Fetzervalve Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Choppy, I read here somewhere you are a veteran of "tons" of brisket. The Mrs. just brought one home, now it's time for you to lay it on me. All your secrets - give it up, the works......please Anyone else can jump in also. BTW - she drug home a chuck roll also, I think I'll be doing them together- any advice is welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Re: PChop - Brisket Choppy, I read here somewhere you are a veteran of "tons" of brisket. The Mrs. just brought one home, now it's time for you to lay it on me. All your secrets - give it up, the works......please Anyone else can jump in also. BTW - she drug home a chuck roll also, I think I'll be doing them together- any advice is welcome. PC is not just the pork man, but the beef man too! I will lay any small kernels I have on you till the big man arrives! I know nothing about the beef roll, but I have had pretty good luck with some briskets. At the time I sold my last grill, I had people at work begging for my briskets. Just for info, there are two cuts most people deal with - packers cut (whole brisket - flat and tips) and just the flat. A lot of people prefer the entire packers cut since it has more fat. Also people check out the tenderness before they buy, just hold it at one end and see how limp it is - hahaha - this is one time that it is good to have limp meat - hehe. Some folks try to decipher whether it is the right or left side, but I think the first test is more important. Trim that bad boy to a uniform fat cap, oil and season it with your favorite season (night before is nice). Toss it on a 240-245 degree KK until it peaks 185-190 on the flat, remove and cut the flat from the tips. Wrap flat in tinfoil (laying some loose fat on top) and place in cooler filled with towels to keep warm and rest. Place the tips back on the grill till they are tender 190 - you can bump up the heat some here. Remove and place in the tinfoil / cooler for a few hours to rest also. Anyway, my 2 cents. If I am not mistaken, somewhere on that same site you posted yesterday, cookshack.com, if a very good breakdown on brisket cooking along with that brining link you posted! Ok, I found it ( http://www.cookshack.com/index.php?cust ... mokin_Okie) -=Jasen=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetzervalve Posted November 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Coolio, thanks, I had only checked out the brining, not the rest of that site. The brisket is only the flat, they (the meat man) cut off the fat (I haven't seen it yet) but she called me and they put the fat in with it (tied it on).. I'll have to see what I have when I get home. I've read about people cooking a butt over a brisket, do you see any problem doing it with a chuck roll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchop Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Miss a day, miss a lifetime... sorry, been uncharacteristically busy today... don't know much about the flats. all my experience is in packer cut whole brisket if i had to wing it, i'd go indirect 250 about 1.5hr/pound. rub down real good and cover the top with about a pound of bacon to keep it moist, since you are missing the beast's natural fat cap. i would also add water to your drip pan to keep things on the moist side. i am not a big fan of the brisket in general, but i've done many of them. REALLY not a fan of the flat... good luck! brisket is ornery! i would also probably pull it short of the 190 mark, say at 180-185 and wrap in hd saran and hot box that sucker in a cooler with some old towels or whatnot. better chance of keeping it moist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetzervalve Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 So, Chop, how do you see the difference between putting the fat back on ( I have it, it has just been cut off) and putting bacon on it? Is it more of a flavor issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetzervalve Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 What's this? Here is the brisket? As you recall the butcher took the liberty to cut off the fat, but included it (no charge!) I open it up and it has this flap, what's up with that? Which is the top, should I cut it off, what is a mother to do?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Wow, I would have to 'Slap my butcher up' if he completely raped my brisket of all the fat like that! He did cut it way cleaner than it should be as no matter how you are cooking it, more fat than what he left is needed. But you might be able to get away with cooking it with the fat laid back on top. I would more than likely cook this one faster and hotter as it will not take too low and slow without fat. Maybe even pull it after it hits 140, wrap it in tinfoil and put it back on to finish (most folks go with the concept that no more smoke is absorbed after 140 - if you want more smoke flavor, cool the meat to almost freezing before placing on the grill). Another option for this situation is called larding which you can do with bacon or left over fat. I prefer this to laying fat on top as once the meat start to cook on the outside, I do not believe any more moisture can get into the meat, so I prefer to lard the meat and put in on the inside. Here is a typical larding needle ( http://www.sausagemaker.com/index.asp?P ... ProdID=150 ). Though I realize this does not really help you now, you could get creative and come up with something that will work in it's stead till you can get your hands on one. BTW, that is a great all around website to order anything pertaining to cooking, sausage making, jerky, any cured meats, and meat prep! -=Jasen=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanny Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Great, Jasen, he's a victim of brisket rape. But you didn't answer the QUESTION!! What's the flappy thing? Does he just have a limp brisket (isn't that a rock band?)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Well, I cannot see the grain of the meat to tell if that is still part of the flat or if the butcher just included some of the tip with it. Oh yeah, as far as top and bottom go, that is your choice. Most people subscribe to the theory that the fat drips down into the meat and should be on top. While others think the fat does not actually get into the meat when it is outside and would rather it protect the meat from the heat source thereby placing it down. So you'll just have to join you own camp for that - hehe. I think it is a little of both. I think the fat will render a little outside, but once the cooking has begun and the meat seals, no more moisture will seep in (which is why I like the larding method). I also tend to like direct verses indirect, so the fat protected the meat from the heat source is also a very good idea. See, the mind is a terrible thing - so many choices to make. Everything clear as mud now? Sorry Sanny, Limp Brisket is a good thing in this situation! Now give your dog a Limp Bizkit- hehe! -=Jasen=- You know, this is a great thread for the technique area. When everyone finishes posting to it, I am gonna move it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetzervalve Posted November 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 DJ, The "grain" appears to be running in different directions, (flap to flat)does that mean that the "flap" is part of the point? Signed, brisket virgin.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 DJ, The "grain" appears to be running in different directions, (flap to flat)does that mean that the "flap" is part of the point? Signed, brisket virgin.... The flat should be all one muscle. There is usually a fat line between the flat and the tips (which is where you normally separate the two). I am trying to find a good pic to show. I am used to seeing the brisket flat grains all go in the same direction (sometimes it contains small portions of surrounding cuts if the butcher missed the mark and that could explain some grain irregularities). Also, if the butcher slices off a portion of it while trimming and it gets flipped outward, the grain structure would differ. I am gonna guess all of what you have is the flat, but it is just not a grocery store neat trim flat like the pic below. Notice the tip does get smaller towards the tip end; some butchers just trim that neat. -=Jasen=- Flat Trimmed Brisket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchop Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 sorry; this is probably a dead issue by now BUT... i think what we are looking at here is an entire brisket that has had the center fat removed! in this case, i think your butcher has done you a great favor! while the fat cap on the surface of the brisket is desireable, there is a layer of fat running between the flat and the point that is NASTY! does not render completely and is full of big ol' veins and other unattractive nasties!! IF I WERE PRESENTED WITH THIS PIECE OF MEAT i would have put the bacon in the center between the point and flat, flipped the point back onto the flat (that limp piece you are holding!) like a hat, and replaced the NICE fat from the fat cap back on the top. NORMALLY, i do my butts and briskets fat down! i know this is anathema, but i have found that the lean meat drys out on the bottom when i do fat side up, since i don't put water in a drip pan underneath. rather than use water (i have my reasons!), i just flip the meat fat side down and when i pull it out of the cooker at the end, all is good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twharton Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Porkchop's Reason's NORMALLY, i do my butts and briskets fat down! ... (i have my reasons!) Would you be willing to share those reasons oh wise one? I'm trying to gather as much info before delivery of my KK in about 3 weeks. Also just for laughs most of you know I first stumbled across the brand X kooker a month ago. They were going to 'rush' tile samples to me. Well I suspect I'll have a few cooks under my belt before (if ever) that happens. Their probably trolling this forum but then probably not that smart. Thanks again for steering me in the right direction Porkshop. twharton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchop Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 well, like i shared above, it protects my meat from the direct effects of the heat. even with an indirect setup, the bottom of the brisket would dry out on me when i cook fat up. using water in a drip pan, if you are using a significant amount (and you kinda have to on an overnight) will act like a heat sink as well as keeping your meat all steamy. what happens is that, as the water evaporates/boils off, the "heatsink" starts to shrink, and your temps creep up during the night (while i'm in the sack!). if you're not awake to babysit and add more water, you wake up to a significantly different temp. so, i don't use water. the thing with brisket, while it is fairly lean, it has enough internal fat and (more importantly) collagen to keep the meat moist without the "dripping down effect" that fat-side-up proponents claim. plus, with the fat side down, the grate kinda "holds on" to some of it as you remove the brisket from the grate. so it kinda cleans the top for you, too. if you are planning a packer trim brisket, make sure you clean it right before you serve it. that fatty layer that separates the point from the flat needs to be removed before serving. my approach on this; after you let your brisket smoke for 14+ hours, wrap in HD saran or foil, and hotbox for at least a couple hours. you can hot box for a really long time with just a styro cooler and some old towels or any kinda batten (i'm talking like 7-8 hours!). when you pull that brisket for serving, remove from foil (with saran, it's much easier; you just cut it off!), and the fat cap should just slide off with a swipe or two from your hand (wear an insulated glove covered with a latex glove for this), and then take that same insulated hand and find where the point meets the flat. you should be able to slide your hand right between the two and pull the point off the flat. from here, use a long carving knife, and with the blade held at an angle, scrape the top of the flat with the grain to remove any fat left over. THEN find the big fat vein running with the grain and cut it out with a v-type cut. NOW your flat is ready for slicing! if you can, take that point and throw back on the smoker (if not, a casserole dish in the oven) and let go for a couple more hours til the thing is very soft. btw, the point can be put back on rightside up. same deal; the heat helps that bottom part (with the "nasty" fat!) to get rid of some of that fat and make the bottom easier to clean. then, clean all the fat off the bottom and chop for chop beef sandwiches. i like to leave the fat cap on for chopping. it should be very liquid-y and soft and mix right in after chopping. after you chop it all up, run your hand (insulated glove!) thru the chopped beef and "squish" it a few times til it gets to the consistency you want. the chopped beef is my FAVE of the two, so save it till you clear out all the suckers with the sliced! sorry for the long post. would take me all of 5 minutes to actually SHOW you. actually explaning it is a pain! Insulated Glove: here's what we used to use for cutting/cleaning brisket back in "the day"... we would "fly" with these big ol' cutlass size knives that were SHARP like crazy; the kevlar kept you from losing a finger! since they were a knit mesh, you also needed a latex glove over it to keep the hot fat from seeping in! great gloves! http://unitedglove.thomasnet.com/item/kevlar/industrial-weight-kevlar-knit/ga326?&forward=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twharton Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Thanks for taking the time for the great information. twharton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetzervalve Posted November 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Re: Porkchop's Reason's NORMALLY' date=' i do my butts and briskets fat down! ... (i have my reasons!)[/quote'] Also just for laughs most of you know I first stumbled across the brand X kooker a month ago. They were going to 'rush' tile samples to me. Well I suspect I'll have a few cooks under my belt before (if ever) that happens. Their probably trolling this forum but then probably not that smart. twharton TW - I am still waiting for my samples also.... They were "sent" (by untraceable means) and "lost" - then "sent" again.... still waiting - BTW, I did get the deposit reversed through my credit card. In the mean time, my family has enjoyed several "best ever" (their words) KK creations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetzervalve Posted November 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Here is the subject after it had napped overnight. I did foil it over 140 (shortly after this photo (DJ's idea) and rode it up to 185 - pulled/wrapped and let it sit overnight (10PM - 7AM). Total cook time was around 14hrs. It was my first, so I don't have a yard stick, I would like more smoke flavor, I will add more chunks next time. All in all, I'm marginally satisfied considering the rape it endured at hands of the butcher! Next time, we won't be settling for anything less than a packer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer John Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Man it's lookn' good. So was it tender? By the way John Edwards sent me pictures of my new cover today. Looks like it will hold up to the snow, rain, ice, and every other thing Mother Nature can throw at me. Thanks for helping him on the measurements. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetzervalve Posted November 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Man it's lookn' good. So was it tender? By the way John Edwards sent me pictures of my new cover today. Looks like it will hold up to the snow, rain, ice, and every other thing Mother Nature can throw at me. Thanks for helping him on the measurements. John No problem on the measurements, now I have to decide on a color -(and wait to make sure yours fits) Was it tender.... I've only had brisket a couple of times (Famous Dave's), and it has been a while. I'd say yes, but probably not up to Dave's at this point. I'll wait a while and try again, I sucksealed (Food Saver) some for later. I just found this finished picture. I dumped most of a jar of my sister-in-law's home brewed bbq sauce on it (in the foil) for the last 3-4 hours of so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeDJ16 Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Hey, looks pretty darn good to me, especially for a first brisket and a assaulted cut of meat - hehe (I am still on the opposite side of the fence then PC over that - but that's what opinions are for). My first one was really dry. So did you slice it up or serve it chipped also? I always slice up the flat and serve the tips chipped. -=Jasen=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
