What are the expansion cuts for?

[johnnyboy]

I don't understand an expansion joint not being a seam.

I'm thinking expansion joints like on bridges; maybe that's the problem.

Otherwise, if it's shallow cut surface lines, not all the way through the material. Would be like surface cut lines in a slab of concrete; but I didn't think those were called expansion joints.

This is interesting. I saw the lines and wondered how they were made/formed too.

[Firemonkey]

These joints are control joints. Control joints are used to allow stresses placed on concrete (or refractory in this case) to form a crack in a predictable manner. You are thinking of movement joints, which are typically separate pieces of material with fiberboard, steel dowels, etc joining them.

[primeats]

Even refractory materials will expand and contract in relation to heating and cooling, and just as a sidewalk contracts when it cures, the lines partially indenting the surface are sacrificial, allowing movement of the material, almost microscopic, but it relieves the stress on the entire structure, resulting in no structural failure. Enough engineering talk from your butcher, time to get primitive on some slowly rotting (aging) carcasses!

[johnnyboy]

Exactly what I was wondering FM. Thanks, that answers my question.

Control joints control cracks, thus creating an area for expansion/contraction whereas expansion joints are built in to eliminate cracks/heaving/etc.

My question now is; is it the dual layer construction that stops the cracks that from going all the way through to the outside?

I'm concerned with freezing in my part of the country. Concerned moisture will form inside the cooling dome and may be enough to seep into/down the cracks, then freeze! I'm thinking multiply that by 6 control joints would be a lot of expansion.

[Fetzervalve]

I'm concerned with freezing in my part of the country.

Somewhere around hear there is a fella selling weather proof covers.....

I use your cover, but as you know, you cannot keep all the moisture off. I was fully exposed the first winter, no problems. I have been under a car port for last winter, but hope to be on a new patio for this year. I don't know who has had one in freezing conditions for the longest, but I have never heard about any tile loss.

[johnnyboy]

I'm concerned with freezing in my part of the country.

Somewhere around hear there is a fella selling weather proof covers.....

I use your cover, but as you know, you cannot keep all the moisture off. I was fully exposed the first winter, no problems. I have been under a car port for last winter, but hope to be on a new patio for this year. I don't know who has had one in freezing conditions for the longest, but I have never heard about any tile loss.

Fetz, you're a funny guy!!

I'm not too concerned with tile falling off. I'm more concerned about the inside of the dome. Especially if the inside control joints do crack. Not that they will, but that's what they're for, to control cracks should they happen.

During freezing conditions, as the dome cools after a cook, often times moisture will form inside the dome, then freeze before drying. I'm concerned with moisture penetrating the control cracks/joints then freezing, thus spreading the control joints even further apart.

[Firemonkey]

If it freezes at my house, I have much bigger problems than moisture in my KK! You do raise an interesting point, but I have to wonder if the moisture will really freeze inside of the KK? I know my KK absorbs a lot of solar energy, which keeps the inside quite warm. Im curious if a KK which sees sunlight will get cold enough to freeze water inside of it?

You also need to consider the new "stretchy" and soft grout and tile adhesive. This stuff is supposed to remain impermeable, so there should be no moisture seeping in from outside. If this is true, even if a crack were to go all the way through the wall, it will remain airtight due to this new grouting mix. I think reasonable caution would prevent most problems. Wouldn't venting the cooker after it cools keep it dry enough inside to prevent the quantities of water necessary to split the expansion joints?

[johnnyboy]

Wouldn't venting the cooker after it cools keep it dry enough inside to prevent the quantities of water necessary to split the expansion joints?

Yes, according to Harry on another forum; that's what needs to happen. But I don't always remember to do that. In fact Harry is the one who discovered it happens (when he lived in Ice Station Calgary). I've never gone back to look inside the dome to witness it myself.

I'm in a zone that gets down to -20F.

I didn't notice the expansion joints in the prototype; otherwise I'd of asked about it then.

I think Dennis needs to send me a 19.5 to test it for him!!!!

[primeats]

As you all know, especially in Iowa, we had a pretty cold winter, I cooked throughout the season a few times, never had any moisture problems at all. No tile problems at all, isn't the relative humidity only around 60% in the winter? However this is probably one test Dennis can't perform at the factory--pre-heated and pre-frozen too? Pretty sure that even if you do have some fissures inside, the dual layer material will prevent the walls from rupturing. Even if it were possible, Dennis has a pretty good track record for something called customer service, one phone call-or email- and it's gonna be taken care of, yesterday!

[johnnyboy]

As you all know' date=' especially in Iowa, we had a pretty cold winter, I cooked throughout the season a few times, never had any moisture problems at all. No tile problems at all, isn't the relative humidity only around 60% in the winter? However this is probably one test Dennis can't perform at the factory--pre-heated and pre-frozen too? Pretty sure that even if you do have some fissures inside, the dual layer material will prevent the walls from rupturing. Even if it were possible, Dennis has a pretty good track record for something called customer service, one phone call-or email- and it's gonna be taken care of, yesterday![/quote']

Good point Primeats!! I'm glad you jumped in. I didn't even think about asking you, and we're next to each other; honestly I thought the control joints were new design with the 19.5. I had never noticed them before to ask about them/their functionality.

Again, thanks much.

Proof! There it is!! ... Proof! There it is!!!......

[Fetzervalve]

Fetz' date=' you're a funny guy!! [/quote']You sound like my mom, "son, you're funny, but remember.... looks aren't everything!"

I thought the control joints were new design with the 19.5. I had never noticed them before.

It looks like there are more "joints" in the 19.5 than the 23' date=' but they have been in the 23 for [i']at least a year.

[primeats]

Cookshack, this is a pretty open forum, everyone here has been here for some time,way before me, if there are any issues that come up it's nice to have them ironed out in the open. I don't think this has been a negative conversation at all, just some concerns that have risen out of curiosity. A good forum is a well informed forum and most of us are pretty knowledgeable when it comes to "ceramic cooking" . We're all here to help, and if we didn't quell any concerns, you can bet Dennis would chime in

[johnnyboy]

primeats

Thanks for that. I was hearing a cooker problem not a cooking problem.

Cook_Shack,

Respectfully, you're not hearing a problem at all, there is no problem.

Only a meer discussion amongst engineering type minds. That's it. Cheers!

[trish]

I have a slightly different opinion having witnessed the decline of the Kompetitors' forum.

Primeats brings up an important point. The only matter that Dennis tries to 'manage' is negative comments regarding his Kompetitor. There is a lot of latitude allowed here, but the guide should be respect. Dennis has earned the respect by improving his product and giving very good customer service.

To expand the topic, I believe that a forum is not the place for customer service issues. That said, at the K forum, it became a last resort because the Kustomer service was so bad and the K people would ignore all reasonable attempts of contact. I say that with my own experience of their pathetic service.

When it comes to KomodoKamado, Dennis has a great record of customer service. It is unfair to Dennis to initiate Customer service issues on his forum when he clarly has been responsive. The recent incident with Big T's Komodo is a prime example. We all know that Dennis stepped up and resolved it very quickly, yet the picture of the damaged KK was placed on the Kompetitors' forum and presented as a design flaw. I understand T's panic after having spent a lot of $$$$ and to have a problem. Dennis did not censor the post and he did address the issue quickly. The respectful procedure would be to privately contact Dennis and give him the opportunity to resolve the issue. I believe he has earned the consideration and the respect. I also believe that one has to continually earn that respect but should be given the opportunity.

I don't mean to get on a soap box here, but I think there needs to be a distinction on what might be allowed and what is respectful.

[Firemonkey]

Cookshack' date=' this is a pretty open forum, everyone here has been here for some time,way before me, if there are any issues that come up it's nice to have them ironed out in the open. [/quote']

Well stated Primeats. I was the biggest skeptic of them all when I stumbled in here a couple of years ago. I aired every concern I had as a direct question, and all were answered. I even challenged a few of them (links below) and I wasnt chastised, censored, or banned. That fact alone made a very clear statement.

My earliest challenges:

viewtopic.php?t=261&highlight=

viewtopic.php?t=259&highlight=

Dennis announces the addition of control joints:

viewtopic.php?t=1339&highlight=expansion

As many of these questions have been made before, a search of the forum will not only answer most of them , but also allow insight into the development and communal engineering behind some of the feature changes. I encourage anyone with questions about the construction of a KK to do a search on the component to see where the idea came from.

Now I have to ask a question of my own to Dennis - How many control joints are there now? The 19.5 does indeed look like it has a couple more in the dome? Have you added some to the big brother as well??

[DennisLinkletter]

It pretty much eliminates all crazing.

Now I have to ask a question of my own to Dennis - How many control joints are there now? The 19.5 does indeed look like it has a couple more in the dome? Have you added some to the big brother as well??

Yes, we now have 5 joints where before we had 3 on both cookers. With three in a Mercedes symbol they were not evenly spaced. With 5 the distance between them is standard.

It pretty much eliminates all crazing.

[ThreeDJ16]

While all good info, best to be in a separate question thread and area. After all, that was an announcement showing off pics of his totally stoned new grill.

-=Jasen=-

[johnnyboy]

Jasen,

You missed part of the discussion when you divided the thread. In fact some of this discussion is still with the photos, and some is missing.

And, although now it looks like I initiated the discussion of the dome expansion joints; it wasn't me. I only added my concerns/questions.

I hope everyone understands and knows the history some of us have gone through with cracks (another manufacturer).

To see a design that entertains/controls "cracks"; One almost has to expect questions from those of us who've had un-controlled cracking.

I apologise if I've offended ANYONE with my questions/concerns/engineering mind. Wasn't intentional what so ever.

[primeats]

OK Johnny, in the words of Cheech and Chong..."Bailiff, ..."

[ThreeDJ16]

Jasen,

You missed part of the discussion when you divided the thread. In fact some of this discussion is still with the photos, and some is missing.

And, although now it looks like I initiated the discussion of the dome expansion joints; it wasn't me. I only added my concerns/questions.

I hope everyone understands and knows the history some of us have gone through with cracks (another manufacturer).

To see a design that entertains/controls "cracks"; One almost has to expect questions from those of us who've had un-controlled cracking.

I apologise if I've offended ANYONE with my questions/concerns/engineering mind. Wasn't intentional what so ever.

Wow, sorry I missed one...it happens. But I think I have it fixed now. Seriously, nobody needs to take this post splitting/moving so serious. I am simply trying to keep things more organized. This was a very good thread and it was a very good question. No wrong doing here, no forum slaps on the hand, just simply trying to put information where it would be better suited. FYI, no offense taken, no apology necessary...just forum business.

-=Jasen=-