Brined Pork Shoulder

[Jim Malter]

Hi All-

Lately I have been a bit disappointed with the results of my pork shoulders. In order to reduce dryness, I brined it (1/4 cup kosher salt, 1/4 cup brown sugar, 1 qt water) for 24 h. I use a 6 pack size Colman Cooler which just holds a 7-8 lbs shoulder and leave it in the garage (25-30 degrees, winter here). I have had good success adding 3-4 cold packs to the brine (after the salt is dissolved) in the summer. Anyway after brining, I rinsed it off and cooked at 225 indirect. Removed after 18 h @185 degrees internal, wrapped in aluminum and put back into the cooler with a towel. Pulled 4 h later-it was steaming. Best shoulder in some time.

Jim

[Sanny]

Well done! If at first you don't succeed, do it again better.

[jiarby]

Brining is not likely to get to the middle of the thick pork butt without using a tumbler or vacuum, or both.

You will have great results if you INJECT the butt with whatever marinade/sauce you like. This gets the juice and flavor right where you want it.

[Sanny]

You just go inject your OWN butt, Glenn! OUCH! Keep that inject thingy away from mine!

[Porkchop]

jiarby, you think with a shoulder or even bone-in butt that the bone would wick the brine solution deeper into the meat? of course, the smithfield shoulders are already tumbled, and turn out some pretty good stuff, much as i am normally agin' paying for salt water when i buy my pork!

sanny, we are not even gonna go there, my dear!

[Sanny]

sanny' date=' we are not even gonna go there, my dear! [/quote']

Oh my! I see what you mean. Um... didn't mean THAT!

[primeats]

Whenever I brine a pork butt, actually cure it with a nitrite composition, it takes at least a full 5 days, sometimes a week to have the cure penetrate to the center unless we inject it in several spots. Even then when I've tried to "hurry up" the process it takes 2 days to eliminate any "spots" in the center. Just my 2 cents worth. That being said, I have not tried a butt that has been brined yet on the KK. Maybe after the 1st of the year,defo for the Super Bowl!

[Syzygies]

In Glenn's honor, here's a brining mini-thesis:

I'm a huge fan of making "house-cured ham" out of any part of a pig. As Glenn points out, it's tricky achieving penetration on the bigger pieces of meat. (I find that pictures of great 'cue helps, YMMV.)

A farm supply store sells syringes meant for injecting livestock, they work better than any BBQ-specific supply, for injecting brine. Cheaper, too.

"House-cured ham" need not be as salty or vile as commercial ham, and need not include preservatives if it will be eaten or frozen quickly. It's the happy medium between ham and not-ham, and it's my favorite cooked meat these days.

The two books that have the best information on this are "Cooking by Hand" by Paul Bertolli, and "The Zuni Cafe Cookbook" by Judy Rodgers. They differ, but a mix of their opinions works great. I can summarize their advice as follows:

Paul Bertolli urges one to compute the salt in a brine, taking the meat into account. It's far easier than it sounds: Count the weight of the meat as 60% to 80% water, depending on bones and fat, include this as part of the total water, and add to the total water 3% sea salt, 1-2% by taste sugar.

One can go nuts googling various conversions between quarts, liters, pounds, grams (a spreadsheet does help if you must go this route) or one can simply use a digital scale. Choose the largest brining vessel that fits in the fridge (I favor a square plastic Cambro from a commercial cooking supply store, the measurements on the side can help for quicky 1/2 cup per gallon brines), put it on the scale and true the scale to zero. Now add the meat and weigh, true again, cover with water and weigh again. You've got the meat and water separately in grams now, computing the grams needed of salt is easy on any calculator with no conversions required:

salt = 0.03 * (water + 0.7 * meat)

Now, Paul Bertolli gives various recipes for adding allspice, peppercorns, cloves, juniper berries (pounded from whole spices), onions, carrots, celery, parsley, thyme, bay leaves to the salt/sugar brine, and bringing to 160 F before cooling. One can wing these proportions, go very easy on the spices until one knows, e.g. a gram or two of each per pound of meat is a lot.

Paul Bertolli is fearful of the meat going bad, and wants the brine in the 30's F before the meat sees the brine. I accomplish this by using way too little water, cooling, and adding ice to get the weight right. Alas, sometimes my ice doesn't all melt, making the brine too salty at first. The Catch-22 here is this method requires the meat on the premises, to be weighed and to see how much water will then fit, so it's aging while it waits for the brine to chill. And who plans far enough in advance to lose this day?

It takes one day to 4-6 days to make ham, depending on the size of the piece of meat.

Judy Rodgers is of the opposite opinion, the brine should be nearly at room temperature to speed penetration. Paul's "cold shower" is not for her! (Do put the brine in the fridge at this point, or the meat will indeed spoil.)

My single favorite cut is a bone-in loin roast, with apple wood smoke. Judy Rodgers also suggests cutting the bones away from the loin except for a strip at the bottom, so the roast opens like a book. This helps in both brining and cooking. After trying this, I'd take the suggestion further, as the slowing cooking part of the roast is the "hinge". I'd take off the bones completely to form a very generous country rib rack, and brine and cook it separated from the loin. The rib rack won't cook as far as one would like for ribs in the time the loin gets, but it's awesome cooked further in a pot of beans.

After the loin roast reaches 140 F to 160 F to taste, I finish it over a hot fire. An old Weber is useful here, unless you're Glenn and can simply apply a flame thrower swiped from the set of Arnie's film "Commando" to the charcoal in a spare ceramic cooker. (If you think I'm kidding, you've never seen Glenn in action.)

Judy Rodgers makes another crucial observation: Pull the meat out of the brine 12-24 hours before cooking, so the salt can equalize throughout the meat. Otherwise, one gets a salty "shock wave" near the surface. Obvious in hindsight, and I can taste the difference, but I didn't think of this before reading it in her words.

[primeats]

I've always used the "egg float method". I can see know I need to do ssome more homework. Thanks a lot Syz!!!

[primeats]

The reason we use nitrites is to prevent botulism, a larger cut cant reach the food safety zone internally in the required time if cooking or smoking at low temps for extended periods of time.

[Syzygies]

The reason we use nitrites is to prevent botulism' date=' a larger cut cant reach the food safety zone internally in the required time if cooking or smoking at low temps for extended periods of time.[/quote']

Hmm, are you saying that the five days of brining is worse than five days in a cryo pack at your butcher wet-aging, before identical BBQ technique?

Put differently, true cold smoking could be 150 F or lower, inducing botulism whether one brined first or not. Cooking a butt or loin roast at 225 F, one would seem by overwhelming empirical evidence to be safe, whether one brined first or not.

So if after brining, I plan to cook the meat exactly as if I had not brined it, to eat immediately, then I don't worry about instacure. Anyone cold-smoking should use instacure, and know what they're doing.

I do take botulism very seriously. Traditional sauerkraut methods risk botulism. I ferment my own hot sauce using kimchee starter, and I use a $100 pH meter and a few tablespoons of white vinegar to make sure my vats start out at a pH below risk. (One can barely taste the requisite acidity, I wonder if this would work in a brine, too?)

And I don't worry about botulism, if I'm cooking a brined piece of meat exactly as I would have cooked it, unbrined. Am I wrong? (I'm still here, knock on wood...)

[primeats]

Didn't mean to offend you, and you are correct about cold smoking-you should use an instacure if smoking at 150 . What i meant was if you can't bring the internal temp of the meat you are cooking past 140 degrees after 2 hours, you should use a cure. the temp danger zone is between 41 and 140 degrees, and around 98 degrees the bacterial count grows at an exponential rate. You are obviously an experienced 'cuer and take appropriate precautions. Looking forward to viewing your posts, I've learned a great deal in the short time I've been here already.All the best to you!

[primeats]

As far as the comercially injected products, I think brining yourself is a better method! (I also have my reservations on how effective wet aging is anyway) If you slow cook on the K,KK BGE or others I just think you should not set your cooker at below 200 degrees. Being in the food business maybe I am just being too cautious.

[Syzygies]

NIMBY

Oh my! I see what you mean. Um... didn't mean THAT!

I have no idea why this topic goes so well with barbecue. I was somehow explaining at a barbecue dinner how my college has a "Not In My Back Yard" policy prohibiting sexual relations between students and teachers, and the women at the other end of the picnic table started busting up laughing. It took a while for the rest of us to catch on...

[Syzygies]

if you can't bring the internal temp of the meat you are cooking past 140 degrees after 2 hours' date=' you should use a cure. the temp danger zone is between 41 and 140 degrees, and around 98 degrees the bacterial count grows at an exponential rate.[/quote']

Of course, no offense taken. (?! We're just talking!)

I've heard this too. No BBQ butt ever reaches 140 F in this time frame, one has to wonder... Unbroken interior stretches of meat are always safer than broken meat, store-ground hamburger is the worst risk.

[primeats]

I would assume so too. Just NYMBY!

[ThreeDJ16]

In Glenn's honor, here's a brining mini-thesis:

I'm a huge fan of making "house-cured ham" out of any part of a pig. As Glenn points out, it's tricky achieving penetration on the bigger pieces of meat. (I find that pictures of great 'cue helps, YMMV.)

A farm supply store sells syringes meant for injecting livestock, they work better than any BBQ-specific supply, for injecting brine. Cheaper, too.

"House-cured ham" need not be as salty or vile as commercial ham, and need not include preservatives if it will be eaten or frozen quickly. It's the happy medium between ham and not-ham, and it's my favorite cooked meat these days.

The two books that have the best information on this are "Cooking by Hand" by Paul Bertolli, and "The Zuni Cafe Cookbook" by Judy Rodgers. They differ, but a mix of their opinions works great. I can summarize their advice as follows:

Paul Bertolli urges one to compute the salt in a brine, taking the meat into account. It's far easier than it sounds: Count the weight of the meat as 60% to 80% water, depending on bones and fat, include this as part of the total water, and add to the total water 3% sea salt, 1-2% by taste sugar.

One can go nuts googling various conversions between quarts, liters, pounds, grams (a spreadsheet does help if you must go this route) or one can simply use a digital scale. Choose the largest brining vessel that fits in the fridge (I favor a square plastic Cambro from a commercial cooking supply store, the measurements on the side can help for quicky 1/2 cup per gallon brines), put it on the scale and true the scale to zero. Now add the meat and weigh, true again, cover with water and weigh again. You've got the meat and water separately in grams now, computing the grams needed of salt is easy on any calculator with no conversions required:

salt = 0.03 * (water + 0.7 * meat)

Now, Paul Bertolli gives various recipes for adding allspice, peppercorns, cloves, juniper berries (pounded from whole spices), onions, carrots, celery, parsley, thyme, bay leaves to the salt/sugar brine, and bringing to 160 F before cooling. One can wing these proportions, go very easy on the spices until one knows, e.g. a gram or two of each per pound of meat is a lot.

Paul Bertolli is fearful of the meat going bad, and wants the brine in the 30's F before the meat sees the brine. I accomplish this by using way too little water, cooling, and adding ice to get the weight right. Alas, sometimes my ice doesn't all melt, making the brine too salty at first. The Catch-22 here is this method requires the meat on the premises, to be weighed and to see how much water will then fit, so it's aging while it waits for the brine to chill. And who plans far enough in advance to lose this day?

It takes one day to 4-6 days to make ham, depending on the size of the piece of meat.

Judy Rodgers is of the opposite opinion, the brine should be nearly at room temperature to speed penetration. Paul's "cold shower" is not for her! (Do put the brine in the fridge at this point, or the meat will indeed spoil.)

My single favorite cut is a bone-in loin roast, with apple wood smoke. Judy Rodgers also suggests cutting the bones away from the loin except for a strip at the bottom, so the roast opens like a book. This helps in both brining and cooking. After trying this, I'd take the suggestion further, as the slowing cooking part of the roast is the "hinge". I'd take off the bones completely to form a very generous country rib rack, and brine and cook it separated from the loin. The rib rack won't cook as far as one would like for ribs in the time the loin gets, but it's awesome cooked further in a pot of beans.

After the loin roast reaches 140 F to 160 F to taste, I finish it over a hot fire. An old Weber is useful here, unless you're Glenn and can simply apply a flame thrower swiped from the set of Arnie's film "Commando" to the charcoal in a spare ceramic cooker. (If you think I'm kidding, you've never seen Glenn in action.)

Judy Rodgers makes another crucial observation: Pull the meat out of the brine 12-24 hours before cooking, so the salt can equalize throughout the meat. Otherwise, one gets a salty "shock wave" near the surface. Obvious in hindsight, and I can taste the difference, but I didn't think of this before reading it in her words.

Very good information. I have experimented with making my own hams in the past too. Though I am a huge fan of "Country Cured" hams and enjoy the salty treat. You may have inspired me to get off my butt and try this again. From what I remember, it took weeks of curing via the dry method used, so maybe I really need to check out your techniques.

BTW, welcome to the forum!

-=Jasen=-

[Majestik]

Oh my! I see what you mean. Um... didn't mean THAT!

Oh RIGHT!