Bottom Round (sv128=10h) KK 7 Jul 2015 bryan *

[bryan]

B-Rst KK (sv128=10h) KK 7 Jul 2015 bryan *

Bottom Round Rst
Salt and pepper liberal
1 clove garlic thinly sliced
6 sprig thyme caraway

Liberally season roast w/salt and pepper:
Arrange garlic and thyme on roast and place in bag. Seal.
Cook in water bath 10h at 128F   53.3C:
Allow roast to come to room temp, drain, and chill.
Brown on hot grill:
(Idea is to get a good crust without cooking meat any further)
(that's why I process from cold)

COOKED
7 Jul 2015:
(sv140=10h)
Needs to tenderise more
Try 12h

[MacKenzie]

Sounds interesting, Bryan, if it were me I'd jack that heat up a tad to maybe 132F. as well as extending the time. I have read that granulated garlic is better than fresh for long cooks but maybe this is not considered a long cook.

[bryan]

Sounds interesting, Bryan, if it were me I'd jack that heat up a tad to maybe 132F. as well as extending the time. I have read that granulated garlic is better than fresh for long cooks but maybe this is not considered a long cook.

See my COOKED above. Sorry my bad. Just copied notes from my cookbook.

I feel very uncomfortable challenging sv recipe times. But......... My head tells me when beef is 140 through and through it's basically cooked. So why 2-3 days?

Seems the temp is for doness and the time governs texture with a very fine line between outstanding and mushy. If so maybe we should experment some.

[tony b]

From my SV cookbook tables for Flank Steak:

 

Medium Rare:  131F for 2 - 12 hours

Medium Rare (tender): 131F for 1 - 2 days

 

Medium; 140F for 2 - 12 hours

Medium (tender): 140F for 1 - 2 days

 

So, based upon the above, it seems clear that the extra time is to alter texture and not doneness. 

[bryan]

I see were your assumption is clear.

131 vs 140

2-12h's vs 1-2d's

 

I see 4 cooks.

I want to see 1 cook.

Is he saying I cook my flank steak at:

1- Medium Rare:  131F for 2 - 12 hours

2- Medium Rare (tender): 131F for 1 - 2 days

3- Medium; 140F for 2 - 12 hours

                     or

4- Medium (tender): 140F for 1 - 2 days

I'm only going to cook one steak.

The recipe writer is telling me. It takes 2-12h to cook the product. In addition it will take me somewhere between 1-2 days to get it tender.

I think a recipe should be more specific than 2-12h or 1-2 days. To me this is just not acceptable instruction. It is like saying throw a $30 steak in a bucket of water and take it out sometime in the next couple of days.

Thanks Tony, Glad it is not just me that sees a problem with these contradictions.

What better product temps and times have you found.

One temp and one time for tough cuts that come out like quality steak.

That's a recipe I can cook with.

[MacKenzie]

Yes, the temp chosen will give the steak the look of a steak that is rare, medium, or well done although the meat will be cooked through in all cases if it is in the bath for the correct time. The longer the time the more tender the steak will be within reason. Meaning you can't SV a rib steak for 1-2 days and expect the texture to be good although since flank steak is on the tough side you can. That's my 2 cents;)

[bryan]

Yes, the temp chosen will give the steak the look of a steak that is rare, medium, or well done although the meat will be cooked through in all cases if it is in the bath for the correct time. The longer the time the more tender the steak will be within reason. Meaning you can't SV a rib steak for 1-2 days and expect the texture to be good although since flank steak is on the tough side you can. That's my 2 cents;)

Am I on the right track here? What sous vide recipes need is recipes that state exact temp and times.  Two hours to two or more days is no way to handle the science of cooking.

 

We like the Komodo Kamada for its ability to cook with dependable control of temp and time giving absolute control over the product.

Sous Vide is capable of such results.

All recipes are based on control of temp and time.  Today sous vide recipes are all over the map.

[tony b]

You're missing the point. One of the beauties of SV cooking is that it is so forgiving; you don't have to set a timer and wait for the bell to go off to say "Done," then scramble to prevent it from overcooking. You have a range of time, which allows flexibility to plan the dinner on most foods. Some things are a bit more precise, such as seafood and eggs, where the time does matter more, but for almost all meats, you can just set it up and serve it when you're ready. Hence, the ranges given in the book for the Flank Steak. (btw - those are 4 different cooking options - pick 1.)

 

How many BBQ cooks have you done where you think you know how long it will take to get done, work backwards to a "start time," only to get to suppertime and it's not done yet? That's why most of us have learned to start way early and hold food by wrapping in towels and putting it in coolers until serving time. SV cooking is doing the same thing, it's holding the temp for you until you're ready to serve it; +/- an hour or two doesn't usually matter at all. Can you say that about cooking in a conventional oven or BBQ grill? NO, you can't. Why? Because you are cooking the food at 2 to 3 times the temperature that you want the food to finish at, so time is very important, otherwise you severely overcook the food if you don't remove it from the heat source promptly.

 

As far as KK cooking goes, there is a lot of flexibility in cooking temperatures and we don't cook primarily based on time, but final internal temperature of the meat. For example on beef briskets - some folks like lo & slo (which is actually a range of temps and not a precise value), while others do hot & fast, or go Texas Crutch. There's no one "right answer." There are just too many variables involved in BBQing for scientific precision - meat quality (fat and moisture content, toughness), food shape/thickness, environmental conditions (windy, wet, cold), energy content of the charcoal, etc. That's why great BBQ is such an art, not a science. I'm an engineer, and will always think like one, but it's not essential to my being a good cook. At least, in my not so humble opinion!

[bryan]

tony b - Thanks for your opinion