jdbower

Thanks Whizzy, that means a lot coming from such a prolific publisher as yourself!

Having always had a simple grill (be it propane or a Weber kettle) and generally only making one thing on it at a time I questioned the sanity of some of the members here who have multiple cookers. Then I moved into a house that had two ovens. At first it was a luxury item I didn’t understand either, then I started cooking in the new kitchen. Wouldn’t it be nice to have fresh bread along with the casserole? Or to bake dessert while still cooking dinner? I found myself using both fairly regularly and then I saw the light. And I had to have a matched set of KKs. First of all, sorry about the lighting and background. There isn’t much direct sunlight in the winter on my property. If I can find the “magic hour†I’ll try for some better shots. Or maybe I'll just do a long exposure once it gets dark. At first glance they’re identical, albeit slightly size disparate, copies of each other. Upon further inspection there are some subtle and well-thought-out differences. The cooking surface of the noticeably smaller 19.5†model is nearly the same comfortable height as the 23†model. This is thanks to a more narrow body as well as taller legs. This also raises the ash door slightly which would allow someone cooking on a terrace to remove ashes into a larger container – perhaps saving their downstairs neighbor from a smoky snowstorm. The casters are a bit smaller which make it a little harder to push around my crack-filled driveway. But this is also a blessing to the MTU-dweller who probably doesn’t want their KK moving about on their smooth balcony in the high winds found 9 stories up. Either way, both models have casters that are nicely proportioned to their size and weight. Aesthetically I prefer the 23†model’s sloping rear cover to the 19.5†model’s vertical lines. But those lines do accentuate the tallness of the 19.5†so even if it were technically possible to make a wider rear cover without affecting the internals I don’t know if it would look as nice as it does on the 23â€. Most of the accessory components are exactly the same size on the two of them. The same power draft port, rotisserie bearings, polder port and thermometer so anything that works with a 23†will likely work in the same manner on the 19.5â€. Only the draft door needed to be reshaped to allow for the tall-and-skinny body style. Another “quirk†is that the 19.5†is a bit too small to share the same gas lighter door of the 23â€. A reasonable workaround may be to use a 23†lighter assembly and manually hold it in the ash door until the charcoal lights. Of course, using a chimney starter, weed burner or any of the variety of other options available would also suffice. Internally the 19.5†is just a tall and skinny version of the 23â€. It’s nominally the same as a Gen II.2 23†model with all stainless accessories, high quality casters, and the beveled interlocking lid. The construction seems very similar, even down to a lot of the tile patterning. The grate bar diameters have not been downsized; it’s the same 3/8†stainless as the 23â€. The main grill even still has the same trap door design that I find so clever. It lacks a few features out of necessity. For example, there is no lower grill but the sear grill rests at the same level the lower grill would rest at so I don’t think you’re missing anything. Although Dennis was wise enough to include the rotisserie bearings even the 6†EZ-Que basket is too big for the cooker. I’m sure once an alternative solution is available Dennis will come up with an associated rotisserie kit for his existing users. Also missing is the ash screen, I’m sure if there’s enough demand for one Dennis can create one for us but I’m not sure it’s something I’ll be using even in the 23†so I won’t miss it – and the lack of a gas burner door means that I’d want to use the ash door to light my chimney starter form underneath anyway. The fit and finish of the 23†seems a bit nicer. Nothing major, just little things like how the tiles below the ash door on the 23†line up with the rest of the body while the 19.5†is offset slightly. It’s nothing I’d ever notice if I didn’t have the two side-by-side. And for now the 23†has a nice golden color inside while the 19.5†is a stark white. Both are definitely worthy of the Komodo name. Below are the sizes of the cookers, mostly from things I’ve gleaned off the forum from Dennis but I did have to fill in a few gaps. The weight of a 23†is 476lbs (216kg) while the 19.5†weighs in at 368lbs (167kg). Eventually I’d like to do some side-by-side Whizzy-style experiments. Things like starting each with a full basket and seeing how long they go at the same temperature; or starting each out with the same amount of charcoal to see which one is more efficient. I’d also be curious as to startup times; my guess is that the 19.5†will get to temperature faster but that the 23†will be a bit more stable. But really it’s the results that matter. I’ll hold off on using it a bit in case anyone wants any snapshots of anything when it’s nice and clean, but once I do I’ll let you know if there are any real differences in the results compared to Big Brother. My first impression: Both are excellent cookers, choosing between them is like choosing a favorite child (OK, choosing a favorite child when both of them are listening!). If I had a house or a large enough space for it I’d go for the 23â€. I like the aesthetics of it better plus I’d rather have the extra cooking space if I need it. If I had an apartment where a 23†wouldn’t fit or would be pushing the limits then a 19.5†is a clear choice. The 19.5†is cheaper (and much less money than it is less grill) so if it’s a matter of getting a 19.5†or nothing at all then the choice is made for you. Then again, regardless of funding, if you like the way the 19.5†looks and find it as unlikely as I do that you’ll be able to fill it with food (let alone a 23â€) then the smaller cooker may be just right for you. If I had to do it over again I think I like my decision. I believe that the mismatched but color-coordinated pair is better aesthetically than the potentially more useful pair of 23†grills (the same color or not). It adds a certain hierarchy to them rather than just a pair of equals that I find pleasing in a feng shui sort of way. If anyone has any questions about the two I'd be happy to answer them as best as I can. Edit: Minor correction to the "B" dimension for the 19.5" model

Selecting your Wok After receiving an Eastman Outdoors 22†carbon steel propane wok for Christmas I decided to do a little research. Luckily, I also received Breath of a Wok which contains a wealth of information. As far as the book is concerned, the author relies a bit too heavily on the “Ancient Chinese Secret†theory and seems to spurn any sort of technological advancement, so the information contained within should be taken with a Kosher-sized grain of salt. Carbon steel seemed an odd choice in today’s world of stainless and Teflon, but it’s actually ideal for high temperature wok cooking. According to “wok-a-philes†there are two basic materials that “good†woks are made of: carbon steel allows for quick even heating but Cantonese style woks use a thin cast iron. The cast iron woks take longer to heat up, but also longer to cool down. They’re also heavier and pretty fragile. Multiple sources seem to show that the carbon steel woks are the preferred route, but several have a strong preference for cast iron (think Mac vs. PC). Nearly all serious wokers agree that these two metals are preferable. Stainless steel woks also exist, but the heat may be a bit too uneven for stir-frying. Additionally, people tend to clean stainless too much, a properly seasoned wok should add a bit of flavor to a meal much in the same way properly seasoned cast iron cookware does. Nonstick woks are held in even greater contempt, since wok cooking is done at very high temperatures the nonstick coating tends to disintegrate very quickly. Also, part of the “wok flavor†is derived from the juices sticking to the metal and burning as you cook. Electric woks are viewed the same way we view electric grills, both because they’re nearly always nonstick and because the heat cycles on and off they aren’t typical choices for “real†wok cooking. The theory goes that most of the expensive woks are designed for looks rather than cooking, how much I believe that is questionable (I have a non-stick wok from Costco and it does a decent job and the electric wok I had in college was acceptable). Wok shapes are either flat-bottomed or round-bottomed. Flat is necessary for cooking on an electric range (a round-bottomed wok can reflect heat back to the heating element and damage it), but round requires less oil and is more traditional. If you use a round-bottomed wok on a traditional burner you’ll also need a wok ring to stabilize it. The Eastman wok kit has a burner grid that is designed for the wok. There doesn’t seem to be a consensus on the handle style. Traditionally there are two hand grips on either side for picking the wok up, but some woks are “westernized†with a long pot handle on one side. These don’t attract the ire of traditionalists nearly as much as I had expected leading me to believe at least some of them believe it’s the result and not the packaging that’s important. My Costco model has a western style handle and I use it as a frying pan as well as a wok. The Eastman model is more traditional but a lot of that is the thin gauge metal wouldn’t be able to support its own weight let alone the weight of a full wok. A western handle is also more likely to be bumped into causing a spill when used on a standalone burner, over a stove the handle can always be moved out of the way. You’ll also probably want a lid; round lids are preferable to flat as they tend to drip along the sides instead of into the food. Look for a lid about 1†smaller than your wok size. Seasoning your Wok Technically even an unseasoned wok will eventually become seasoned by simply using it, but you may as well get your wok off to a good start (plus you'll definitely need to clean the wok before using it to remove the machine oils used in processing). The traditional method involves pork fat and Chinese scallions (sometimes called garlic chives). There are a ton of theories as to why this is used, chemical reactions between the pork fat and the sulfur in the chives create a cleansing and disinfecting cleaner and the like. The real reason is likely because pork fat and chives were cheap and plentiful in even the poorest regions of China. More modern techniques vary from person to person but they have common themes. First, wash the wok thoroughly. This may be the only time your wok will see soap and water, scrub it with a scouring pad and use a stainless steel scrubber to get all the manufacturing oils off of it. Carbon steel and cast iron rust so frequently there’s a coating of oil you’ll want to remove before using it on real food. Rinse the wok thoroughly and dry it quickly so it doesn’t start to rust. Seasoning universally seems to involve heat and oil. Some recommend a quick boil first, then dump the water and wipe the pan. Others go straight into the high temperature oil cooking. Either way the process is to heat the oil (often with chives or something similar), empty the wok, while still hot wipe it down with paper towels (using tongs), and repeat until the paper towels no longer come back stained black. One of the more interesting techniques involves using an oven (or KK!) at 450 degrees. First wash and dry the wok (do a final dry on the burner under low heat). Spread about ½ teaspoon of oil on the inside and “bake†for about 20 minutes. Note that wooden handles may need to be protected with a wet rag and aluminum foil and plastic/rubber handles may need to be removed. Allow the wok to cool for about 5 minutes and then scrub with a stainless scrubber and hot water (no soap) then heat it to dry it. Repeat until the wok is a bronze color (about 5 times). Your first few cooks should be oil-based cooks. Avoid things that are too acidic (like tomatoes or vinegar-based sauces) and don’t use the wok for things like steaming initially. The Eastman Wok Bear in mind that I haven’t used the wok yet so this is all conjecture and first opinions. Once I get up the courage to refill my propane I’ll test it out (I feel the need to explain that propane is NOT for grilling, it’s for lighting charcoal, cooking, and running mosquito traps – charcoal and wood chunks are for grilling!). The 22†model is a monster wok. It’s spun carbon steel but there is a stainless version also available. From a manufacturing perspective it looks cheap. It’s a thin gauge and flexes noticeably when you pick it up (but it is also 22†wide!). There are a few mars in the finish as though a hard metal object dug into it. But on the other hand it’s very evenly round and the handles are both riveted and welded in. Not having any experience with woks this size it may be par for the course and the thin metal should heat up quickly as well as allowing you to remove it from the heat to cool it quickly. I’ve only “seasoned†the wok by scrubbing it out and coating it with olive oil – the thing’s too big for my oven and I have an electric range (yes, I know, it’s on the list of things to upgrade!). The “tripod†also seems to be a bit on the cheap side but mostly that’s because Dennis spoils us. Nothing about it seems like it will fail, it’s just not overbuilt like a KK is (how many 3/8†stainless steel bars are required to hold up 15lbs of meat?). Assembly is easy, there’s an included tool but having your own socket wrench really helps since some of the spaces are tight. You’ll also need your own adjustable wrench (or similar) for the burner assembly. The directions are a bit misleading, one of the legs is different than the others but it’s not easily noticeable (there’s supposed to be a “band†on one but all three have it). If you get one note that one set of bolts is slightly larger than the others so make sure you’ve got the large bolts in the leg with the large hole in the spot that also has large holes. Assembly consists of screwing the legs to the burner base and screwing the gas line to the burner proper (and sticking a spring and airflow adjustment wheel between the two). The latter part seems like more of a liability for them to leave to the customer to assemble, but maybe the thought is that if there’s a leak it’s the customer’s fault. I’ll leave that to their legal department to decide because it’s not like it’s a tough install. The burner itself looks pretty solid, but I have yet to fire it up. The included grate supports either round bottomed woks or flat bottomed things like pots by flipping it over. The same burner is used with their other outdoor cooking products which include stock pots, a turkey frying kit, and steamer accessories. The legs are adjustable to two heights (it’s not designed for any heights in between). It measures 20†from the burner to the ground in the low position and 30†in the extended position. I find the latter comfortable for using the wok with the included long-handled implements and the former is likely reasonable for steaming in large pots (I live in the land-o-lobster). Also included are some utensils. There’s a long-probed 50-550F pre-calibrated thermometer for frying (they’re very explicit on the safety issues of frying with high temperatures). Most interestingly, the thermometer claims to be dishwasher safe. There’s a long handled stainless steel ladle and spatula. Both seem pretty high quality, and quite possibly OEMed from OXO based on the handle style. All in all I’d rate it a good buy for someone with nothing in the category based on first impressions. If I had a burner already I think I’d look for a heavier gauge (and smaller!) carbon steel wok. If I had a wok already I may try to find the burner standalone or check out their other (western-style) cooking sets. Bayou Classic has other burners that seem to be popular but a quick look doesn’t seem to show any that can handle waist-level cooking as well as low, tall stockpot cooking without needing to buy (and store) a leg extension kit. Despite some obvious cost saving measures it's still probably a decent value and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one again - I can't wait to use it!

Don't worry, you'll hear plenty about both!

Costco now sells Wagyu beef. Show your significant other the price and a KK will be cheap in comparison!

Second time's the charm A minor shipping SNAFU on the first delivery delayed my other toy slightly, but (as so often happens in the KK world) everything has been made right. My first impressions of the 19.5" are pretty good, it's got the same KK quality and is probably all I'd need for most cooks. Still, if I had to choose just one it would probably be the 23". Only time will tell which one will be my primary and which one I'll use for cooking two things at once. On the left is a monster 22" carbon steel wok from Eastman Outdoors to round out my cooking needs. The legs on the burner "tripod" are in the low position which is much more suitable for steaming or using it with a stock pot, in the high position the wok is much more comfortable to use. I may need to wait until Spring to actually use it at this rate, but when I get the chance I'll let any interested parties know my thoughts on it thus far. It's kind of a grey, overcast day so I'll try to snap some more interesting pics when the sun comes out. And hopefully when the dirty snow melts or gets covered with a dusting of fresh stuff.

Those cows would probably taste awful, they spend their entire life smelling their brethren being slowly smoked next to them. "Is that Bob?" *sniff, sniff* "Naw, it smells more like Maggie!" That high stress living tends to do bad things to the meat. And that pool will be a nightmare to drain in the winter time, not to mention trying to shovel off that patio when you get 18" of snow. Great place, Dennis! Glad to see all your hard work is paying off and it looks like you're in a great position to enjoy life. Having just completed a move myself I can't imagine how much more fun it would have been to try to coordinate getting things between two islands. In a foreign country. In the wet season. Can't wait to hear your announcements!

I was at my mother's in north Jersey (near Hackettstown) for XMas day so I know about the rain there, we apparently had some up in MA too because the snow was greatly diminished on the way home. I found it quite fitting that on the way there and back I had to pass through (or at least near) Wanaque, NJ because that's how I felt On the plus side I got a nice propane-powered outdoor wok (a scant 22" - I think I can stir fry an elephant!) and a bunch of hot sauces so I'm ready for spring!

If you put a plastic bag and rubber band around the blower that should help (and you only really need it on when you're cooking and shutting down). You can also look into a second 1 3/8" Round Port Adapter from Rock's BBQ and fill the inside with high temp silicone sealant - essentially make a "null" fan adapter. Either way, a nice addition to the KK silicone plugs would be one that just fits the power draft port.

For the Stoker, I think something like this would work, but I'm not sure if it would be a tight enough fit (I would imagine this fits the bulkhead adapter for the Guru which I believe is just a tad smaller than the port on the KK). I'll hopefully be playing with my stoker this weekend. In the mean time, if you leave it attached (even if it's not in use) the fan's automatic door should stifle the vast majority of the incoming airflow.

Apparently Mahe is overrun with cinnamon trees, that may be an interesting wood to try to smoke. As well as coffee and tea which are apparently also local. This is an interesting chart, it also includes flavors and some things NOT to smoke (mango isn't listed, though). Some of the items listed aren't so much wood as they are shells, pistachio shells in particular popped out at me as something interesting to try. If you've got any food waste products that look burnable it may be worth looking into.

I happened to have my KK accessories box out and I was going to pick it up to put it away but I noticed it was very heavy. Little did I know that Dennis is also the purveyor of fine cat toys: What's not really evident from the picture is that this cat is longer than the box and, as near as I can tell, a bit larger as well. Yet not only does he fit inside but he was able to turn himself around in there. So if anyone is having issues convincing their wife that a KK is a good investment you can let her know that it will provide plenty of entertainment for her cat.

Interesting question. I found a place in Hawaii selling Guava and Kiawe (a tropical flavor of mesquite). Pimento apparently is also a tropical wood suitable for smoking. Most fruit trees seem to be OK, but as you've found out it may be wise to do a little research before you try anything. Some people use non-wood items as well, herbs, grape vines and corn cobs seem possible if those are easier to obtain.

It's supposed to drop down to 6F tonight, the "RealFeel" is -16F. I think another few degrees and the electrons will start spinning into their nuclei - no wonder MIT does a lot of superconductor research up here! I managed to dig it out, it's fun trying to be delicate with the front end loader. I got pretty close with it, then a little closer with the small snowthrower (that the rest of the snow laughed at), then finally dug it out with a shovel. No damage to the cooker, but the "cover" I was using (the plastic shipping bag) had split down the middle and filled with snow - luckily Johnnyboy to the rescue and he shipped out a proper cover today. I think I'll be storing it in the garage during impending snowstorms from now on so it doesn't get plowed in...

That stuff stopped falling from the sky today, do clouds get dandruff? I spot checked a few places and I think I'm edging up on 18". I moved the KK off to the side so the plow wouldn't damage it. Well, it's not damaged. As far as I can tell: No, it's not behind the snowbank. It's in it. I'm glad I shook off the tractor after the bulk of the snow fell on Saturday, this is just what came down on Sunday: Can I move back to NJ now?

Dennis has been waxing the matte finish ones with Meguiar's car wax (one of the wipe on/wipe off varieties, not positive which one though) so it should be OK with the grout and the glazed ceramic tiles are pretty tough. A polish tends to be a bit abrasive so I'd probably avoid it since it may wear down the grout a bit. Since a KK even at high temps really only gets about as hot as a black car in the sun I don't see the harm, but you may want to be careful about the type of wax and how it's applied in case it leaves a white residue on the grout. I intend to wax mine every so often once the weather warms up a bit, if it ever stops snowing here

If the chili isn't making you sweat enough you're not doing it right

You're thinking too much like Dennis, see a problem and find a solution. Lodge is probably thinking more like a corporation, if they cay it's OK and you cut yourself on a burr on the nubs or spill hot paella all over yourself because there isn't a full handle they may be able to be held liable - or at least spend money defending themselves in court. If the handles were part of the mold you should be fine, but they may also be worried if they're welded on that the grinder vibrations may loosen the welds. "No" is always the safe answer for modifications but it's nice to know it's working for you. At least in your imagination (hint, hint!)

The wheels on the KK are much larger than they probably need to be. This not only lets it glide across my driveway but also helped me jump the little ice dam that had built up around it from the last baby snowfall. Something tells me the plow will be coming tonight and I wanted to remove the KK from harm's way

Done. Chefjeff, if you object just let me know since it's technically your thread

Welcome aboard! You should be able to post pictures after a few more posts so make sure you've got some ready! Which color did you get?

I think the included cover for the KK works great, but could use a few alterations - I don't think Johnnyboy has much competition. We had our first snowfall last night (not much, but things are white). It turned this: Into this: Sure, Dennis cover isn't much to look at but I guess it gets the job done I was worried that I'd lose power, be confident in my ability to cook anyway, and walk out to find the KK encased in a block of ice so I couldn't open it. For those who are a bit more paranoid about ice storms the plastic bag that the KK comes in makes a great temporary cover.

What, you guys don't wash down the insides of your KKs after a cook to keep them looking new? It's really because I'm a lazy photographer when it's cold. OK, I'm lazy most of the time but it's even worse in the cold. I was using auto-everything so the metering system focused on the light colored chicken. Metering systems try to make white things into light grey so they tend to under expose with light colored scenes (lacking any other input, this is why it can be hard to shoot snow scenes unless your camera detects them). IIRC it was sunny in the first picture as well, creating more shadow and a brighter bird, this led to an underexposure issue that enhanced the smoke coloring in the cooker. The second picture had a darker bird and was a bit more overcast. This meant that the exposure for the bird was better and the lack of shadow removed some of the depth of color for the cooker interior making it look clean. If I had bothered to examine the picture or used a more deterministic spot metering technique they'd be much more similar. Sadly, the second picture is closer to reality when it comes to the inside coloring - but it's only my second cook!

Ah, I had underfilled for my first cook so I just lit a few more and added them. I didn't stir the pot to see if the old stuff was still active. I'll nab a closeup shot of the joints tomorrow, in the mean time they're much more clearly visible here.

I did save the bread before it totally deflated and just sealed the bag Dennis stopped putting on the veneer because it tended to flake of as the expansion joints, well, expanded. I've got visible joints in the base (6 if I remember correctly but I'd have to count) and lid (three) and nothing flaking off. Technically they're filled in with air, nature abhors a vacuum as much as I do but that's why I have a Roomba. I was using the KK extruded charcoal for both cooks. There were a few dying embers in the morning, probably sucking every last bit of O2 it could through the polder port that I forgot to plug. I didn't notice much less coal than I saw when I shut down the night before so if it was hanging on through the night it was doing so very slowly. I'm not sure about the next cook, I've got enough leftovers to last me a while - through the week at least. Maybe I'll use it to toast my bagel in the morning I do need to pick up some regular lump to compare and contrast, and hardwood chips. And getting the Stoker running would be nice but that would mean pulling another Ethernet cable and getting power there... So many projects, so little time!