Roasters

[Pequod]

I know there are some coffee geeks here (ahem @FotonDrv, I'm looking at you). I'm starting to look into options for trying my hand at home roasting. Have been looking at the Behmor, but then my KK "buy the best" instincts kick in and tell me to shoot higher. That's where the waters start to muddy a bit. What would you suggest I look at for good all around roasting options?

The facts:

• I'm a roasting noob, but wanting to learn. I understand about first crack and second crack. And then things can catch fire. 
• I do both brewed coffee -- French press and Chemex -- and espresso using my PID'd and fine tuned Gaggia Classic. It gets the job done for now. Will probably upgrade at some point. 
• I like City and Full City roasts for brewed coffee - usually buy from my local microroaster (GREAT stuff) and he's inspired me to give this a go. I like Redbird for espresso - maybe Full City+ to Vienna range?

That's all for now. Off to post questions about BBQ on a pizza forum, and pizza questions on a coffee forum. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Pequod

[MacKenzie]

I have the Hottop roaster and have had it for many years, since I bought mine they have developed programmable models. I did have trouble with mine in the beginning but they were excellent to deal with and the problem was fixed and I've no trouble since then. I would buy from them again.

[Phred]

I used one of the original Behmors for several years to roast for espresso and finally upgraded last fall to the 500 gram North coffee roaster from Mill City Roasters (https://millcityroasters.com/shop/coffee-roasters/500g-1lb-gas-coffee-roaster/). It's more expensive than either the Behmor or Hottop and so might not be the right starter roaster (you may not enjoy roasting or might be dissatisfied with your results). The Behmor was ideal for me as a starter but eventually I got tired of the amount of time it took to roast different beans to go into blends (the Behmor requires one hour between batches).

The North gives much more control over the roast (especially using Artisan software which is free), has a good support forum and good support from the importer, and allows for back-to-roasts, resulting in much less time required to roast each week. The roaster is made in China, like many these days, but has been trouble free. If you go through a pound or two of coffee a week, I think it's one of the better options and values out there. The end result is a step up from the Behmor with lots of room for further improvement as you refine your process and skill. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions.


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[Pequod]

7 hours ago, Phred said:

I used one of the original Behmors for several years to roast for espresso and finally upgraded last fall to the 500 gram North coffee roaster from Mill City Roasters (https://millcityroasters.com/shop/coffee-roasters/500g-1lb-gas-coffee-roaster/). It's more expensive than either the Behmor or Hottop and so might not be the right starter roaster (you may not enjoy roasting or might be dissatisfied with your results). The Behmor was ideal for me as a starter but eventually I got tired of the amount of time it took to roast different beans to go into blends (the Behmor requires one hour between batches).

The North gives much more control over the roast (especially using Artisan software which is free), has a good support forum and good support from the importer, and allows for back-to-roasts, resulting in much less time required to roast each week. The roaster is made in China, like many these days, but has been trouble free. If you go through a pound or two of coffee a week, I think it's one of the better options and values out there. The end result is a step up from the Behmor with lots of room for further improvement as you refine your process and skill. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions.


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Good comments and interesting roaster -- definitely looks to be in the "KK" equivalent class, but you're right it probably isn't the right place to start.

Interesting too that you were able to use the Behmor for espresso. My (less than thorough) reading on the Behmor is that you have a very limited window after second crack before the whole thing goes up in flames. Maybe exaggerating just a bit, but my understanding is that the cooldown is internal, and so it coasts a bit once you punch the cool button and is easy to overshoot. Can you do a Vienna roast with a Behmor? 

12 hours ago, MacKenzie said:

I have the Hottop roaster and have had it for many years, since I bought mine they have developed programmable models. I did have trouble with mine in the beginning but they were excellent to deal with and the problem was fixed and I've no trouble since then. I would buy from them again.

The Hottop has definitely crossed my eyeline. Maybe a bit more pricey than I'd hoped, but possibly the right answer.

I'd rather buy the right solution once than to buy a "starter" roaster, only to replace it with KK class stuff two years later. The Behmor seems like an inexpensive way to get started, but my gut tells me that I'd be buying a Hottop or similar shortly after.

 

[Phred]

I prefer a Northern Italian style of Espresso which is a lighter roast, stopping before or just after 2nd crack. The Behmor could do that and could get close to a Full Vienna when the quartz elements were new (dark beans with oil on the surface). The newer version has better control but you're still roasting a bit blind with little control over various elements ( temp, airflow, drum speed).

I think the Behmor is a great starter machine-better than poppers or air roasters if you want some body in your roasts and greater capacity. The downside is the slow cooling ( which led to the nickname "Bakemore"). I combatted that by opening the door and using a shop vac to suck out the hot air.

I never could justify the cost given the limitations of the Hottop, Quest, or Huky. So I waited and took the bigger step up to the North (after 8-10 years, I don't recall offhand how long I've had the Behmore).

The Quest, Hottop, and Huky are all viable alternatives. There's lots of info on them in the home roasting section of homebarista.com

Or you could be real trailblazer and figure out how to do a bbq roast on the KK!

I hope some of this helps,
Fred


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[Phred]

It's home-barista.com
Another option is the Gene Cafe.
Fred


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[Pequod]

6 hours ago, Phred said:

I prefer a Northern Italian style of Espresso which is a lighter roast, stopping before or just after 2nd crack. The Behmor could do that and could get close to a Full Vienna when the quartz elements were new (dark beans with oil on the surface). The newer version has better control but you're still roasting a bit blind with little control over various elements ( temp, airflow, drum speed).

I think the Behmor is a great starter machine-better than poppers or air roasters if you want some body in your roasts and greater capacity. The downside is the slow cooling ( which led to the nickname "Bakemore"). I combatted that by opening the door and using a shop vac to suck out the hot air.

I never could justify the cost given the limitations of the Hottop, Quest, or Huky. So I waited and took the bigger step up to the North (after 8-10 years, I don't recall offhand how long I've had the Behmore).

The Quest, Hottop, and Huky are all viable alternatives. There's lots of info on them in the home roasting section of homebarista.com

Or you could be real trailblazer and figure out how to do a bbq roast on the KK!

I hope some of this helps,
Fred


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Yes it does, thank you. Have been studying up at home-barista. The Huky seems to have a somewhat rabid following and have been digging more into that. Not outrageously priced either. Have a few months (at least) before I can pull the trigger due to having bought my second KK earlier this year, but this discussion helps point me in the right direction. More research to be done!

[FotonDrv]

On 6/28/2017 at 4:24 PM, Pequod said:

I know there are some coffee geeks here (ahem @FotonDrv, I'm looking at you). I'm starting to look into options for trying my hand at home roasting. Have been looking at the Behmor, but then my KK "buy the best" instincts kick in and tell me to shoot higher. That's where the waters start to muddy a bit. What would you suggest I look at for good all around roasting options?

The facts:

• I'm a roasting noob, but wanting to learn. I understand about first crack and second crack. And then things can catch fire. 
• I do both brewed coffee -- French press and Chemex -- and espresso using my PID'd and fine tuned Gaggia Classic. It gets the job done for now. Will probably upgrade at some point. 
• I like City and Full City roasts for brewed coffee - usually buy from my local microroaster (GREAT stuff) and he's inspired me to give this a go. I like Redbird for espresso - maybe Full City+ to Vienna range?

That's all for now. Off to post questions about BBQ on a pizza forum, and pizza questions on a coffee forum. 

I started roasting on a Quest a few years ago, tried a Behmor at the time before I bought Quest and decided that the heat management and the Chaff management was not optimal.

 

The Quest is controllable for time and temperature and once I upgrade to a North 1K Gas roaster I will happily be using the Quest.

 

I modified it a bit (blackened drum, cut out the louvers in the back so the fan works better, insulated the drum with 2 layers in insulation and then put good temp probes in it and last but certainly not least is a new drum that is now standard issue for Quest with perforations in the rear. 

 

I am getting a North Gas 1K later this year since I want to roast a pound of green beans easily.  You probably know that running a roaster at 75% of stated capacity is optimal roast size to be able to control the roast effectively.  The chaff management and and roast control is much better on the North 1K with variable drum speed, air flow control and easy to disassemble.

 

 

[Pequod]

5 hours ago, FotonDrv said:

I started roasting on a Quest a few years ago, tried a Behmor at the time before I bought Quest and decided that the heat management and the Chaff management was not optimal.

 

The Quest is controllable for time and temperature and once I upgrade to a North 1K Gas roaster I will happily be using the Quest.

 

I modified it a bit (blackened drum, cut out the louvers in the back so the fan works better, insulated the drum with 2 layers in insulation and then put good temp probes in it and last but certainly not least is a new drum that is now standard issue for Quest with perforations in the rear. 

 

I am getting a North Gas 1K later this year since I want to roast a pound of green beans easily.  You probably know that running a roaster at 75% of stated capacity is optimal roast size to be able to control the roast effectively.  The chaff management and and roast control is much better on the North 1K with variable drum speed, air flow control and easy to disassemble.

 

 

Seems all roads lead to some model of North! I'll have to think on this a bit more. Given finite funds, I'd probably be better off upgrading my espresso machine to something high end -- maybe a lever -- before attempting roast profiles I'd not be able to differentiate in the cup. More to think about. Thanks!

[FotonDrv]

Pequod, what you really need to figure out is how large a batch of roasted coffee you want per roasting cycle.  That will tell you what roaster will be in your ballpark.

The Gene Cafe' is a fluid bed roaster that tumbles the beans as it roasts.  The Sonofresco is a fluid bed that just uses air pressure and volume of air to tumble the beans. 

The 500g North will easily roast a pound of green which is more like 12 oz. of roasted but there is no capability to roast more at one time AND it has more things to dismantle to clean it and there is no drum speed control AND no stirring arms if that means anything to you.

There are other ways to spend $$ in the espresso game and from someone who has tried a lot of gear I must say that the grinder is the key to good espresso provided you have some sort of temperature management in the espresso machine.

Here is my current setup, and a couple of previous ones.  You will note the grinders changed along the way too.  The wood cooking stoves are when I was using a Chemex, a Spong for grinding and buying store roasted beans...  I should have roasted my own then.

The woodstoves were when I lived without grid power for 20 years so there were not many espresso options except the Moka Pot and a Chemex for drip.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by FotonDrv
added text

[Phred]

Good info and suggestions from FotonDrv for you.  I would only clarify that the 500 gm North does have a drum speed control (as well as air).  The lack of stirring arms is true but not much of an issue for me given the smaller amount of beans being dumped and the ability to just stir them with a hand or spoon in the cooling tray.  The fan does a good job of cooling them down quickly.  For the limited amount we consume each week, I couldn't justify the extra $1,500 for the 1 kgm roaster even though it does offer some advantages.  I may use those savings to upgrade my grinder--it is the most surprisingly important component in the overall mix of equipment.

[FotonDrv]

North must have added the drum speed feature, which I think is nice because besides making roasts more uniform for any given weight of charge you can crank up the speed a couple of seconds before you dump the beans as well as increasing chaff blower to get the beans more clean.  The Quest only has the fan control and no drum speed, unless you mod it to do so.

Do the new 500g  North's have the heat/chaff tube on the outside of the shell making less to dismantle to service the roaster?

And you are correct in that the grinder is the key to it all

 

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by FotonDrv
added text

[Phred]

Yes, the heat/chaff tube is on the outside. Regular cleaning is a shop vac to clean out the area around the burners and the chaff tube (which has a hinged door to allow easy access). Mine is still pretty new so I haven't opened it up yet to clean the fan blades, lubricate the drum shaft, etc. Those steps are in my near future and I imagine I'll have a few choice words for the machine at that point.

 

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[Pequod]

@FotonDrv, do you no longer have the motorized HG-1? I read about it at H-B. Do you still do brewed coffee or just espresso now?

I currently use a Pharos grinder for espresso with my PID'd Gaggia Classic. I use a Chemex and French Press for brewed coffee. For those I use a Capresso Infinity, but finding the grind distribution out of whack, so am looking to upgrade. Was considering a Lido 3. I typically brew 40-50g of beans at a time, so smaller manual grinders won't do. 

[FotonDrv]

9 hours ago, Phred said:

Yes, the heat/chaff tube is on the outside. Regular cleaning is a shop vac to clean out the area around the burners and the chaff tube (which has a hinged door to allow easy access). Mine is still pretty new so I haven't opened it up yet to clean the fan blades, lubricate the drum shaft, etc. Those steps are in my near future and I imagine I'll have a few choice words for the machine at that point.

 

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That is good to know!  Maybe MillCity should update the photos of that 500g roaster.  What impressed me was the speed with which my questions were answered and the no nonsense manner in the way they answered.

And Pequod, yes, I still have the motorized HG-1 and love it.  So smooth and consistent that I wonder why the Lyn/Weber team did not do it originally.  I just wish I had the new style grind adjustment pegs and not the screw/knob to tighten.  The Monolith's have a capture style tightening collar very much like, the Titus grinder, and that style works very well too and Titus was the first I know of to do it that way.  Titus is a great grinder but the cost is astronomical, I had a modified Versalab but the Titus is light years better.

For brew/drip I use a Baratza Forte' BG.

Here is my traveling grinder, a Lido 2, and my traveling French Press and the Moka Pot I use for travel.

 

[Pequod]

2 minutes ago, FotonDrv said:

That is good to know!  Maybe MillCity should update the photos of that 500g roaster.  What impressed me was the speed with which my questions were answered and the no nonsense manner in the way they answered.

And Pequod, yes, I still have the motorized HG-1 and love it.  So smooth and consistent that I wonder why the Lyn/Weber team did not do it originally.  I just wish I had the new style grind adjustment pegs and not the screw/knob to tighten.  The Monolith's have a capture style tightening collar very much like, the Titus grinder, and that style works very well too and Titus was the first I know of to do it that way.  Titus is a great grinder but the cost is astronomical, I had a modified Versalab but the Titus is light years better.

For brew/drip I use a Baratza Forte' BG.

Here is my traveling grinder, a Lido 2, and my traveling French Press and the Moka Pot I use for travel.

 

 

Cool, thanks! I strive to be you someday.

[FotonDrv]

Bad idea,,,,  I am a physical mess that seems to still be moving.  Most think it is divine intervention but I think they just haven't found the portrait of Dorian Grey yet

I have a few hobbies that occupy my time but my health is always getting in the way, so now taking the BBQ to a whole new level is fun.  I have had Kamado style cookers for 50 years but this Komodo it the best by far.  Now to figure out how to roast coffee on it

 

[FotonDrv]

On 7/6/2017 at 9:29 PM, Phred said:

Yes, the heat/chaff tube is on the outside. Regular cleaning is a shop vac to clean out the area around the burners and the chaff tube (which has a hinged door to allow easy access). Mine is still pretty new so I haven't opened it up yet to clean the fan blades, lubricate the drum shaft, etc. Those steps are in my near future and I imagine I'll have a few choice words for the machine at that point.

 

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Phred, you must have the 1K model because I called Mill City Roasters with other questions and once I had those answered I asked about that tube; it is on the inside under the sheetmetal hood.  The cooling tray exits straight down and does not redirect the smoke/chaff flow from it to the outside.

 

So I have decided to get a Bella Taiwan mini500 roaster.   It has all the features I would like and the wires for the probes are not located in the moving dump door thus flexing the wires.  It has a separate blower motor with ducting to pump cooling smoke and chaff outside as does the separate roaster/cyclone blower motor.  It has a cast iron drum...  It also has cooling arms which are a nicety but not a necessity.

 

[Pequod]

On 7/13/2017 at 11:20 AM, FotonDrv said:

Phred, you must have the 1K model because I called Mill City Roasters with other questions and once I had those answered I asked about that tube; it is on the inside under the sheetmetal hood.  The cooling tray exits straight down and does not redirect the smoke/chaff flow from it to the outside.

 

So I have decided to get a Bella Taiwan mini500 roaster.   It has all the features I would like and the wires for the probes are not located in the moving dump door thus flexing the wires.  It has a separate blower motor with ducting to pump cooling smoke and chaff outside as does the separate roaster/cyclone blower motor.  It has a cast iron drum...  It also has cooling arms which are a nicety but not a necessity.

Interesting roaster. I can't seem to find much info on them online other than a wee bit on H-B. Are they sold in the US or do you order directly from Bella?

I'm still thinking about the Huky. It has the capacity I'd need -- about 350g for brewed coffee per week.

[FotonDrv]

The Bella Taiwan can be purchased from the factory and imported by yourself at a considerable savings.  With the price of the machine plus air freight to my door is is $250 more than the Mill City 500g.

As far as I know there are no dealers in the USA, or perhaps none in North America, only in Asia. 

I have been contacting the mini500 owners on H-B and getting info and recommendations.  It is more money that the Huky but it is way more roaster.  The new ones, the mini500 Plus, have a usb port to plug into your computer to run Artisan directly should you want to graph the roasts.

I think this is closer to the newest model, but I think the new one does not have a burner door, only a window.  This photo is off of H-B and I am sure there are changes for the newest version.  I believe there might be 3 upgrades since they first started producing them

 

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by FotonDrv
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