Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comment

[Cookie]

I'm going to get a Guru or Stoker, lets see your votes on which one I should buy, and your comments as to why...

[Syzygies]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

I gave a fancy Guru to a friend, so I could use the most basic model. Turns the KK into an oven with a temperature dial, no more. Works for me, it is possible to over-think a problem.

Their new basic model has no dial, one bumps in 5 F increments either way from 225 F, and looks at the dome thermometer for confirmation and feedback. This would be fine if one is patient; the dome can be rather off from a probe near the meat, for hours until the cooker settles down. But in practice, one would likely plug in the new model, and never touch it, learning to cook at 225 F as a rule. Or bump a certain number of times at the start, according to personal preference, and again never look back.

The Stoker is for checking your cook from an iPhone (or the browser in a neighbor's study) if a quick get-together goes into extra innings. However, this happens all the time to us, and we just wing it, using the Guru. I duck out, and bring whatever was in the cooker back to the party.

[LarryR]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

I was faced with the same questions several years ago, here's the thread on my decision process and the feedback I got STOKER OR GURU. If you haven't found the AUTOMATIC TEMPERATURE CONTROL SYSTEMS forum on The Virtual Weber Bullet sight I highly recommend visiting it. There are hundreds of discussion in this forum relating to both units.

Ultimately I went with the Stoker primary because of it's native networking capabilities and Stokerlog (free software by Amir than enhances the Stoker experience). I enjoy tweeting my cooks, emailing guests updates on how our brisket is doing, the ability to adjust my cook from the golf course or while out running errands etc. Also Stokerlog IS the Cat's Meow. You can read more about Stokerlog HERE and download a copy to play with HERE, it has a simulation mode that you can run on your computer without being connected to a cooker to experience how she works in a cook. There are also some great videos HERE of how to setup Stoker.

A good friend of my has the Guru and he loves it. In fact, I've cooked side-by-side with my Stoker and the Guru preformed great. My buddy could care less about some of the networking and remote features of Stoker.

Something else worth pointing out is the Stoker expandability of the Stoker. If memory serves me correctly you can run up to 4 cookers and monitor something like 16 different pieces of meat. Don't ever see myself wanting to do that, however, I do have a WSM too and could see myself controlling two cookers and maybe monitoring up to 4 pieces of meat. I'm pretty sure Guru can run up to to cookers and monitor two pieces of meat, maybe more. If this is important to you I'd do more research on it, most could care less about this.

Lastly, if you go back about 12 months and prior you'll read about some customer service issues at Rock's BBQ (Stoker); in the past I think Rock's was staffed pretty thin. About 12 months ago this all seemed to change, haven't heard any complaints over the past year so this no longer seems to be an issue. I've spoken to the owner of Rock's on several occasions and he's all about customer service, once you got someone on the phone, gone above and beyond for several customers. I feel very comfortable endorsing him.

To summarize (this ended-up being much longer than I initially thought it would) I think it comes down to how far you want to take the technology side of your unit; both can run in a standalone set it and forget it mode but in my opinion, only the Stoker offers what I would call extended networking and remote functionality. The Doc has both units, would be interesting to get his thoughts on your question.

Hope this helps, oh and if you haven't guessed by now, my vote was for Stoker

[frans]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

Hi cookie you could also consider a procom 4 wireless up to 600 ft. But expensive, for your information Dennis has got one. The nakedwizz has reviewed all of them including the stoker.Hopes this helps a bit. Frans

[Loquitur]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

I love my Stoker because it allows me to monitor my cook from the Internet whether I'm in my house or out and about. I usually leave three or four computer screens on in different areas of my house when I'm doing a Stoker cook and I glance at them every time I walk by just to see that everything is as I expect. It's too cool!!!

Susan

[cruzmisl]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

They are both good but my vote is for the Guru. Another KK owner I know has a Stoker and the customer service is less than impressive. His broke and never could get replacement parts so it sits in a box. Guru has always been good with me with great service and fast shipping.

[jdbower]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

For me there's no choice, the Stoker wins hands down. The Ethernet interface is a must-have, and apparently the ultra-low temperature (100F or so) handling is much better than the Guru. You can also add infinite probes and cookers off a single unit which is nice if you've got multiple things you want to control. Regarding the service issues, I've never run into any issues and apparently those that have say things got much better once Rock got help. If you like to tinker and you're a techie the Stoker is a clear winner.

If you want something that just works without needing complicated network setups, either will do just fine and it's hard to go wrong with either. The Guru seems to have a slightly nicer user interface as a standalone unit, but the Stoker isn't that complicated and does not need a computer to work - it just gives you the option to hook it up to your computer if you decide to go that route.

[rorkin]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

What I have found with the Guru is that it in fact just teaches you how to set up the KK manualy.

By that I mean , when you set it to a temperature, it kind of backs you into a very very low air flow on the top

hat and closed on the bottom.. That is unless you want a much higher temp cook.. After you get an idea of the proper settings, it is pretty much set it and forget it.. I don't see the need for all the remote monotoring if the KK is set right and the Guru is doing its job. Just my opinion

[Cookie]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

I hear what you are saying Rorkin, point taken.

I think the attractive thing about the remote monitoring is the ability to see the temperature of the meat. I have visions of throwing a large chunk of something in the KK early on a Friday AM before I head to the office, to have the meat ready for a Friday night gathering with some friends. If its 3PM on Friday and the meat is humming along at a faster pace than expected, I could slow it down via the web, and vice versa, raise the temp to move things along if it isn't as close to being finished as it should be.

I'm thinking remote monitoring opens up some opportunities for longer cooks when you are going to be away from the KK for extended periods of time, and you are trying to hit a "hot off the grill" time for a party, etc.

I'm going home to the States next week for the holidays, already having KK withdraw.

[LATrapp]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

Does anyone know if there is a Apple/Mac version of the Stoker or Guru software? I couldn't find anything about it on their websites so I'm guessing not.

Also, does anyone ever have fire-safety concerns leaving their KK completely unattended for extended periods of time? I can understand your meat being swiped by a hungry neighbor, but any other worries?

[rorkin]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

Just remember that there is a large thermal mass in a KK and just lowering the set point on the control device has a very long cool down lag. While I have never left for hours at a time I have found with a guru that if I want to really change a temperature it takes some hands on the top damper.. Perhaps someone else has run a cook remotely can comment. I just think it sounds better on paper perhaps than in practice.. But that is just me, and I do not have a stoker just the wireless remote control Guru

[LarryR]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

Does anyone know if there is a Apple/Mac version of the Stoker or Guru software? I couldn't find anything about it on their websites so I'm guessing not.

Someone has one for the Stoker, it's currently in BETA

[Cookie]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

How about it Stoker users? Is it realistic to think you can change monitor a cook remotely and actually be able to impact the outcome of a cook once the KK is heat soaked? I'd be inclined to start at a slightly lower temp than if it were going to be a hands on cook, and then adjust the temp up as required after a few hours...

As for concerns about leaving the KK unattended? Mine sits on a rooftop with a ceramic tile floor and concrete walls, I don't worry about it (especially since Singapore is in the tropics, and I'm a 5 minute walk from the jungle--all plant life is greener than green, so you ain't gonna spark a forest fire). Mine is also secure with no access to neighbors, wandering kids, etc. If it were sitting on a wood deck or near a house with any kind of flammable construction, I'd think more than twice, brisket ain't worth the whole house (although I bet some here would disagree)...my Dad was a fireman for a long long time, he would lecture anyone here that has thoughts of leaving a KK unattended. He'd probably lecture me for leaving it in an open space on tile surrounded by concrete. Want me to ask him? (Joking)

Wishing you all a good weekend - I picked up a bone-in prime rib roast for a dinner party at our place on Sat....will be the first of its type on my KK, so looking forward to it...

[Loquitur]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

How about it Stoker users? Is it realistic to think you can change monitor a cook remotely and actually be able to impact the outcome of a cook once the KK is heat soaked?

I'd be inclined to start at a slightly lower temp than if it were going to be a hands on cook, and then adjust the temp up as required after a few hours...

Yes. There are no adjustments required to the Stoker to increase the pit temp. I use same top damper settings and fan whether I'm doing a 225 cook or a 400 deg cook. I believe the Guru works differently in that the Guru fan has manual settings which control the air flow through the fan so someone would need to be there to adjust the fan damper to raise the temperature any significant amount.

I start at least 25 deg less than my target temp because the Stoker senses the cold food temp and thinks the pit temp is cooler than it actually is, unnecessarily flaming the fire. It's simple to remotely raise the pit temp from your computer when the KK gets heat soaked and the food temp heats up.

C'mon Doc - you have both the Stoker and Guru. Whaddayathink he should get

Susan

[rorkin]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

Actually I really don't fool with the damper on the guru fan much .. What it tends to do is change the temp cycle range . But with the Guru, I find that it takes a top setting that is virtually closed.. Perhaps 1/8 of a turn to achieve a 225 cook.. You can run it up from there with the guru temp setting but unless you also adjust the Top damper a little you will never get it up to 350. Of course this on my KK which is a Gen 1 and is probably not as tight as newer ones. But if I had it set to 250 and the temp started to creep up I would be surprised if I could bring it down just using the remote control. I use the procom 4

I think the principles of operation on the Stoker and Guru are the same. Heat too low.. fan on.. Heat to high .. fan off.. THe guru actually pulses the fan and lengthens or shortens the fan time..

That being said.. Once adjusted I have done overnight cooks (much like being away).. with the temp holding 5-6 degree range. Just start with enough charcoal

[mguerra]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

When using the Guru for a 225 or 250 cook, Rorkin is correct that you will barely crack the top vent. Having done a multitude of these cooks is why my damper gets tarred up, by the way. The Guru fan nozzle has an adjustable orifice, for a low temp cook I only open it about 25% or less, if I am going to leave the cooker unattended immediately after starting the fire. Any larger and your temp can overshoot. If I am hanging around, I will open the orifice to 100%, set the temp to 180, and then when it hits 180, close down the orifice to 25% or less and re-set the temp to 225. This just gets it up to temp faster. The Guru orifice stays open all the time whether or not the fan is running. If you leave it 100% open, even with the top damper barely cracked your temps can be hard to keep down. The Stoker orifice is completely closed when the fan is not running, you get less overshoot and a little more precise temp control. Just set the temp you want and forget it. The Stoker button pushing is kind of weird, you have to push the right buttons in the right order to adjust things. I can't memorize it so I keep the little algorithm diagram handy. The Guru buttons are a little easier to navigate. They both work great, one is not really "better" than the other. The CyberQ is supposed to be interfaceable to your computer and the internet, like the Stoker,but I never figured it out.

[Loquitur]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

The Guru orifice stays open all the time whether or not the fan is running. If you leave it 100% open' date=' even with the top damper barely cracked your temps can be hard to keep down. The Stoker orifice is completely closed when the fan is not running, you get less overshoot and a little more precise temp control. Just set the temp you want and forget it..... [/quote']

That's very interesting, Doc. I guess the Stoker orifice closing when the fan shuts off is the reason the temperature drops when the fan goes off. I enjoy watching it on Stokerlog - the red fan indicators going on to show the fan is running and the temp rising to one degree over the set temp, then the red fan indicators turning off and the temp falling to one degree under the set temp, and then it happening all over again. Somebody help me - I must be going mad!!!

[Loquitur]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

The Stoker button pushing is kind of weird' date=' you have to push the right buttons in the right order to adjust things. I can't memorize it so I keep the little algorithm diagram handy. [/quote']

This is true but it turns out the right, left, up, down sequence for the Stoker box is exactly the same as for my Lexicon home theater processor. I cursed it for years because it was a huge deal where I had to take out a manual and follow step by step instructions every time I made the slighest change to the processing options. I finally bit the bullet and figured it out. Now its automatic and I just know whether to go right or left or up or down without thinking about it, whether I'm on the Stoker or my processor. I don't want to scare anybody with this info. Actually, the only thing I take off the Stoker box itself is the IP address, which my router changes periodically. Everything else I adjust or set on the computer and don't need to work with the Stoker box or the sequence.

[LarryR]

Re: Do I buy a Guru or Stoker? And why... Please vote/comm

I can't memorize it so I keep the little algorithm diagram handy. The Guru buttons are a little easier to navigate.

Are you talking about setting your pit and meat temp? Come on Doc, you've got to be super bright, this is easy stuff, menu, temp, etc. etc. I'll set my temps on my Stoker, laptop or my SmartPhone. Easy peasy lemon, well you know the rest.

The CyberQ is supposed to be interfaceable to your computer and the internet' date=' like the Stoker,but I never figured it out.[/quote']

Last I saw this (and it could have changed) it was less then elegant. You needed to actually have a computer connected to the Guru device. That was a deal killer for many as they didn't want to have a computer next to their cooker. Also, if memory serves me correctly their interface was a bit behind Stokerlog, again, this all could have changed.

I think the attractive thing about the remote monitoring is the ability to see the temperature of the meat. I have visions of throwing a large chunk of something in the KK early on a Friday AM before I head to the office, to have the meat ready for a Friday night gathering with some friends. If its 3PM on Friday and the meat is humming along at a faster pace than expected, I could slow it down via the web, and vice versa, raise the temp to move things along if it isn't as close to being finished as it should be.

I'm thinking remote monitoring opens up some opportunities for longer cooks when you are going to be away from the KK for extended periods of time, and you are trying to hit a "hot off the grill" time for a party, etc.

This is precisely why I got the Stoker, I LOVE being able to be at the movies with my daughter or at the golf course, store etc. receive texts or emails of my cooks (including graphs), be able to dial in from my phone and adjust the cook if necessary. Or, I just use my SmartPhone as a "pendent" (what Guru calls theirs) with unlimited range, whether I'm standing next to my cooker or miles away I can just refresh the browser on my cell phone and see my cooker stats.

The coolness factor is what I really love, I mean let's face it, in additional to the KK being a cooking machine we also bought it for it's looks and WE ALL enjoy introducing friends to it, hearing the ohs and ahs, telling the story of where they're from, how much they weigh, how some guy cooked 85 hours on it etc. Come on, I know I'm not the only one who's held court in front of their KK with a glass of wine boring the hell out of people with this type of info? Anyway, adding to the coolness factor I have Stokerlog send email alerts to our dinner/party guests showing them the progress of the cook, most love it although I think some think I'm a dork for doing it. Also Twitter the cook is fun too. For me it enhances the enjoyment I get out of my KK. Fun stuff.