ThreeDJ16 Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 I really like your design on the burner as far as keeping the venturi inlet inside the door. That way air cannot get pulled through it after the flame is extinguished and the door is closed. Now, what I am wondering if you will be able to do for me is add your "low airflow control feature" to the door. Somehow if that could be incorporated into the same space at the gas in jet (maybe use the valve stem as the center post for the damper to spin on)? I can visualize it, but not really describe it well. I also want to do away with the pilot (I have a long striker stick) and get a single valve (which the knob faces straight out and gas attach faces down). I think that is the one thing the K gas attachment did right is a valve that made the gas feature not so ugly to leave installed. The only reason I bring this item up is I really like have the gas start and leaving it attached always. I hate the idea of swapping doors and having to leave one laying around. Before I will do that, I believe I will get the flame throwing weed burner. This is also the only item on the grill so far, I do not like the look of - nothing negative meant - just my opinion. So I am hoping this can be an option for me? I would be willing to help find the right valve. -=Jasen=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Re: Gas Burner Idea add your "low airflow control feature" to the door. I also want to do away with the pilot and get a single valve (which the knob faces straight out and gas attach faces down). I would be willing to help find the right valve. -=Jasen=- This can be done.. I like the idea... I also would like to get a more finished product look for the valve. This burner was chosen for it's robustness and BTU. The pilot just happened to be there... As you can imagine there is not a lot available on the local market here. I would appreciate your help in finding another valve.. Thank you for you ideas.. please keep them coming.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted June 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 ?? It would help me in finding the valve if I had a close up pic. I am trying to see if the valve contains the jet orfice or if they are seperate and thread together? Type and length of threading needed to connect together and to burner. Also trying to find one with flare gas in connection instead of the barb (seems to be the standard for all outdoor burners connections - or at least all that I have or have ever seen). It is always fun trying to sift through online manufacturers catalogs - I might wait till I get to work where I have access to books instead. -=Jasen=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted June 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 ?? Still looking but this (http://www.hsiang-i.com/hsiang/product/images/p017-l.jpg) is a starting point. With this valve you could thread in whatever type fitting you need. My preference was one that looked like that one with 3/8 flare (I think that is the stardard size - need to go check that) inlet to 1/4 (or whatever is needed for your burner) outlet. -=Jasen=- Actually, I just found this and like it slightly better - http://www.hsiang-i.com/hsiang/product/images/p016-l.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted June 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Yo Dennis! How about this one - the company seems able to manufacture the valve in about any inlet/outlet configuration you need. All it needs is a knob, and I am sure they sell one or you could come up with a nice stainless one. http://qicaivalve.en.alibaba.com/produc ... Valve.html -=Jasen=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salguod Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Gas Temperature? I noticed that the K forum implied that the gas temperature maxed out around 400 degrees. Is it the same for the KK? Not that it matters really, as I would still supplement with charcoal, but that would not be hot enough to burn the grill clean. I sounds like gas would still be a good way to save money by preheating the ceramic before dumping in the charcoal. What is the max temperature that you get from gas alone? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted June 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 More Suggestions! I was thinking a bit more about incorporating the low airflow feature into the burner. It would seem to me that about all that would be needed for this part is to add a small tab on one of the movable fins (for adjusting) since the knob would be gone and replaced with the burner input. -=Jasen=- PS - also bumping this valve link back up - http://qicaivalve.en.alibaba.com/produc ... Valve.html. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoliver Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 Re-Incarnation Of the Gas Burner Ok, first let me preface this post with "THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED TO DO THIS", however being the type to want things exacly how I want them I decided to set out to reincarnate the gas burner valve. I was also pushed by the forum followers to do some R&D. So see below my new product which I transformed using about $10 of parts I found in Lowes. I think the usefull part is that I believe I found out that the thread size is 10mm 1.25 (whatever that means) However since these type of fittings are not readily available I was able to make a 1/8" pipe thread work to screw into the valve. I had the hose manufactured and it had a 3/8" MPT end. I took off the pilot light and sacrificed safety for looks. (Don't do this at home). Anyway just thought I'd share my work. BTW I was able to reach about 400 deg. with just the gas. Not sure if all my rigging made it give off less heat but it looked like it was burning pretty well. If anyone else has a gas burner let me know if this flame looks the same. About 1/2" in height. Sorry Dennis but I had to take the burner apart that I had as people were asking questions. Needless to say you don't need to send me a burner now. All you readers must back me up on this as I was doing it for the team even though this was not "MY" burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoliver Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 DJ, I take it this is too much rigging for you huh? It really looks worse in a blown up picture. When its on the grill you barely notice it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted August 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 DJ' date=' I take it this is too much rigging for you huh? It really looks worse in a blown up picture. When its on the grill you barely notice it.[/quote'] Yup, too much for me. Tony, I would highly recommend tossing that valve in the trash now. I did not want to say anything, but that is just too dangerous and I could not hold out for your own safety. Cross threading is never a good idea in any circumstance; but on a gas line it could be disastrous. Please, nobody else even think about that. Thread engagement is the main thing that stops a leak. Contrary to popular believe that pipe tape or pipe dope is a sealant; it's main purpose is a thread lubricant to get more threads engaged and prevent cross threading. Please, nobody blow themselves up over a BBQ. -=Jasen=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salguod Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 400 Degrees? Ok, it sounds like the answer to my long standing question is 400. So the KK operating on gas alone maxes out at 400 degrees Fahrenheit; unless Tcoliver’s modification affected the burner efficiency? How about you other guys with stock burners? Does 400 degrees match what you get on gas alone? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted August 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Re: 400 Degrees? Ok, it sounds like the answer to my long standing question is 400. So the KK operating on gas alone maxes out at 400 degrees Fahrenheit; unless Tcoliver’s modification affected the burner efficiency? How about you other guys with stock burners? Does 400 degrees match what you get on gas alone? Doug My question was if his draft door was open or closed. The only reason I ask is it looks like the burner is sitting farther to the back in the pic with it operating. If the door is not open then it would not be getting a good supply of air. The other question is if the air adjust thumb wheel is opened all the way at the burners entrance. Either of these two would cause lower temps. -=Jasen=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salguod Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 400 Degrees? I guess that the New Low Airflow Gas draft door could improve gas performance by allowing the main door to be all the way shut (centering the burner) while still allowing sufficient air for combustion. Any tests, Dennis? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted August 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 DJ' date=' I take it this is too much rigging for you huh? It really looks worse in a blown up picture. When its on the grill you barely notice it.[/quote'] Yup, too much for me. Tony, I would highly recommend tossing that valve in the trash now. I did not want to say anything, but that is just too dangerous and I could not hold out for your own safety. Cross threading is never a good idea in any circumstance; but on a gas line it could be disastrous. Please, nobody else even think about that. Thread engagement is the main thing that stops a leak. Contrary to popular believe that pipe tape or pipe dope is a sealant; it's main purpose is a thread lubricant to get more threads engaged and prevent cross threading. Please, nobody blow themselves up over a BBQ. -=Jasen=- OK, I thought of another option. Ship it down here to me (just valve to keep shipping down) and I can give a try at re-tapping just the thread on the valve. I am not 100% positive, but I think I might have enough depth on it to convert to 3/8 NPT. The only thing that worries me is I do not have a bottom tap (for tapping holes that so not go all the way through), but there might be enough thickness for me to drill slightly past center where a standard pipe tap will work. Anyway, balls in your court - just remember no guarantees, but I personally think you would not be losing anything since you should trash that valve anyway. -=Jasen=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoliver Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 DJ, I also was very leary of cross threading this fitting however 1/8" is VERY close to the 10mm. Whan I was at home depot I took the fitting that came with the valve and it actually fit into an 1/8" nut, it fit better in the 10mm but was pretty snug int he 1/8". Considering the 1/8" is slightly larger than the 10mm it made it very snug when I screwed it into the valve. After I installed it I did a very safe flame test with a lighter and have done so a few times since. I will keep a very close eye on it for sure. I appreciate the concern and the offer to retap however the thickness of the threaded hole is very short and you probably would not be able to get a tap into it. I had thought of bringing it somewhere to do the same. If I begin to smell gas I will trash the valve as you say. I'm actually use to it as my K burner leaked all the time but I couldn't figure out where. Never did the flame test since I could actually smell the gas leaking. When I turned the valve off I always got a quick POP after a few seconds. As for the airflow. I tried it every which way I could, draft door all the way in and top open very wide, then shut down to a couple turns. Draft door open and the top open wide then closed down. It really didn't seam to affect the flame or temp very much no matter what I did. Actually for some strange reason it seemed to go down when I opened the draft door. Maybe the heat was escaping thru the door. There is still the hole for the pilot tube but it is very small so there is a little air flow even if the door is completely closed. The new draft door will be very helpful in this aspect. Also I figured the burner would go out if it didn't get enough air, this never happened. I too would be interested to see pictures of other peoples flame and get their input on how high of temps they can get. I did have the thumb turn opened all the way as I thought this actually made it hotter I will try closing it tommorrow to see if it makes any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted August 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 DJ, I also was very leary of cross threading this fitting however 1/8" is VERY close to the 10mm. Whan I was at home depot I took the fitting that came with the valve and it actually fit into an 1/8" nut, it fit better in the 10mm but was pretty snug int he 1/8". Considering the 1/8" is slightly larger than the 10mm it made it very snug when I screwed it into the valve. After I installed it I did a very safe flame test with a lighter and have done so a few times since. I will keep a very close eye on it for sure. I appreciate the concern and the offer to retap however the thickness of the threaded hole is very short and you probably would not be able to get a tap into it. I had thought of bringing it somewhere to do the same. If I begin to smell gas I will trash the valve as you say. I'm actually use to it as my K burner leaked all the time but I couldn't figure out where. Never did the flame test since I could actually smell the gas leaking. When I turned the valve off I always got a quick POP after a few seconds. As for the airflow. I tried it every which way I could, draft door all the way in and top open very wide, then shut down to a couple turns. Draft door open and the top open wide then closed down. It really didn't seam to affect the flame or temp very much no matter what I did. Actually for some strange reason it seemed to go down when I opened the draft door. Maybe the heat was escaping thru the door. There is still the hole for the pilot tube but it is very small so there is a little air flow even if the door is completely closed. The new draft door will be very helpful in this aspect. Also I figured the burner would go out if it didn't get enough air, this never happened. I too would be interested to see pictures of other peoples flame and get their input on how high of temps they can get. I did have the thumb turn opened all the way as I thought this actually made it hotter I will try closing it tommorrow to see if it makes any difference. You know one thing I was just thinking about is your regulator. Dennis does not send a gas regulator with it does he? If not then that could be were people are getting some difference in flame/temp. If yours is adjustable (most I have seen have a cap over the adjustment screw), you could try raising the pressure a little. -=Jasen=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoliver Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Yeah, my regulator has no adjustment. The regulator on my turkey fryer does have an adjustment. So are you saying that if I buy an adjustable regulator I could release more pressure? Hence more heat? I take it its not a good idea to pry open the permanent cap on the non-adjustable regulator huh? I did readjust the valve attachment and output so it now sticks out futher and adjusted the thumb turn. This did make the flame more consistent but did not change the heat much. One thing I must add is that I believe my tank is almost empty so it probably is not at full pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoliver Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Ok, just looked online and I probably have a preset 10 psi regulator. I saw that you can get an adjustable 0-20psi regulator. I will look for one local but if anyone knows of a place please let me know. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted August 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Ok' date=' just looked online and I probably have a preset 10 psi regulator. I saw that you can get an adjustable 0-20psi regulator. I will look for one local but if anyone knows of a place please let me know. Thanks.[/quote'] Hmm, Dennis' burner looks like a low pressure burner (high pressure burners look like a cup); not to mention his can be converted to natural gas so that would have to be low pressure. That being the case low pressure is usually less than 1 PSI (measured in inches of water column - about 10"H2O for LP and 4"H2O for natural gas). High pressure is anywhere from 1PSI to 30PSI (or more). I have seen people hook up high pressure regulators to low pressure burners but they can be hard to light and difficult to stay lit until the get really hot. All the regulators I have are high pressure and I got them at Home Depot. They usually have a good selection of both. You might could make an adjustable 10 PSI regulate down low enough to work. But you might be better getting an adjustable low pressure regulator. You mentioned prying a cap off. Not seeing it, I cannot say, but my guess is it could be where an adjustment is. The ones I have seen, the adjustment is usually under a cap (see attached photo). -=Jasen=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoliver Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Well my high pressure regulator is working at 10 psi but I guess there would be no point in getting a 20 psi regulator if this is a low pressure burner, probably wouldn't make a difference and probably wouldn't even work. Maybe Dennis will chime in to let us know for sure. Another question, does a regulator have any safety benefits to it or is it simply to lower the pressure to make certain devices work properly? What would happen if you connected to tank without a regulator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
