Low Temp Slowwwwwww Eye Round

[bryan]

10:20 am. Put 2.5 eye round on. Meat temp 55. KK at 99. Guru 108

12:02 Meat temp 97. KK at 132. Guru 108

12:20 KK 137 and climbing.

Closed Guru vent. Closed top vent to just off seal. Plugged Probe hole (W/wires in)

I want to keep KK below 130. Has anyone run a KK at 130 or below? Can it be done?

[Syzygies]

The "danger zone" is below 140 F for culturing various bugs, and Sous Vide technique comes perilously close to this limit. In the case of restaurants this draws unwanted public health attention; Sous Vide was nearly made illegal in New York City.

I've never heard of Sous Vide going below 140 F. Cold-smoking does, but the food is already preserved (cheese) or preservative is added (meat).

I started the fermentation of another batch of hot sauce (same method as kimchi) and coincidentally we made fermented Issan sausage in my Thai classes, by methods that set off all sorts of alarms for me, e.g Botulism in Alaska. But when one reads up on this, the factors for anything going "off" are very complex; guidelines are necessarily conservative and fix only one factor at a time. Did the rice somehow protect our sausage, or guarantee a head start for the "good" bugs? Does smoke itself move the danger zone, for barbecue?

Nevertheless, I've got to ask why? I'm reminded of mushroom hunting with friends. Aside from chanterelles which even I can identify, and even with friends that take spore prints before consumption, they didn't taste good enough to warrant the risk.

[bryan]

Nevertheless, I've got to ask why?

I'm trying to duplicate info referenced in Cooks Ill. Jan-Feb 80, p6. Cooking roast at desired done temp could take 20-30 hrs. Resulting in tender juicy roast.

12:59 KK 152. Meat 106. Guru set no change.

[bryan]

Re: Low Temp Slowwwwwww Eye Round

10:20 am. Put 2.5 eye round on. Meat temp 55. KK at 99. Guru 108

12:02 Meat temp 97. KK at 132. Guru 108

12:20 KK 137 and climbing.

Closed Guru vent. Closed top vent to just off seal. Plugged Probe hole (W/wires in)

I want to keep KK below 130. Has anyone run a KK at 130 or below? Can it be done?

1:02 Meat 107 KK 153 Guru set 89

1:25 Meat 111 KK 139 Guru reset 108

Could have high temp been caused by Guru overrun? Have full basket but only lit and added one piece of lump w/torch.

Did add 1(1x3) piece of pecan.

I am at sea level w/outside temp of 89 deg.

[Syzygies]

I'm trying to duplicate info referenced in Cooks Ill. Jan-Feb 80' date=' p6. Cooking roast at desired done temp could take 20-30 hrs. Resulting in tender juicy roast.[/quote']

Yes I've heard of this. Once upon a time my folks went on motor home caravans, and people were assigned to cook roasts this long.

The target temperature was more like 180 F to 200 F, however. Are you generalizing, adapting this method to medium-rare, or did Cooks Illustrated actually specify a target temperature below 140 F?

[bryan]

Are you generalizing' date=' adapting this method to medium-rare, or did Cooks Illustrated actually specify a target temperature below 140 F?[/quote']

He cooked the eye at 130. Was not satisfied w/pale looks, but fascinated by/texture. He did again but pre browned in 600 skillet.

Due to fact most ovens will not go below 240 he rewrote the recipe.

The KK operates below 250, so............................

My KK is now 129 and meat is 113. Going to start working pit temp up for constant 130. (pit set 121 Guru fan blinking on/off - reset to 105)

2:20 KK 126. Meat 114 Guru set 105

Meat as desired has slowed down cooking.

[bryan]

I removed roast from KK at 4:30 temp was 127. I thought it would continue to climb to 130. It did not. Roast was Med-Rare, tender and juicy.

[Firemonkey]

So are you still alive?

[bryan]

So are you still alive?

Oh yea.. feeling great. Will do again but run better fire start... to control beginning heat spike.

Could be the KK answer to Sous vide

[Conodo12]

I'm trying to duplicate info referenced in Cooks Ill. Jan-Feb 80, p6. Cooking roast at desired done temp could take 20-30 hrs. Resulting in tender juicy roast.

12:59 KK 152. Meat 106. Guru set no change.

Hey Cook - I thought from the above quote that you were shooting for a 20-30 hour cook? I see that the roast got to 127 but are you sure that it just did not plateau? I low and slow my pork shoulders @ 227 for 16 hours. It does plateau at about 167 or so degrees for a long time. Then it starts climbing again. If what you are doing is true Sous Vide, you should be able to let that roast go for several more hours to see how it turns out. Then again, you might be eating shoe leather too! I like the experimenting and the KK does hold moisture better than anything that I have ever used for outdoor cooking. Maybe a longer cook is in order?

[bryan]

Hey Cook - I thought from the above quote that you were shooting for a 20-30 hour cook? I see that the roast got to 127 but are you sure that it just did not plateau? quote]

I was trying for 20-30 hrs. I don't think it will end up near that many though.

This is where I am, now.

5:30 eye 127 KK 160 Guru off cut roast = RARE, juicy and tender. Tasted good, and I'm still alive.

Notes:

Need better fire control. (went out twice)

Plus other than the time from 2:18 to 2:43 the KK temp was over the desired 130 control time. (140-160)

Suggestions for 2nd Kook (To control KK at 130-135)

1- Try larger roast (5#) for better temp controls.

2- Set starting pit temp 15 deg over air temp.

3- Light lump in center of KK, not on front edge.

4- Starting fire must be tiny. (KK does not want give excess heat up)

[bryan]

Help

Feel free to jump in and give it a try.

Sous-vide "under vac" can not be on a KK, BUT... how close can we come? W/electronic assist I think the Komodo-Kamado can Kook at the desired take up temp. That seems to me to be what "Sous-vide" is all about. Can a Komodo-Kamado unit do this w/the same results and without the vac.

That is the answer I am looking for and I believe it can.

For a failure that tough piece of meat turned out pretty damm good with just mayo, salt, and pepper. No soaking - if you know what I mean.

[Paswesley]

Hey, Cook_Shack, did you foil the round roast? I tried a round roast and it was my first failure. I did not foil it. It was around ten pounds. I cooked it at 220 for about twelve hours to an internal temp of 190. Most of the surface of the roast was hard as water buffalo horn. I had to throw away the entire surface of the roast down to about 1/2 inch. I was able to pull it and served it with BBQ sauce and everyone liked it, but since it did not turn out the way I wanted it to I count it as a failure. So, did you wrap it in foil, and if so, when did you remove the foil? If I was to cook another round the same way as before, except start out with foil, when would I remove the foil? Thanks, Paswesley

[bryan]

Hey' date=' Cook_Shack, did you foil the round roast? I tried a round roast and it was my first failure. I did not foil it. It was around ten pounds. I cooked it at 220 for about twelve hours to an internal temp of 190. Most of the surface of the roast was hard as water buffalo horn. I had to throw away the entire surface of the roast down to about 1/2 inch. I was able to pull it and served it with BBQ sauce and everyone liked it, but since it did not turn out the way I wanted it to I count it as a failure. So, did you wrap it in foil, and if so, when did you remove the foil? If I was to cook another round the same way as before, except start out with foil, when would I remove the foil? Thanks, Paswesley[/quote']

No foil. Am trying again tomorrow. (Tue)

[mguerra]

You cannot do a traditional low and slow cook for a round roast, a center cut chuck roast and several others. These very lean cuts, which are not naturally tender, are almost pure muscle with very little intra-muscular fat and inter-muscular connective tissue. They come out like shoe leather if cooked low and slow in air. At least un-foiled. Only certain cuts do well with a low and slow. Consider that a brisket is generally cooked low and slow. Yet the flat, which is also very lean, can come out dry at the end of a low and slow. That's why some people don't like doing briskets; the point, which is well marbled, comes out fine, the flat might not. You can get good results with the lean cuts with a variation of the low and slow. Do a stew in a cast iron dutch oven with some liquid that has a little acidity, like tomato. The prolonged cook in liquid with a little acidity can really tenderize these lean muscular cuts. Perhaps a foiled cook, I have not yet tried that. Somewhere I posted a recipe I got off the Primo forums for Italian Pork Stew. You can use it for pork or lean beef like round roasts and so on.

[bryan]

You cannot do a traditional low and slow cook for a round roast' date=' a center cut chuck roast and several others. These very lean cuts, which are not naturally tender, are almost pure muscle with very little intra-muscular fat and inter-muscular connective tissue. They come out like shoe leather if cooked low and slow in air. At least un-foiled. Only certain cuts do well with a low and slow. Consider that a brisket is generally cooked low and slow. Yet the flat, which is also very lean, can come out dry at the end of a low and slow. That's why some people don't like doing briskets; the point, which is well marbled, comes out fine, the flat might not. You can get good results with the lean cuts with a variation of the low and slow. Do a stew in a cast iron dutch oven with some liquid that has a little acidity, like tomato. The prolonged cook in liquid with a little acidity can really tenderize these lean muscular cuts. Perhaps a foiled cook, I have not yet tried that. Somewhere I posted a recipe I got off the Primo forums for Italian Pork Stew. You can use it for pork or lean beef like round roasts and so on.[/quote']

How many eye rounds have you cooked low and slow?

[mguerra]

Also you don't need to cook these lean roasts to 190. That's a good finish temp for a brisket or pork butt, but WAY over does a roast. 125 to 145 can work all right.

[bryan]

Also you don't need to cook these lean roasts to 190. That's a good finish temp for a brisket or pork butt' date=' but WAY over does a roast. 125 to 145 can work all right.[/quote']

125 is a little raw for me. My last one came off at 127. TENDER!!! JUICY!!!

135 should have been great for me.

[mguerra]

Four. One to 190, one to 160 one to 140 and one to 130. At that time I was thinking a low and slow must be great for ANY meat because of how the pork butts come out. An experienced cook or chef could have disabused me of that notion. Ultimately I found they cook better at about 300 to a finish temp of 130ish. However, they are not inherently tender. A cheap pork butt is so moist, tender and tasty compared to any roast, I stopped cooking roasts. They just aren't that gratifying. But I will cook one once in a while, cube it, and then do the stew with that. THAT is good!

[bryan]

For the four cooks what temps did you cook at and on what unit?