice to him. bs! so i left and went to my small town grocery. much smaller selection, but really fresh and decent prices. was thinking of splurging on some prime steaks, but just got ticked at this guy for bald-faced lying to me about stuff. i said, wish prime had a shop around here! i could trust that guy! far as tender v juicy, or tough v dry... well, yeah, there's fat and collagen to consider in the equation. you went one way, i went the other. honestly, i dont even think of fat as having much benefit for butts or brisket or chuck roll, as far as the above qualities are concerned. fat is there for FLAVOR! i dont really think it "bastes" the meat much tho. just my opinion. now, its different for steaks, a little at least. the more marbled tend to be the more tender cuts, altho backstrap is the wildcard there. so, is fat in steaks causal or not? does the marbleing actually MAKE the meat tender, or does it just tend to be present in the less used, thus more tender, muscle groups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primeats Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Thanks PC, Yep there's a lot of "upgrading " that goes on even here. At 10.99 lb this guy is making a good mark up on select beef, good for him, but you can't make a silk purse out of--- well you know what I mean. And shame on him for not being upfront! Next time I'm in Champ. I will let you know, my daughter wants to visit the campus again for next year. So far she likes Iowa over Ill. but who knows ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchop Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 dude, defo let me know! we will have to put something together! went in there, looking for, of all things, a TRI TIP no luck, tho... didn't go in looking so much for prime, as i was looking for a weird cut that the average store case wouldn't have. he did have some hanger steaks i was checking out too, but, y'know he's gotta have killer overhead with his location and digs. some of his stuff was actually reasonable, but not what i was looking for. was considering some decent sirloins, thinking, what the heck, why make another trip; just get them here. then he ran that bs past me, and i was done with him. he opened his mouth and lost a sale! i know the margin on meat right now is real thin, but dont insult my intelligence, man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobkat Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Thanks for the info. guys...I was afraid I may have 'pushed' it along at the end. Hey PorkChop, when you say "start at 250-275", are you suggesting I lower the temp at some point or just cook at teh higher temps the whole way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestik Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 well' date=' not an expert on the chuck roll specifically, but, i would probably disagree with mike. the old rule of thumb with brisket (which is similar in makeup to the chuck roll) is, if its dry, or tough, you didn't cook it long enough. [/quote'] Bah, humbug! 23+ hours makes a jerky roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobkat Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Okay - in my defense, it wasn't THAT bad Maj...just a little drier than I would have liked. Point taken though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetzervalve Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 So far she likes Iowa over Ill. but who knows ! Must be a real smart gal!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchop Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Thanks for the info. guys...I was afraid I may have 'pushed' it along at the end. Hey PorkChop' date=' when you say "start at 250-275", are you suggesting I lower the temp at some point or just cook at teh higher temps the whole way?[/quote'] 250-275 the whole way thru. at the 240 you probably needed another 4-5 hours or so... 250 the whole way thru woulda had you done at the 23 hour mark or so, just guessing. the reason that folks shoot for that 190 mark, is that is where the "plateau" really breaks. when you get up to that temp, its the sign that there's no more (or very little) connective tissue left to act as a heat sink. that means, you've broken it all down, and the meat should be tender and juicy. going too far past that point, and the water that was rendered from the breakdown of the collagen can get lost, and then the meat dries up for real so, you just shoulda left it on a bit longer; can't let the wife rush you like that just remember, "worry makes the meat tough". you let the meat tell you when its done, not a temp probe, polder, guru, the clock on the wall, or the wife and guests. it is done when it is done. "time be time" as the rastaman says... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchop Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Bah, humbug! 23+ hours makes a jerky roll. no, you dont cook jerky! you dry jerky. 210 is a cooking temp. first, soak your 16# chuck roll in a solution of tender quick and spices in the fridge for a couple days. set your guru for a temp of 100-125 degrees, and set your cooker for indirect, with your choice of hardwood for smoke... put chuckroll in and let go for 1 month. makes one serving for a very big mouth. guess that's why YOU think of jerky when you think of chuck roll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestik Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 makes one serving for a very big mouth. Hmm.... now where did I put those photoshop pictures...??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestik Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Okay - in my defense' date=' it wasn't THAT bad Maj...just a little drier than I would have liked. Point taken though.[/quote'] Doh, sorry Bobkat. I was exaggerating solely to gouge Porkchop. No disrespect, mah friend. But look at all that sweet juicy flaky delishushness. Hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchop Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 dont let maj get you down bobkat! try again, sir! if i remember, my chuckroll took 20 hrs at 250, and it spiked for a little while to 300. good results, but, even then, it coulda gone a little longer. the very center of the roll had some fat and connective tissue that hadnt broken down yet. 250 for 24 hours would do the trick, but check it at like 20. yes, maj, that does look ver' tasty, mon ami! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobkat Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 So THAT's what it's supposed to look like. I'm going to print out the pic and tape it to my kk next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestik Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 So easy... ...a caveman can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobkat Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 LOL...I'll start dragging my knuckles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
