Tru Tel Options**

[primeats]

I do like the thermometer showing a higher temperature range.Is this an option?

[primeats]

Pro Joe - New Ultimate Contender?

I think i just answered my own question, the thermometers are available from TelTrue shipped to me for under $30. i understand why Dennis doesn't use this one, the range is from 200-1000, ours is 150-750. I generally don't like to go over that when grilling, my tongs aren't that long, even with mitts, and I relish any hair left on my head!

[Syzygies]

Re: Pro Joe - New Ultimate Contender?

Yep, I've been using a Tel-Tru thermometer since my KK arrived:

BIG Green Egg, Grill Dome, Kamado Replacement Thermometer LT225R, 200/1000 degrees F

Here's their complete range of barbecue thermometers:

BARBECUE PIT, GRILL, AND SMOKE THERMOMETERS

[DennisLinkletter]

Re: Pro Joe - New Ultimate Contender?

I do like the thermometer showing a higher temperature range.Is this an option?

My guess from using an IR thermometer is that 750º dome is about 900-1,000º down on the lower grill/upper sear grill set down below.. Does it make sense to run higher than that? The refractory hot-face is rated for 2200ºf but you definitely get crazing from expansion that people worry about at temps over 1,000ºf. I have a 5 year old KK that has had it thermometer completely wrapped more times than I can remember without any problems but I think it's a bit dangerous and unnecessary to cook at those temps. Fat/oil can flash/ignite into big flames at those temps.

[Conodo12]

Re: Pro Joe - New Ultimate Contender?

Before the KK, I used the tried and proven method of holding my hand over the fire to gauge the heat of the coals. If I could only hold my hand about an inch from the grates for about a second, then I knew I was ready to grill the steaks. Today, I get the KK up to the 500º - 600º reading on the Tel-Tru and know I am ready. I have not wrapped my Tel-Tru (yet!) and see no reason to cook at temps over 750º. What cooks at that temp?

[Amphoran]

Re: Pro Joe - New Ultimate Contender?

Pizza!

[Syzygies]

Re: Pro Joe - New Ultimate Contender?

Fat/oil can flash/ignite into big flames at those temps.

Yeah, I once cooked a steak at 900 F, to see what would happen. Tasted funny, and it was like the fat had boiled off in 45 seconds. I started wondering about the safety of such a diet, and never tried again.

As for 1000 F readings, I agree I like to stay below 750 F. However, I like room on my dial. A quirk, like seeing a bit of the side of your car, in your side mirrors. Totally unnecessary, but reassuring, helps keep your bearings.

Three people were nearly sun ornaments from this issue. As a routine measure, NASA boiled off the contents of an oxyen tank during Apollo mission training. They sat some guy on a folding chair, told him watch this dial and tell us if it goes over a target temperature. (You can't make this up.) Turns out the thermometer went up to this target temperature and stops there, no matter what the actual temperature. The guy saw this, but it never went over the target temperature, so he never said anything. Meanwhile, the wiring inside the tank lost its insulation to high heat.

I'm leaving out a lot of the story, but months later, kaboom in space on board Apollo 13, and the guys barely made it back alive.

Yeah, I'm more comfortable with a thermometer that goes beyond the range I need. If I accidentally do go beyond 750 F, I want to know how far. Like air bags in my car, I want them but it doesn't mean I'm planning to use them.

[primeats]

Re: Pro Joe - New Ultimate Contender?

I have wrapped my therm a couple times at home, by not paying attention, burned fuel REALLY fast. It was even too hot for pizza. Like I said I treasure the remaining hairs on my head and face, arms as well. Even though my gloves go to my elbows, there are times I just go in there with my tongs for a quick turn or flip. Yes 750 dome temp is plenty hot for me.That being said it's kinda cool to know how hot it got during a run-away! I'll save my $30 for the coco-coal when it's ready!

[DennisLinkletter]

Re: Pro Joe - New Ultimate Contender?

Pizza!

With my KK baking stone up on the upper I've never made crust that cooked fast enough at 750º Plus dome not to burn the cheese before the crust was ready..

Anybody done pizza at 750º successfully?

If so, was it a super thin crust pizza?

[DennisLinkletter]

Re: Pro Joe - New Ultimate Contender?

Yeah, I'm more comfortable with a thermometer that goes beyond the range I need. If I accidentally do go beyond 750 F, I want to know how far. Like air bags in my car, I want them but it doesn't mean I'm planning to use them.

I agree with this.. but there is another trade off.

The 750º max reads from 150º

The 1000º max reads from 200º

Is it more important to know how low under 200º you're running or how much over 750º?

[TheNakedWhiz]

Re: Tru Tel Options**

"Is it more important to know how low under 200º you're running or how much over 750º?"

That's why I have a couple of each model. Also note, if you haven't already, that Tel-Tru says that the 1000 degree model should only be above 800 degrees for limited periods of time. Of course, they don't define limited.

[Syzygies]

Re: Pro Joe - New Ultimate Contender?

Anybody done pizza at 750º successfully?

I've had lots of pizza out of those enormous outdoor wood-fired pizza ovens in southern Italy. They surely go to 750º and higher, but they're entirely different animals. To approximate that pizza in a KK, the ideal temperature for me is 600º.

I don't have the faintest understanding of the differences in the physics involved. Reducing a situation to a single number is so much a part of our western mindset, like choosing recreations that involve waiting in lines.

[Amphoran]

Re: Tru Tel Options**

I've done pizzas successfully in my KK at 850 deg, and got typical NYC wood or coal - fired results: a thin crust, sparingly topped pizza cooked in about 80 seconds, with the proper amount of charring on the bottom of the crust.

However, I burned a whole basket of charcoal to cook three pies, which wasn't making economic sense. I may have set up the KK incorrectly (i.e. I had the heat deflector in place), but I heat soaked the pizza stone for two hours.

I have since shifted back to using an electric baking oven (stone lined) for making my pizzas, using the following technique: heat soak the pizza stone for two hours at 550 deg, then turn on the broiler (about 6" from stone) for about ten minutes. Turn off broiler just before sliding in pie. Pies cook in 3-4 minutes, but do give the proper char on the bottom (from superheating the stone), which you can't otherwise get at 550 deg.

If I could heat the stone faster without the heat deflector in place, I'd give it a try in the KK again. I left it in because I was afraid that the direct radiant heat from a raging charcoal fire might crack it.

Cheers,

Mike

[slu]

Re: Pro Joe - New Ultimate Contender?

Pizza!

With my KK baking stone up on the upper I've never made crust that cooked fast enough at 750º Plus dome not to burn the cheese before the crust was ready..

Anybody done pizza at 750º successfully?

If so, was it a super thin crust pizza?

I believe the appropriate temperature range for your pizza stone is 725-750 degrees. I get a little worried when I take the KK up to this temperature and let it heat sink for an hour. Moreover, I utilize a heat deflector on the large grill so that the stone on the dome grill is heated evenly and indirectly. At the 700 degree range, I can crank out a pizza about every 2-3 minutes, baked just about perfectly. That said, traditional Italian pizzas have a thin crust, and toppings are applied sparsely. When baking at this temperature range, the moisture in the dough vaporizes, and this allows for a very light but crisp crust. Ultimately it's a matter of personal preference, but if you are trying to replicate the pizzas baked in the wood fired Italian ovens, you need the higher temperatures. Jeff Varasano's web page, sited elsewhere on this forum, is immensely helpful and informative. http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm

I have always intended to build a wood fired oven. You can purchase kits through Mugnaini http://www.mugnaini.com or build it yourself using plans that are included in The Bread Builders, http://www.amazon.com/Bread-Builders-He ... 1890132055

Only once has the temp in the KK gone over 750 due to my inattentiveness; thankfully I have yet to wind it! I have some hairline fractures but nothing with which to be concerned. Thanks for the tip on the Tel-Tru. I'll get one for the 1000 degrees, just so I can keep the KK accurate at 700-750.

[Syzygies]

Re: Tru Tel Options**

Both of these responses are fascinating. I never got these temperatures to work. I'll have to try again. We're signed up for a Neapolitan pizza class this summer (we've made plenty of pizza, but her classes are fun); I'll be curious what she does.

If I could heat the stone faster without the heat deflector in place' date=' I'd give it a try in the KK again. I left it in because I was afraid that the direct radiant heat from a raging charcoal fire might crack it.[/quote']

I've never worried about my Fibra-Ment pizza stone, on the top grill, no heat deflector.

On the other hand, our persistent problem at higher temperatures has been having the underside cook too fast. One wants radiant heat from above to match the stone, which may be more likely to balance properly with a heat deflector in place. Without one, the stone is getting nailed by the fire, and passing that heat on up to the underside of the pizza.

I get 40# bags of lump from Lazzari for $16. Just how much charcoal does your approach use? Still sounds cheaper than eating out, to me.

[slu]

Re: Tru Tel Options**

When heat sinking the KK for a pizza bake, I usually do it in two steps. Using Kingsford Competion Charcoal, I'll bring the KK up to 550 to 600; then I usually need to add more charcoal to bump it up to the 700 range. Adding lump charcoal for the boost seems to work particularly well. Ten pounds of charcoal, in toto, is sufficient. Prior to purchasing one of Dennis' new pizza stones, I used a 16" round, 5/8" thick kiln shelf; it worked great and did not crack. (I have not fired the new KK pizza stone yet.) You can omit the diffuser, but be prepared to bake for only 2 minutes, and adjust the toppings accordingly; however I still recommend its use.

Mike, I have a friend who is an accomplished home baker (he even built his own wood fired oven), and he utilizes the same method when baking pizza in his electric oven. Preheating the stone with the broiler seems to do the trick.

I'll have to give it a try!

Cheers,

Peter

[DennisLinkletter]

Re: Pro Joe - New Ultimate Contender?

[

Only once has the temp in the KK gone over 750 due to my inattentiveness; thankfully I have yet to wind it! I have some hairline fractures but nothing with which to be concerned. Thanks for the tip on the Tel-Tru. I'll get one for the 1000 degrees, just so I can keep the KK accurate at 700-750.

Nobody should worry about the hairline fractures.. We cut the expansion joints to try to steer the inevitable expansion into them but nature has it's own mind sometimes and the movement occurs elsewhere.. They are not a problem.

Also the black material on the lip is grout and there for cosmetic reasons.. It is easy to crack from expansion at high temps.. this does not affect the refractory material below it..

[slu]

Re: Tru Tel Options**

If I were using a pizza oven, I'd bake the pies at 800 degrees. Do you think the KK could routinely handle a heat sink at that temperature? This is not a criticism; I operate on the "do no harm" principle. What do you think?

[DennisLinkletter]

Re: Tru Tel Options**

If I were using a pizza oven' date=' I'd bake the pies at 800 degrees. Do you think the KK could routinely handle a heat sink at that temperature? This is not a criticism; I operate on the "do no harm" principle. What do you think?[/quote']

The refractory hot face is rated for service to 2,200ºf the refractory insulation will never get past it's 680º service temp. The high tech jacket that attaches and grouts the tiles service temp is 470º but can take spikes to as high as 520º. Over that temp it will start to harden, loose it's elasticity and tear next time it needs to expand. I think the hot air escaping running over the first tiles on the damper top would be the Achille's heel.

Regardless what temps you might use in a pizza oven, I can assure you the cheese will be burned at 800º if you have the baking stone up on the upper grill. I'm sure it would covered with brown burns in the first minute.

But to answer your question I'd have to know how often "routinely" is.. and what "handle" means.

I guess I should get one in a working environment where they crank it up to 800º for 8-10 hours a day and see what happens. I can't imagine running it at 800º for 2 hours once or twice a month would be problematic.

But as I said I've only done the standard medium thick crusts and even 700º burns the cheese 4-5 minutes so I just don't see 800º as remotely possible.

And while it sounds wimpy, working on a 800º grill is a bit treacherous also..

[slu]

Re: Tru Tel Options**

Dennis, that's very useful information. Let me ask this: for a person who would bake pizza once a week, what would be the maximum temperature at which you would fire the pizza without doing damage to the KK? I didn't acquire a KK to bake pizza; it's a happy coincidence that it does such a fine job with it. However, since I plan on being buried in it, I want the KK to last a long time!!