dstr8 Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 Been using Masienda whole corn since Jorge started Masienda to make nixtamal masa for corn tortillas. I've literally made a thousand or more tortillas over the years, but the elusive puff evades me most of the time. Have tried various pans/griddles/Baking Steels using two temp process, single temp, wetter masa, spritzing the griddling tortillas with water, etc., but still can't consistently get the puff. Have played with varying the calcium hydroxide to water & corn ratio; doesn't make a difference regarding the puff. Typically, I cook the corn kernels in 'cal for 30-minutes (+/- depending on the corn variety) with a 12-24 hour room temp steep. I have played with completely rinsing the corn kernels clean of pericarp to leaving considerable pericarp, but no perceivable benefit either way related to 'the puff'. I use my Cusinart food processor to get the cooked corn kernels to a very fine consistency. But reaching the puff kingdom consistently has been a problem. We prefer the taste of whole kernel corn/maiz by making the nixtamal masa from scratch compared to any pre-made masa, Masienda's included. Having said that, the puff is rare even using Masienda's prepared masa. I also make flour tortillas and never a problem getting them to puff . Others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekobo Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 Wow. That's a lot of different variables you have tested Dan. I get reliable puffing results whenever I use a very hot metal griddle/comal. The mix seems to matter much less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVPAUL Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 @dstr8 below are tips from “Masa” book. To be honest I get “puff” but not a full puff of the whole diameter of the tortilla…..like you see in the photos! They still taste great. good luck, Tortilla Puff tips Maybe putt Masa in Mixer for 3 to 5 minutes. Let rest at least 30 minutes covered Proper Moisture - Make a ball and flatten with hands- edges should not crack. Compression - Press tortilla and turn 180 degrees (Already do this). If too thick it will not puff. If too thin it will not puff. Comal temp - Should be at least 400 F and up to 650F. Flip tortillas 3 times. Quickly for the first to flips and the Puff usually occurs on the 3rd flip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstr8 Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 ^ Have the Masa book and have tried many different comal temps to 550F, and even the two pan/comal, 2-temp method from Rick Bayless, but the dang puff eludes me. Maybe, I need to focus on pressing slightly thicker than I do. Its funny, well not really 😁, but on the rare occasion I do get a tortilla to puff, for the life of me I can't figure out why 😁. Having said everything I have, at least the flavor is good with/without the puff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syzygies Posted January 7 Author Report Share Posted January 7 On 1/6/2024 at 7:47 AM, dstr8 said: I use my Cusinart food processor to get the cooked corn kernels to a very fine consistency. That has to be it. For centuries, masa was stone ground "a mano" using a metate. Modern expediencies involve using powerful grinders, far more powerful than a food processor; Masienda sells a $1995 Molinito that does a credible job. However, I went to an acclaimed restaurant that let me tour their kitchen to see their Molinito, and my friends at table thought my tortillas were clearly better. One can see all sorts of possible confirmation biases here, such as a restaurant needing to "lean in" to an obviously artisanal style, for diners who can't discern "traditional but better" quality unassisted. Cutting isn't grinding. The best way I know to grind is using a Premier Chocolate Refiner, an upgraded version of advice by Bricia Lopez to use an Indian wet grinder. The process is tedious, less tedious with experience, but it produces fundamentally different results. The friend who introduced me to fresh masa now has the Vita-Prep commercial blender from my former New York apartment. Working too wet then mixing in masa harina, he still wasn't satisfied with the results. For this purpose a Vita-Prep is far more powerful than a Cuisinart (I have both). How one cuts matters. For a parallel problem, Serious Eats' The Best Way to Mince Garlic details the significance of different techniques. I'd say "not puffing" is a symptom, not the root issue. For a parallel problem, consider crema on an Italian espresso. People expect to see crema as a certificate of quality and correct technique, but it's actually easily manipulated detritus in the beans, independent of flavor. Here, based on experience, I'm not concerned that you can't puff but I'm profoundly suspicious of Cuisinart masa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstr8 Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 ^ All over the type of grinder/mill dealio but even when using Masienda masa, the puff eludes me. I'm going to try pressing the tortillas a little thicker next time to see if that makes a difference. We like thin tortillas but that might be getting in the way of the puff. As you surely know, getting the full puff results in a much more pliable tortilla that holds fillings w/o cracking so there is much more to it than the aesthetic of puffing during cooking. Yes, I'm all over all things espresso...my aka elsewhere on the inter web is "spressomon" 😁... Thank you for all your input: Much appreciated! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekobo Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 (edited) The irony of this conversation @dstr8 was that my first time tortilla flipper for New Year's was getting the puff and smashing down the tortillas because he thought it was a bad thing! I had to explain to him that he wouldn't find himself a Mexican husband if he didn't demonstrate his tortilla puff. I find that tortillas used straight from the heat tend to crack and that a few minutes rest in a hot, lidded dish gives them just the right flexibility. We went to a lot of trouble to heat up our tortillas on a griddle when we came to serve people at the party but I now wonder if it would not have been just as good to stick them in the microwave and wrap them in a towel to keep them warm and stop them drying out. A friend of ours has been re-heating his in a steam oven. He reports good puff on reheating and, more importantly, good eating. So, we have found lots of ways to puff but even when there is no puff a little rest seems to do the trick. Edited January 8 by tekobo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syzygies Posted April 9 Author Report Share Posted April 9 We made way too much masa for a party last Sunday, starting with 600g corn which is pretty much the limit for wet grinding in my Premier Chocolate Refiner (fancy Indian wet grinder). I ended up with a pound of leftover masa, even after making too many tortillas. When I gave my New York masa grinder to @PVPAUL he sent us a dry ice freezer care package, including mole, and tamales, which inspired us. Last night I used some leftover KK pulled pork in a riff on a Serious Eats tamale recipe (I grilled the peppers outside on my Solo Stove fire pit). These were the best tamales I've eaten in my life. Tamales are a world changer: One can improvise fillings even more broadly than for tacos, the masa can be frozen more effectively if it will be turned into tamale dough, ... I've always thought mole sauce was one Holy Grail I wanted to master, and yet I didn't understand how to use mole sauce. Tamales might be second night leftovers for a Mexican, but I'm happy to prepare mole sauce to use in batches for tamales. LIGHT BULB TIME: Grinding nixtamal into masa in a wet grinder can take some tending, because an Indian wet grinder is tuned for wetter mixtures such as dosa batter. But one makes tamale dough from masa by adding lard or oil, water or stock... ?? If I make my tamale dough straight from nixtamal in a wet grinder, including all wet ingredients, can I just run the grinder unattended, as if I were making dosa batter ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syzygies Posted April 9 Author Report Share Posted April 9 (I freely recognize how absurd my tamales look. Hopefully I freed others to not worry about appearances. It was the height of arrogance to just "I know how to cook!" wing it, rather than watching a few tamale making videos. Tamales really are much less work than this!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syzygies Posted April 9 Author Report Share Posted April 9 (Someone should send @PVPAUL a McLaren 750S Spider, to see what he cooks for them!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekobo Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 Tee hee @Syzygies. Your posts sometimes go over my head but this time I have decided that you must have been smoking those tamales when you wrote the last post. At the very least, thinking that makes me feel smart rather than the dumb kid in the class. Tamales looking like a good masa preserver. Game changer for me has been finding that frozen corn tortillas come up really well when you reheat them on a comal. Awesome news because it means I can make a load of masa in one go, make up the tortillas and have them ready to go with no fuss whenever I want a taco. I can see you all shaking your heads and wagging your fingers but give it a go if you aren't already secretly doing this. You can even get the magical puff during the reheating process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVPAUL Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 Hey @tekobo your post made me laugh….I too have a hard time comprehending @Syzygies post and find myself reading them over so I can hopefully understand and learn from them!!!! Both of your post made me think of many topics for discussion. I’ll comment on a few of them. Freezing masa / tamale dough. I tried an experiment once where I froze a small quantity of prepared masa for tamales……my results at the time were NOT favorable. If my memory serves me right it seems like the texture was funky / not like it was before and I never went that way and scrapped that idea. Freezing tortillas, I do this often with our family tortilla recipe which uses flour and cornmeal and they are fine this way…not as good as fresh but still very good. I have not done this with homemade masa tortillas but am intrigued to try this knowing you’ve had success with this. Tamales - Fully made tamales freeze well. Our standard family recipe calls for 7lbs of masa and we yield about 100-120 tamales from this. We will vacuum seal these and if you steam them when reheating they are almost as fresh as when coming out of the original kettle. Masa is pretty forgiving so I think there is a pretty good range of viscosity that will still yield good tamales. Many years ago (mid 1970’s) my father went to Mexico to visit family. During the visit we learned a trick that we believe makes our masa lighter / or more fluffy. I will cook a cup of rice in microwave with a higher ratio of water to rice then typical. We also add some beef boullion to the water. Once done we add a little more water and blend this and add this straight into the masa. Don’t tell my family I shared this secret with you!!! I also have a recipe for taking fresh sweet corn, cooking and making this into a masa of sorts for a sweet tamale…..still working on this one but just shows you wide ranges of corn for making masa. Tamale fillings - Yes you can put pretty much anything you want for filling in these. We have done a number of different fillings, but it always seems like the family favorite is pork that is pan fried and cooked in homemade mole sauce. One funny story is that many years ago I was watching an episode of one of Anthony Bourdain’s travel food shows where he is somewhere in Mexico. In the episode (that is somewhat tequila fueled) Anthony is sampling an Iguana tamale….with a tail sticking out of the end of it…..he leans into the camera and quietly says……this is the worst tamale I have ever eaten!!!! Buying me a McLauren Spider……..Ha Ha. Many years ago we had a school / church auction in which we put up a Mexican dinner for a party of 6 that ended up in the voice auction. I was a little apprehensive ……thinking that it would fetch maybe $250 - $500….. I was shocked that we sold it for $1,200 and because it did so well they immediately asked if I would do it again….we ended up selling 2 more at $1,200 so we raised $3,600 for the kids….so to speak! Needless to say I felt very much under pressure to cook a much larger menu than I was originally thinking. No I could not cook up a meal worthy of a McLauren Spider……but hey if you want to send me one I will not turn you down!!! On a bit of a high today, as we had a video call to meet our first grandchild as my daughter lives out of state! Looking forward to meeting her soon!!! All the best, Paul 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syzygies Posted April 11 Author Report Share Posted April 11 (edited) 20 hours ago, PVPAUL said: I also have a recipe for taking fresh sweet corn, cooking and making this into a masa of sorts for a sweet tamale…..still working on this one but just shows you wide ranges of corn for making masa. Yes! We're getting closer to fresh corn season (having past fresh fava bean season) and we love the idea, but we've overdone dressed kernels off the cob. (Olive oil, salt, pepper. A great add-in for pasta or tacos, but one can only eat so much straight.) I thought of fresh corn as a masa add-in for tortillas, but that's a poor idea. Tweaking tamale dough with fresh corn sounds great, I'll experiment too. Along the same lines I love the idea and taste of plantains, particularly ripe plantains, but I can't bring myself to keep preparing and eating fried slices, as is the common side to rice and beans in Caribbean cooking. In her Oaxacan cookbook, Diane Kennedy notes that plantain was a masa filler when corn ran short. That sounds great as a tamale tweak, too. Edited April 11 by Syzygies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekobo Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 On 4/10/2024 at 8:02 PM, PVPAUL said: On a bit of a high today, as we had a video call to meet our first grandchild as my daughter lives out of state! Looking forward to meeting her soon!!! That's super exciting. Congratulations. The only blessing or wish I can offer is that she should grow up to love and enjoy food. Look how much fun we get to have! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
