Brining

[Saucier]

What does the bbq brain trust think about this question..

When you brine chicken or turkey or whatever, how much sugar do you think you actually end up consuming when you eat the finished product?

In my case specifically, chicken breasts with the standard brine recipe.

I am just wondering if I am taking something healthy and screwing it up by adding sugar?

Whaddya think.??

[ThreeDJ16]

Re: Brining

What does the bbq brain trust think about this question..

When you brine chicken or turkey or whatever, how much sugar do you think you actually end up consuming when you eat the finished product?

In my case specifically, chicken breasts with the standard brine recipe.

I am just wondering if I am taking something healthy and screwing it up by adding sugar?

Whaddya think.??

Well, the main purpose of the salt and sugar is to raise the specific gravity of the solution in order to push it into the meat. Don't want to make my head hurt here (I am sure Syz could cipher it in a minute for us), but it can't be too much actually entering the meat. Your probably only talking 6-8% (based on meat weight) liquid retained in the meat from the brining. The brine is not too terribly strong to begin with with 1-2 cups combined salt/sugar per gallon. I doubt the salt or sugar quantity in the meat is too different then when you use an exterior rub or sauce. The advantage of the brine is the extra moisture gets pushed in and distributed evenly.

-=Jasen=-

[Saucier]

Hmm

Well, I would guess it would be a higher concentration than dry rub, as I almost always use table salt on a chix breast even when it has been rubbed, as when you get much past the skin, there is no great flavor.

After brining I never add salt, as I can really taste it all the way through. I don't taste the sugar in it but it stands to reason that if the salt is being driven in the sugar is too... Hmmm

[ThreeDJ16]

Re: Hmm

Well' date=' I would guess it would be a higher concentration than dry rub, as I almost always use table salt on a chix breast even when it has been rubbed, as when you get much past the skin, there is no great flavor. [/quote']

Because it is evenly distributed when brining, you don't need to add more. But when I dry rub a whole chicken, there is a considerable amount of salt used (and/or sugar if using a BBQ sauce). But as you stated, it stays concentrated on the skin. I am still going to bet the ending quantities are not as far different as you would think. It might actually be a little more when using a dry rub since you go back and add salt to the interior meat while eating.

Can we call for an independent tester here?? Syzergies, you up for the challange?

-=Jasen=-

[Syzygies]

The Elephant in the Room

Hmm, the elephant in the room here is the smoke in the fire, not the sugar in the brine. I believe that that's ok, the way I use smoke isn't shortening my lifespan, but seriously, I wouldn't worry about the sugar in the brine. (I have used organic turbinado sugar to appease the gods, but it really doesn't matter...)

If one wants to do the math, at worst the sugar equalizes in the water content of the brine bucket. So say there's 1/4 cup sugar in 9 lbs of water brining a 3 lb chicken. Even assuming the chicken is entirely water (it's not!) a quarter of the sugar, or 1 TB, ends up in a chicken that gets split several ways. Unless you're radically avoiding prepared foods (as we do for the simple reason that we're fussy eaters) you get more sugar than that in pretty much anything else you eat.

I've only been a vegetarian when I was trying to sleep with one, so I can't claim to be an authority on politically correct eating habits. On the other hand, this is a ceramic cooker forum, I'm in good company here.

[Saucier]

LOL

Well to be clear, I don't give two s*i*s about political correctness, in food or anything else for that matter.

I just do best when not consuming large amounts of sugar, and whilst dumping a bunch of what I try to avoid into a pot, I was just scratching my head on it!

[Fast Freddie]

Brining Article

In several articles, I've mentioned the need to brine chicken or pork to produce juicier, more flavorful, and tender cooked meats. The net effect of brining is to infuse the meat with extra salt (and sometimes sugar and other flavorings) and water. But how does brining work? In this article, I examine what happens when you brine.

What does brining do?

Brining is the soaking of meat in a solution of water and salt. Additional flavorings like sugar and spices can also me added, but salt is what makes a brine a brine (just like acid makes a marinade a marinade). This soaking causes the meat to gain some saltiness and flavoring while plumping it up with water so that after cooking it still contains a lot of juices.

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The explanation for why brining works that I hear most often is that by surrounding the meat with salt water, salt and water are forced into the tissue through osmosis. Unfortunately, I've never been happy with that explanation. Osmosis is when a solvent (usually water or other liquid that can hold another substance, called the solute, in solution - like salt) moves from a low solute concentration (like the tissue of the meat) to a high solute concentration (like the salt water) through a semipermeable membrane (a surface that allows small particles to pass but not larger ones - like the cell membranes of our chicken or pork) to form an equilibrium. Hmmm... wait a minute. If that's true then water will be drawn from the low salt concentration meat to the high salt concentration salt water. At the same time, if the salt can enter the meat (which it can), then salt will be moving from salt water to meat. Won't that result in a salty, dry piece of poultry or pork?

Obviously, there's more going on than simple osmosis. It is true that salt enters the meat (it tastes more salty after brining). But why is it also more juicy? Well, when water flows out of the meat, salt flows in and begins to break down some of the proteins in the cells. In the broken down state, the molecules become more concentrated and the solute levels rise within the meat. This causes additional water to flow into the meat.

But doesn't that mean we've got the same amount of water as before brining? Nope. The cell membranes are semipermeable. They allow salt and water to flow in both directions freely, but larger molecules (like the denatured proteins and other solutes in the meat released by the salt) cannot flow out from within the cells. When the solutes of a solution on one side of a semipermeable membrane cannot pass to the other side, osmosis causes more and more solvent to move through the semipermeable membrane. This continues until the extra pressure from holding more solvent equals the rate at which solvent is "drawn" through the semipermeable membrane. (This rate is called osmotic pressure. How Stuff Works has a short article describing osmotic pressure with a diagram that may be helpful to visualize the water flow.)

What has happened is that through brining, we've caused a state change in the cells so that they will draw and hold more water than before. As we cook the meat, the heated proteins will begin to draw in tighter and squeeze out water, but, hopefully, enough water will remain to produce a juicy, tender piece of meat.

Brining Solution

So, how much salt in water is used for brining? That really depends on how long of a brine you want and how salty you want the final product. A weak brine will require a longer brining time to achieve the same saltiness as a strong brine. When I need a moderate strength brine, I use 1/2 cup (about 150 g) of table salt per gallon of water. (Higher concentrations of salt can be used to reduce brining times, but the amount of salt and the time it takes to brine is dependent on the muscle structure of the particular piece of meat.) Using kosher salt is a common practice, but different manufacturers grind the salt to different levels of coarseness, so kosher salt should be weighed before adding to water. For small amounts of salt, the salt can be dissolved into cold water, but for larger quantities it may be necessary to heat the water to dissolve the salt.

Brining Time

Always start with a cold brine. If you heated the brine, then refrigerate it before using it. The raw meat will be in the brine for a number of hours, so we don't want the temperature of the meat to rise higher than refrigerator temperatures (40°F, 4°C) if we can help it. Place the brine in a noncorrosive container like a plastic or glass container, plastic bag, or a stainless steel pot.

The brining time depends on the shape of your meat as well as the type of meat. Generally, a good rule of thumb is 2 hours per pound of solid poultry when using the 1/2 cup salt per gallon brine. Cut up poultry will have reduced brining time. For chicken pieces like breasts or thighs, 2 hours is usually enough time. Pork may take about four times as long to brine as poultry. In most cases, it's difficult to predict how fast the salt moves into the meat when you double or halve the salt in the brine, but it's worth experimenting with to have your brining "finish" at a time where you will be around to remove the meat from the brine.

When you remove the meat from the brine, rinse off the excess salt from the surface and return the meat to the refrigerator to await cooking. Pour out the brine after each brining. (No need to have a half gallon of raw meat juice infused salt water lying around growing germs...)

[trish]

Fast Freddie wrote:

Pork may take about four times as long to brine as poultry

Are you saying 8 hours per pound for pork with a solution of 1/2 c table salt per gallon water?

[Fast Freddie]

I believe it is stating chicken pieces about two hours, and pork pieces would take eight hours. I do my chicken thighs overnight. Give them a good rinse, dry and then apply rub on the chicken and under the skin. By the way, you can make a quick brine for chicken and ribs with Coke or Dr Pepper. Just add kosher salt with the soda, using the same ratio, and mix until salt is dissolved. Brine overnight. I use this mixture at contests and it works for me. This mixture doesn't give the ribs a ham flavor as some other brine's do.

First Contest - Second Place Chicken - Modesto 2006

[dub]

By the way, you can make a quick brine for chicken and ribs with Coke or Dr Pepper. Just add kosher salt with the soda, using the same ratio, and mix until salt is dissolved. Brine overnight. I use this mixture at contests and it works for me. This mixture doesn't give the ribs a ham flavor as some other brine's do.

I'm a gonna try that out FF-I imagine WacoPop would make pork chops sit up and sing!

FWIW-the Buttermilk Soak my gramma used for birds and game and stuff ain't anything but brining by another name,after all.

dub(now finding meat that isn't pre brined is the tough part)