Nearly Ran out of Coals during overnight cook

[MadMedik]

Hello.

I mentioned a few days ago i cooked 8 pork butt/shoulders. This was the 3rd "overnight" cook i have done and i have never ran out of coals... Well, this past cook, at the very end of the cook, i attempted to increase my temperature of the fire.... I turned it up 5, then 10, then 15 degrees (using the Stoker program)... the Pit Temp was not increasing...the fan was on continuously and I thought there must be something wrong with my Stoker setup... I was not losing heat, i Just could not increase it at all...

As it turned out, the increase in heat was not needed, the food finished 30 minutes later and i closed everything up and figured i would call Stoker about "a problem". That afternoon, when i had a chance to check the KK and its fuel content, i had literally 2 or 3 small to medium pieces left in the basket...it was nearly completely burned up...HMMM??

I just barely completed the cook without having lost heat and really screwing up my cook. Had I needed another hour or 2 i would have had problems...no fuel left...!

I thought this odd since i have never had a basket burn out over night...about 13 hours total at mostly 230 to 240 degrees...

In hind site, i realize i had about 1/4 of the basket with smaller "leftover coals" from previous cooks, then i topped over the rest of the basket with fresh new coals, but it was the "last of the bag" which mostly tends to be smaller pieces....lots of smaller pieces.

So i am assuming the smaller pieces burn 'faster' than larger pieces? Volume wise, it seemed like i had plenty of coals...but they were small pieces. I have had the basket just as full with "bigger" pieces of charcoal...and this burned all night with hours to spare.

So can anyone confirm for certain that if you had 2 baskets full of coals....but 1 with mostly small pieces....and 1 with smalls, mediums, and large pieces.... 1 will burn faster than the other? (small pieces burns faster)

My lesson from this is for the overnight cooks, fill the basket with new/unused coals and use as much medium and large pieces as possible for longer burning coal baskets.

If this is the case, newbie's beware (that would be me). You don't want to have your fire burn out on the long cooks !!!!

[fcnich]

Re: Nearly Ran out of Coals during overnight cook

HMM maybe take the "used" charcoal out, put in fresh charcoal, then put the used stuff on top and light?? I am just guessing that may work.

[Paswesley]

Re: Nearly Ran out of Coals during overnight cook

Yes, my experience has been that a basket with smaller pieces will burn out faster than a basket with large to medium chunks. You did not mention the type of charcoal you are using. Some brands of charcoal have a high percentage of smalls and fines. Avoid those brands. Check out the Naked Whiz's excellent rating site. Finally, if you do not take care to pack your charcoal carefully into the basket, there can be fairly large air pockets, i.e empty spaces in the basket. You are on the right track in your conclusions, though. May i suggest that for all future low and slows, place large to medium pieces into the basket until it is completely full, taking care to eliminate any open pockets in the coal. Assuming your KK is properly air tight, this practice will ensure that you do not run out of charcoal before your food is done. You will be an old hand in no time. Paswesley

[DennisLinkletter]

Can NOT go thru a basket on a 13 hours cook..

Hello.

I mentioned a few days ago i cooked 8 pork butt/shoulders. This was the 3rd "overnight" cook i have done and i have never ran out of coals... Well, this past cook, at the very end of the cook, i attempted to increase my temperature of the fire.... I turned it up 5, then 10, then 15 degrees (using the Stoker program)... the Pit Temp was not increasing...the fan was on continuously and I thought there must be something wrong with my Stoker setup... I was not losing heat, i Just could not increase it at all...

As it turned out, the increase in heat was not needed, the food finished 30 minutes later and i closed everything up and figured i would call Stoker about "a problem". That afternoon, when i had a chance to check the KK and its fuel content, i had literally 2 or 3 small to medium pieces left in the basket...it was nearly completely burned up...HMMM??

You did NOT go thru a basket on a 13 hours cook at mostly 230 to 240 degrees. Impossible. My guess is that you did not shut it down properly. A door must have been left open or the Stoker door stuck open/air was getting in and it burned thru the fuel.

So i am assuming the smaller pieces burn 'faster' than larger pieces? Volume wise' date=' it seemed like i had plenty of coals...but they were small pieces. I have had the basket just as full with "bigger" pieces of charcoal...and this burned all night with hours to spare.[/quote']

Charcoal is fuel.. The volume of burning fuel and temp is in direct proportion to the available oxygen/airflow. At 230º it does not matter what size the charcoal is as long as it can get air to burn.

For high temps the smaller pieces will restrict airflow and make getting high temps difficult. But charcoal of the same density burns according to the available oxygen regardless of size.

So can anyone confirm for certain that if you had 2 baskets full of coals....but 1 with mostly small pieces....and 1 with smalls' date=' mediums, and large pieces.... 1 will burn faster than the other? (small pieces burns faster)[/quote']

This is NOT correct.. if you weigh out 1lb of smalls and 1lb of large pieces give them the same volume of airflow/oxygen, they will create the same BTUs and burn for the same time.

My lesson from this is for the overnight cooks, fill the basket with new/unused coals and use as much medium and large pieces as possible for longer burning coal baskets.

If this is the case, newbie's beware (that would be me). You don't want to have your fire burn out on the long cooks !!!!

I'm sorry no lesson for you here.. at least in regards to size of your fuel..

If you start with a full bowl of charcoal.. unless it's from balsa wood. (super lightweight). You will never run out.. As is documented on this forum.. 16lbs of charcoal at 235º will last about 85 hours.

You are burning a very small volume of fuel to maintain these low and slow temps..

[MadMedik]

Re: Nearly Ran out of Coals during overnight cook

I just replied a long post...i got busy and it timed out and I lost everything...hate it when that happens...

Anyway, a bit shorter version this time.

I use Royal Oak lump. Used 6 or 7 bags so far. No issues there.

As for not shutting down my KK, I usually do shut down. Have not forgotten before. Since used the Stoker, the bottom vents were closed the whole time. Top Damper at 1/4 open. Perhaps like Dennis says...the Fan maybe stayed open??? Don't know.

For sure, that afternoon, there were only 2 or 3 coals left...it was basically empty. My Full Basket was full up to the top ring of basket. It did not extend higher than the top ring...like a a dome shape/rounded shaped above and beyond the top ring. It was level, flat, and full to top ring of basket. In the past , i may have have gone above the top ring. I am generally so unconcerned about burning all coals on an overnight cook that i don't stack it really high.

At the end of my cook...i attempted to raise pit temp 3 different times, going higher each time. Temp would not go past 250. When i got to work it had actually gone down to 238 or so.... i was loosing heat now. I went back home , took meat off, and all was fine and good. Did not look at coals at that point.

Prior to leaving for work, I thought Stoker may be having issues. I changed the Pit Sensor to a different port, it start flashing/blinking intermittenly (it is not suppose to do that), so i put back on original port. Also, the Stoker Log did not recognize the Sensor when i changed it. Once back to original port, it was found again.

I called Kenny at Rocks....he said to return it today. I will. I tried using on Saturday...did not quite seem right...so I went Stokerless for the rest of the cook.

I was COMPLETELY and totally surprised the coals were gone. Did not expect this at all. Did the fan stay open...don't know ?

future overnight cooks i will be sure to have fresh coals, larger when possible, stack a little extra....just a precautions and peace of mind. Dennis is correct.... I should not (CAN NOT) run out of coal in a short overnight cook at 230... But with NOT BEING ABLE to increase the temps at the end....led me to think the coals really were out. I don't know...confusing and interesting....

Thanks Dennis for reading a responding. I love the KK. The Stoker is very easy to use. It makes me feel a little guilty...like this is not real BBQing...it is so easy to control and monitor...very nice!

Hard to believe this is a shorter version of my lost post....sometimes I get long winded....

[DennisLinkletter]

Re: Nearly Ran out of Coals during overnight cook

I just replied a long post...i got busy and it timed out and I lost everything...hate it when that happens...

Anyway, a bit shorter version this time.

I use Royal Oak lump. Used 6 or 7 bags so far. No issues there.

As for not shutting down my KK, I usually do shut down. Have not forgotten before. Since used the Stoker, the bottom vents were closed the whole time. Top Damper at 1/4 open. Perhaps like Dennis says...the Fan maybe stayed open??? Don't know.

Sometimes some ash gets into the draft door frame and causes a leak.. Maybe the latch not fully closed. Rear door?

For sure' date=' that afternoon, there were only 2 or 3 coals left...it was basically empty.[/quote']

Which is a sign there because you know how long a bowl lasts many low and slow cooks. Something was amiss.

X amount of charcoal produces X amount of heat with X oxygen.. and the insulation does not vary in the amount of heat it holds in.

My Full Basket was full up to the top ring of basket. It did not extend higher than the top ring...like a a dome shape/rounded shaped above and beyond the top ring. It was level' date=' flat, and full to top ring of basket. In the past , i may have have gone above the top ring. I am generally so unconcerned about burning all coals on an overnight cook that i don't stack it really high.[/quote']

Something was amiss. possibly the fan blew much harder from the new settings while you were gone? Because even to the afternoon seems fast..

At the end of my cook...i attempted to raise pit temp 3 different times' date=' going higher each time. Temp would not go past 250. When i got to work it had actually gone down to 238 or so.... i was loosing heat now. I went back home , took meat off, and all was fine and good. Did not look at coals at that point..[/quote']

Remember it's always either lack of fuel or airflow.. maybe all the smalls had clogged up your airflow?? How did you attempted to raise pit temp 3 different times, going higher each time? With a higher setting on the Stoker? Manually?

When you went to work the grill was still burning and there were the new settings? I'm guessing your new setting finally worked and you finished at a much higher temp... I misunderstood above and thought you had finished taken your meat out and shut it down.

Prior to leaving for work, I thought Stoker may be having issues. I changed the Pit Sensor to a different port, it start flashing/blinking intermittenly (it is not suppose to do that), so i put back on original port. Also, the Stoker Log did not recognize the Sensor when i changed it. Once back to original port, it was found again.

I called Kenny at Rocks....he said to return it today. I will. I tried using on Saturday...did not quite seem right...so I went Stokerless for the rest of the cook.

I was COMPLETELY and totally surprised the coals were gone. Did not expect this at all. Did the fan stay open...don't know ?

There is a little door on the stoker that can stick in the open position (or so I'm told)

future overnight cooks i will be sure to have fresh coals' date=' larger when possible, stack a little extra....just a precautions and peace of mind. Dennis is correct.... I should not (CAN NOT) run out of coal in a short overnight cook at 230... But with NOT BEING ABLE to increase the temps at the end....led me to think the coals really were out. I don't know...confusing and interesting....[/quote']

As I said above.. it's always either lack of fuel or airflow.. maybe the smalls and ash clogged up your airflow.. The larger pieces are most important for high temp cooks the powder you can toss way off to the one side. Maybe the smalls just fell thru into your ash..

Thanks Dennis for reading a responding. I love the KK. The Stoker is very easy to use. It makes me feel a little guilty...like this is not real BBQing...it is so easy to control and monitor...very nice! .

My pleasure.. But I'm guessing you might have had a much hotter cook from the new settings after you left.. If I had a dollar for how many times I changed the settings what I thought was a little.. got impatient and opened it up a bit more before walking away and came back to a much too hot grill... Glad you are enjoying your KK.. My last dollar bet... The culprit here is extra airflow causing a much hotter burn..

[rick]

Re: Nearly Ran out of Coals during overnight cook

When I shut down my KK, I always put a silicone plug in the polder hole and another one in the air infuser hole. These plugs completely stop air from entering from those two areas. Jeff Bower sold me the ones I use. He may still have some extra ones he can send you. His userid is JDBower.

Another problem you may have is if you inadvertently put the Stoker fan housing on upside down the trap door will never close. It will stay open the entire cook. If you leave the fan assembly in position after your cook it will definitely allow enough air to pass into the KK to keep a fire going.

The only time I ran out of fuel during a long cook was on a rare cold night (~45 degrees) in Southern California. It only happened once and hasn't happened since. Now I watch out for this by filling the basket with fresh lump, removing all the old stuff - saving it for a lesser cook like a quick steak or hamburger.

Rick

[MadMedik]

Re: Nearly Ran out of Coals during overnight cook

quote:

"Remember it's always either lack of fuel or airflow.. maybe all the smalls had clogged up your airflow?? How did you attempted to raise pit temp 3 different times, going higher each time? With a higher setting on the Stoker? Manually?

When you went to work the grill was still burning and there were the new settings? I'm guessing your new setting finally worked and you finished at a much higher temp... I misunderstood above and thought you had finished taken your meat out and shut it down."

I attempted to raise temps by adjusting from the Stoker Log and having the fan blow more... It just did not respond.

Anyway, i don't know for certain....perhaps some day i will save all my smalls , fill basket to top ring, and burn it all night at 230 and see what happens...

Bottom line....i made it through the cook, and the Food was AWESOME!!!

[MadMedik]

Re: Nearly Ran out of Coals during overnight cook

When I shut down my KK, I always put a silicone plug in the polder hole and another one in the air infuser hole. These plugs completely stop air from entering from those two areas. Jeff Bower sold me the ones I use. He may still have some extra ones he can send you. His userid is JDBower.

Another problem you may have is if you inadvertently put the Stoker fan housing on upside down the trap door will never close. It will stay open the entire cook. If you leave the fan assembly in position after your cook it will definitely allow enough air to pass into the KK to keep a fire going.

The only time I ran out of fuel during a long cook was on a rare cold night (~45 degrees) in Southern California. It only happened once and hasn't happened since. Now I watch out for this by filling the basket with fresh lump, removing all the old stuff - saving it for a lesser cook like a quick steak or hamburger.

Rick

I do want a plug for the polder hole. I currently use a big plug of foil...looks lame. Dennis says he is working on a plug. When available, i will get that for sure. Maybe JDBower can provide for the interim?

Putting it upside down ??? Never thought of it up or down....I do put it in where the cord/plug runs naturally straight down ...a more vertical position...as if it were standing on its edge with the cord going down... Is that correct...it just seemed to make sense to have the cord go down, and not out sideways or straight up !

MadMedik

[mguerra]

Re: Nearly Ran out of Coals during overnight cook

Look in your fan housing. Hold it both ways, you will readily see which way is upside down and that results in the door being wide open all the time. The problem of the door sticking open I believe was resolved quite some time ago. I made a little mod to prevent this; and told John about it, and he said he incorporated a similar mod in the production thereafter.