Hope to Purchase a KK Someday and Have A Question...

[txpoker]

Hi, I'm going down the road of researching ceramic cookers, the same as many of you have done in the past I'm sure, and I have a question. But before I get to that, here's a little background. I stumbled upon Dennis's product after going back on forth on a BGE or Primo XL. I had just about committed to purchasing a Primo XL when low and behold I stumble upon the Naked Whiz's website and review of the KK. What can I say...I was blown away the minute I saw it. It was clearly in a different league than the other grills I had been researching. It was immediately obvious that the quality of materials and craftsmanship that went into the KK far exceeded that of its "competition." I quote competition because I really don't think its fair to lump KK in with the others but there really isn't another product to compare it to.

So an immediate obsession with the KK developed and I had to know more. Through navigating the KK website and forum I happened upon Dennis's contact info. Not even an hour had passed from when I had left a message on one of Dennis's phone numbers and my phone rings with Dennis on the other end. He went into great detail with me over his product and it was abundantly clear that the KK is his baby. I go into length to describe this situation just to make clear to all who are reading this that I am COMPLETELY sold on the quality and customer service that backs up this product. I want one, plain and simple. The only question I have is....

"How does the food the KK produces compare with the food that the BGE or Primo XL turns out?"

That's it. I have no doubt the KK exceeds the others on the market in all of the aspects I discussed earlier. But can you tell the difference in a pork butt, brisket, steak, or even pizza that is cooked on the KK vs. one that is cooked on the BGE or Primo? I LOVE cooking BBQ and I'm VERY interested in learning how to cook pizzas so if there are any cooks out there that owned a BGE or Primo that has switched over to the KK...those are the folks that I'd like to hear from. I'm looking for an honest answer. If someone comes on here and says, "you know what, the quality of pizza the KK produces is very similar to the BGE," it will not deter me from purchasing a KK someday. If someone says, "my brisket on the Primo XL is every bit as juicy and tender as the one I produce on the KK," it won't sway me one bit. But if the quality of food from the KK DOES in fact exceed the BGE or Primo, then I'd LOVE to hear about that. If the KK is a FAR SUPERIOR pizza cooker than the BGE, tell me about it. Thanks and I look forward to your response.

[Curly]

Well, I'd say that's where the superiority really stops. All of the ceramics (if they are able to keep a seal) can produce fabulous foods.

But that cs you've already experienced will continue til you or Dennis die...that's the big difference! Who knows, if you or your predecessors post a lot of food porn he may extend the lifetime warrenty for several generations

[Syzygies]

It just dawned on me that my best mountain bike cost the same (ten years ago) as the Komodo Kamado that we had delivered yesterday. Nearly to the penny.

Are plenty of people happy riding $500 mountain bikes? Sure.

We have a working cooker from a different company of essentially the same size, in sufficient disrepair to concern the appearance-oriented. (Larger than a BGE, and I believe, the Primo XL, and the extra size often matters.) Nevertheless, we bought a KK. My impression is that Dennis designs then prices; this is simply the best cooker he knows how to make (this year). Bicyclists who love the sport invariably buy the best bike they can afford, and can tell the difference. My KK serial number is 592; think "limited edition sports car" one can actually succeed in paying for.

In the Japanese woodworking apprentice system, there's a notion that one shouldn't use the best tools until one has demonstrated mastery of lesser tools. (And there are planes in this price range, they think of them like a Strad violin!) I've always differed on this point, it is easier to learn anything on the best tool one can justify buying.

Better tools make better results possible, by virtue of predictability, responsiveness, the pleasure from use that keeps one practicing. They don't guarantee better results.

Cut to the chase: Why did we buy? The things that go wrong with cookers are far less likely to go wrong with a KK. It's made with fundamentally different materials, by a different process. The right materials, and the right process, if you can afford it. And the tolerances are much tighter. I've slept through the night to find a too-hot fire on my old cooker in the morning. Not often; people cook great in open pits in Texas, it just takes attention. For me, a scarce resource.

For the gamut from barbecue to pizza, tandoor, cooking with fire is a part of our daily lives, so we decided that this was worth it.

[JeffB]

I would actually be surprised if anyone responded with a declaration that food on the KK was that much better than food on another ceramic. I haven't owned another ceramic but as best as I can tell the principle of cooking and general operation are all the same. If you have read through the Naked Whiz's review you will know that the thicker walls of a KK make it a more efficient cooker than a BGE (cooler to the touch as well) and that means less moisture is carried away from the food, which could result in moister results. But, no idea if that truly translates into a measurable difference in taste.

IMHO when you buy a KK you aren't buying it because it can produce better results than the other ceramics, you are buying it because of all those differences that you already know. I also came to know about KK through the Whiz's review so I can sympathize with how you feel.

[Conodo12]

Hey Jeff - Get prepared to be surprised!

I would say that the KK makes the BEST rotisserie chicken of any of the ceramics out there. Hands down. Period! Of course, it helps that the KK is the ONLY ceramic cooker that lets you Rotis!!!

Feature for feature, pound for pound, there is nothing better for the backyard enthusiast than a KK. That's not blind pumping - that's been my experience after owning many different style cookers from a multitude of vendors. Save yourself the experimentation that I have already done - go get your KK!

[Amphoran]

The non-circular shape of the OTB KK actually creates a more even heat profile than you get with the BGE or (single)K or the round Primo, and evenness of heat distribution goes a long way when cooking thin pizzas at high temperature.

The other great advantage of the KK over the large egg is its sheer capacity. I started my journey looking at eggs, and like you, ended up here. One of the things that ruled the eggs out fairly early is that you can't really cook for a crowd on one of them.

With the KK you can. My daughter got married last week, and I threw a cookout for all the out of town relatives. I fed seventy people from one KK. Four pork butts overnight, then three spatchcocked chickens with pot beans going above them, then finished with brats and burgers for the non-bbq conscious (yes, there are some in every family....).

Mike

[JeffB]

Hey Jeff - Get prepared to be surprised!

I would say that the KK makes the BEST rotisserie chicken of any of the ceramics out there. Hands down. Period! Of course, it helps that the KK is the ONLY ceramic cooker that lets you Rotis!!!

Haha. Burned on a technicality

[trudeto]

i agree with just about everything above. But I think the thing that leapt out at me from the above comments is that there's just far less likelihood of things to go wrong with the KK than other cookers. I don't know how many times have 'settled' for something just to save a few bucks (I am thinking of power tools, my lawnmower, car tires etc!). Then every time you use it, you wish you had spent a little more to get what you REALLY wanted. When you save those few dollars, things still work, but you seem to be left lacking. I will guarantee you won't be left wishing when you get a KK. Its gotten to the point that Dennis doesn't even offer anything less than the best when you order a KK. Pick the color and now size, and the rest just comes. There was a day where Dennis offered several different finish packages, some with better bearings, seals, heavier grates etc, but not any more. You just get the best....that is incredibly well built.....and reliable......with a great community. Period. You will not have buyers remorse with a KK!! .....and i just got my pizaa stone from Dennis this week and can't wait to try it out this weekend!!! Tom

[Curly]

...I would say that the KK makes the BEST rotisserie chicken of any of the ceramics out there. Hands down...

Well now, that's a good point

[danioro]

Hi there TX

I just got my #598 KK and have been simply blown away by the cooker. QUALITY screams from every tile, weld, gleaming reflection in the sun! No need for Viagra with a cooker like this!

I will post photos and my experiences with cooking. Suffice it to say that one of the reasons I got the KK is that one of my patients is a roving judge for the big national BQ competitions. He needless to say, knows his stuff and he over the years has tried em all. His opinion is that the KK is head and shoulders obove all others in ease of use and build quality.

Can one get good Q from other cookers? Of course. Will the experience be easier, more satisfying with the KK? I gotta say that so far, for this southern boy the answer looks to be a resounding YES!

Dan

[Hitman]

Every single thing I have cooked on my KK has tasted better. Main thing I noticed immediately is how moist the meat is.

Even burgers taste better. I did some Bison burgers a few weeks ago, best burger I ever tasted. Bison meat is extremely lean, and on a Weber you have to be really careful to avoid overcooking, and ending up with a dry patty. My wife likes her ground meat to be cooked well done, so it was always a challenge. On the KK, her patty was very moist and flavorful.

I also now have a nice pizza stone, and a good instructional video. Can't wait to start cranking out some gourmet pies. Can't do that very well on a Weber!

[primeats]

I used to complain to my hunny," why do you bring home these end cut strip steaks?" We own a prime meat market, I don't sell these end cuts because of the sinew running through the steak. The first night I grilled them on the KK I was amazed at the tenderness, granted they were USDA Prime, but the "sinew" absolutely dissolved! That and the added wood chips gave them a positively sublime flavor and texture profile. Maybe this can be accomplished with other "ceramics", All I can base my experience on is the KK! Three words...GO FOR IT! Why on God's Green Earth would anyone shell out over 3 g's for a Wolf gasser (like my best friend! Who has had numerous issues with it right out of the gate) when this appliance is so much more versatile? And customer service? Dennis invented the word! KK sells a few every week and Dennis manages to talk to everyone who has issues from color selection to mathematical equations involving thermal load and expansion rates. And when he ramps up to hundreds per week, you should expect no less! Forgive my rambling. I've drunk the koolaide, as well as a fair amount of gin!

[DennisLinkletter]

Just had to bite

The only question I have is....

"How does the food the KK produces compare with the food that the BGE or Primo XL turns out?"

That's it. I have no doubt the KK exceeds the others on the market in all of the aspects I discussed earlier. But can you tell the difference in a pork butt, brisket, steak, or even pizza that is cooked on the KK vs. one that is cooked on the BGE or Primo? I LOVE cooking BBQ and I'm VERY interested in learning how to cook pizzas so if there are any cooks out there that owned a BGE or Primo that has switched over to the KK...those are the folks that I'd like to hear from. I'm looking for an honest answer. If someone comes on here and says, "you know what, the quality of pizza the KK produces is very similar to the BGE," it will not deter me from purchasing a KK someday. If someone says, "my brisket on the Primo XL is every bit as juicy and tender as the one I produce on the KK," it won't sway me one bit. But if the quality of food from the KK DOES in fact exceed the BGE or Primo, then I'd LOVE to hear about that. If the KK is a FAR SUPERIOR pizza cooker than the BGE, tell me about it. Thanks and I look forward to your response.

If one accepts the premise that the more heat the ceramic cooker holds, a smaller volume of fuel needs to be burned to maintain a given low and slow temp, this lower volume of fuel burned means less airflow and of course less airflow means your meat will not get as dried out.

It is a well known fact that a twice insulated KK holds in MUCH more heat than any of the glazed dense material ceramic cookers.. Whether obvious or not, the insulation's performance will result in more moisture in your meat.

Common sense will tell you that the uniform distance from the ceiling of the KK to the grill or pizza will result in more even radiant heat/reflective cooking.

It's pretty much impossible to compare even two KK's because of the difference in two different cuts of meat. Different of meat differ can differ in so many ways besides just their grades.. Champion BBQ chefs can cook on metal monsters and get great results but the learning curve is HUGE..

First time Q'ers will consistently get good to great results the first times they cook on a KK.

[mguerra]

dittos

"First time Q'ers will consistently get good to great results the first times they cook on a KK."

True. My first cook was a low and slow pork butt, never did it before. Just had read about how to do it on a multitude of BBQ forums. It was perfect. After a few months, you'll forget about the expense and wish you had a KK your entire adult life.

[txpoker]

All, thanks for the responses. One of the posters above hit the nail on the head when talking about possibly regretting purchasing one of the other brands. I think if I did that then I would feel the same way. I've decided to get a KK, plain and simple. The even heat distribution is a HUGE plus in my opinion, especially since I want to figure out the pizza thing. The KK is a little more than I'd like to spend right now, so I'll just have to save up for a little longer. Again, thanks for all the responses and thanks again Dennis for returning my call as quickly as you did the other day. That in and of itself was a big determining factor to go with the KK.

[Syzygies]

especially since I want to figure out the pizza thing.

Bingo! One can make pizza in one of those kid's plastic ovens from the 1960's that use a 40 watt light bulb. But real outdoor pizza ovens are serious beasts.

The KK is just big enough to make great pizza, and Dennis is the only manufacturer I'd trust to make a Kamado of this scale. There are a number of inexpensive Kamado manufacturers that make smaller cookers, but they all look far less flexible to me. A microwave isn't an oven, and "Low & Slow" and "grilling" together are a small part of the big picture: Cook anything you want, outside, better than you could inside.

[jnoble]

is there really a difference

HI Txpoker. Good question. Does the food taste better whether cooked on a KK or another ceramic?

I"m responding, not because I know, but because I suspect that the answer is that, this isn't the point.

Sounds crazy, but we are buying a tool. A cheap saw will still cut wood, but the handle won't feel exactly rigtht in your hand and the blade will rust more easily.

Same with this. I have been researching ceramic cookers for a long time. Last week I bought a Primo Junior.

These ceramic cookers are much more expensive than the steel weber charcoal kettles that we usually cook on.

So you want to know that you have a well made tool.

I am sure the Primo will make amazing food. But the fit and finish was not right, it did not feel secure on its footing, and I realized that I would have to replace the felt gasket and the cheap thermometer.

It just didn't make me happy.

So I called the dealership today and I am paying a truck return fee, and will be ordering one of these crazy expensive KK 23 inchers.

Yowza.

Never try to save money on your tools man. We can save money when the paper towels go on sale.

John Noble

[bryan]

Re: is there really a difference

Never try to save money on your tools man. We can save money when the paper towels go on sale.

John Noble

Well said John Noble.

The problem with the Komodo Kamado comes in when you must pick which Grandchild or Great Grandchild to give it to 30-40 years from now.

[Hephaestus]

Hi jnoble,

Take it from somebody who already owns one of the other ceramic cookers. You did the right thing by returning the Primo. There is no comparison when it comes to the simplicity of use the control of the temperature etc. between the two cookers. You will be very happy

[Syzygies]

Re: is there really a difference

Does the food taste better whether cooked on a KK or another ceramic?

I came from a Kamado #7 that I drove into the ground (shed its tiles, cracked, but lots of good cooking) over five years. I figured, the Komodo Kamado, much nicer fit & finish, lasts many times longer, but similar enough shape and size that I could jump in with no learning curve.

I was wrong. Aesthetics aside, a fundamental difference in how the KK cooks comes from the fact that it is both very tight and very well insulated. One can get to and hold a temperature quicker, with less fuel. Early on, I made plenty of mistakes, trying to drive the KK as if it were a K7. But one learns.

I am of the opinion that traditional low & slow brisket is the single hardest entry in the barbecue repertoire. Just saying this opens up a can of worms, for this approach to brisket is easy on a ceramic cooker, if nearly impossible on an offset firebox cooker. And one school here favors quick, higher heat briskets involving foiling. The intensity of the debate supports my belief (shared by many others) that brisket responds to the synergy of skill and equipment.

Nevertheless, brisket made this way comes out better in a KK than it ever did in a K7. I can only speculate why: Tight, well-insulated, so less airflow. Does this dry the meat less? I can just imagine Harold McGee lecturing me that this has nothing to do with meat drying out, and if it did, a water pan would correct any differences in cooker tightness.

Perhaps. My intuition likes a very slow airflow. No one who can tell armagnac from cognac from moonshine would dispute that distillation is very sensitive to every variable. My hunch, supported by experience, is that so is barbecue.

Of course, you buy a KK because you want it.