Foiling Brisket During Cook Question

[LarryR]

The world of ceramics is new to me so please forgive if I seem to be asking what may be an obvious/basic question. I've done a lot of reading on this site and the BGE site trying to answer this question and I just want to confirm that there is no need to foil a brisket mid-cook on a ceramic? On a "steel" smoker this is a pretty common practice to insure a moist brisket; you foil at about 165 and put her back on the cooker until fork tender. I imagine due to the high moisture level when cooking in a ceramic this is unnecessary.

I'll be doing another brisket this weekend on her (have already done one brisket on her, high heat and it turned out awesome) and here's my plan:

* heat deflector on main grate

* Brisket (packer) fat side down on top grated extender

* Smoke at 225 top grate until fork tender (will start checking around 180)

* Remove when fork tender, separate the point from the flat and foil the flat and place in a cooler for 1 hr.

* Cube point and mix in chipotle bbq sauce and return to cooker for burnt ends (up temp to 275 to 300)

Any suggestions, would you change anything etc? We'll have guests so I really don't want to screw this one up, could do it on the smoker which I'm comfortable with and know how it will turn out, however, I'd rather do it on the new toy. We'll also be doing ABTS and a fatty

Thanks in advance for your input

[jdbower]

About the only time people foil here is after the cook is done to let it cool a little more slowly or to create a surface for veggies. Ceramics have a very low airflow so they tend to trap the moisture inside, steel cookers have a lot of airflow so they can dry out food a lot more easily if it's not properly prepared. As an added benefit you can get a nice bark on a ceramic since you don't need to foil (and you don't even need to be cooking gaegogi to get that bark )

[Syzygies]

+1

Of course, part of the fun here is you can run experiments both ways, and see for yourself.

I have a plastic cooler handy, with two large bath towels dedicated to this task, and rolls of heavy duty aluminum foil. Butt, ribs, and brisket go in this to stay warm after cooking. One virtue is that I can then show up at a collaborative dinner half an hour away, take another hour to get to the meat course, and all is well. As a bonus we drive home, leaving dishes in someone else's home. The usual scam where bbq cooks give the impression what they did is actual work. It's a labor of love, but no one complains about this arrangement!

I found that any foiling during cooking itself simply made the meat mushier. Try this first for spareribs, where the "3-2-1" approach (foil 2 hours in middle) still has traction. My impression (I'll put this as neutrally as I can) is that if one has bought unremarkable ribs on price, and has a remarkable sauce to apply, and guests who prefer their ribs falling off the bone, then "3-2-1" makes sense. If one wants the meat itself to show with a hint of tooth left (properly cooked pasta rather than mush), then one doesn't foil. Try the experiment both ways, no need to believe us. We want you to find out for yourself, perhaps you'll come up with a better way.

For brisket or butt, foiling turns the cook into a braise, might as well be doing it indoors! Not that there's anything wrong with braised beef, it's simply a different dish.

[LarryR]

Try the experiment both ways' date=' no need to believe us. We want you to find out for yourself, perhaps you'll come up with a better way.[/quote']

Thanks for the input/confirmation of what I had researched. Experimenting is fun but it can also be frustrating especially on a cook with guests, I don't want to serve them "mush" brisket. I look forward to not foiling briskets mid cook as it's a pain in the ass.

Everything else in my process looks good to you guys though? Thanks again for the input.

[ThreeDJ16]

Hey Larry, I am totally against the tradition reasons people foil the brisket. You should be able to produce a really nice brisket without putting any foil on your grill. My thoughts on foiling at the end are a little different too. If you have cooked your brisket to the proper temp, why would you want to cook it any longer and dry it out (which is what can happen placing it in foil for a rest as the juices leak out). I do place it in foil, but immediately place it in the freezer (if room) or the bottom drawer of the fridge with ice packs. This cools it rapidly so the juices stay in the meat instead of leaking out (which you will notice happens if you let it cool slow). Just for info, I am not saying you have to make the meat cold, your just getting the temps down low enough so the juice is harder to flow. It can still be plenty warm enough for eating. Anyway, here is a tread on it. http://www.komodokamado.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1667

Also, I leave my tip whole after separating and return to the grill. Also my temps are a bit warmer so it doesn't take quite as long to cook.

-=Jasen=-

[Syzygies]

If you have cooked your brisket to the proper temp' date=' why would you want to cook it any longer and dry it out (which is what can happen placing it in foil for a rest as the juices leak out).[/quote']

I'm a bit perplexed reading this, for I don't recall ever seeing significant juices leaking out, and classic technique e.g. French always calls for meat to rest (sometimes in a warm oven) precisely for changes to take place that keep the juices from leaking out while slicing.

On the other hand, your fridge technique is an intriguing idea. It would take various of us to fridge half a brisket, for direct comparison all other variables held constant, to get a feeling for this confirming yours.

As for practice, there are always opportunities to bring barbecue to settings where anything would be a steep improvement. I'll cook e.g. for grad student picnics for a nearby institute, where I simply wouldn't be able to eat if I hadn't brought barbecue, where the lighter fluid used to like the briquets is just a warning of the food horrors to come. I've seen two pork butts disappear in five minutes in such a setting.

[ThreeDJ16]

I'm a bit perplexed reading this, for I don't recall ever seeing significant juices leaking out,

Really? I have noticed that quite a bit. Also, not that it matters on a boston butt, but those have a ton of liquid after foiling. Pretty much any meat always seems to me, to leak out liquid while waiting for it to cool. I have been temping to to try a similar method (just use a cold plate) when taking a seared steak off the grill as even setting it in the plate for it's rest period seems to leave significant moisture before it is cut. But I figured the temps and thermal mass on a steak would cause it to cool below serving temps too fast.

Anyway, give it a try and see what you think. Just my opinion, but either I am really better at cooking brisket now or the trick works....hehe...as my last several briskets have been fantastic. Would be really curious if there was some scientific bases for the theory. Maybe we should submit it to Alton Brown..hehe.

-=Jasen=-

[jdbower]

I would imagine it also depends on how you remove the meat, I can see using a piercing implement (forks, turkey lifter, etc.) could create a "hemophiliac" roast much more so than lifting it with some silicone gloves. I think we've got the makings of a distributed KK experiment on our hands

[LarryR]

Just got a beautiful 12 lb packer on, rubbed her with a modified Mr. Brown recipe (I'm a big fan of pepper), doing her over red oak. It's about 7:00 a.m., sun is coming-up, I'm on the patio watching the cooker come to temp with a wonderful aroma of smoke filling the air as the slight breeze takes the wisps of smoke over to my neighbors yard to drive him crazy (says he loves the smell in the neighborhood when I cook, which has been a lot lately). What a way to start out your day

Thanks for the tips on foiling, I appreciate the tips, input and opinions. I have noticed juices in the foil/pan when I've foiled briskets and butts, I don't pierce I use the bbq gloves (if you don't have a pair get one, Amazon.com for $15. Nothing like being able to handle briskets, butts, chickens with your hands vs. tongs etc.), the rapid cooling method is interesting, don't think I'll try it on this cook but it's an experiment to try in the future.

[trish]

When you foil meat right off the BBQ aren't you effectively causing it to sweat? Wouldn't a certain amount of the liquid be condensation from the surface of the meat rather then coming through the interior of the meat?

That said, I will concede most discussions of science....

[ThreeDJ16]

I would imagine it also depends on how you remove the meat' date=' I can see using a piercing implement (forks, turkey lifter, etc.) could create a "hemophiliac" roast much more so than lifting it with some silicone gloves. I think we've got the makings of a distributed KK experiment on our hands [/quote']

That has not been the case with the liquid noticed in my cooks. I think most people know better. But then again, the stores still sell all sorts of contraptions for that purpose too.

-=Jasen=-

[ThreeDJ16]

When you foil meat right off the BBQ aren't you effectively causing it to sweat? Wouldn't a certain amount of the liquid be condensation from the surface of the meat rather then coming through the interior of the meat?

That said, I will concede most discussions of science....

Usually the surface of the meat is relatively dry when removed from the grill except for maybe some surface oil, but not enough to cause the pool of liquid. Also for it to condensate, that usually refers to gas changing back to liquid. If it is in foil, then condensate is not coming from air and only leaves one other location....the meat. But the temps of the meat are not that hot. So I would still think it is leaking out. Also the same thing happens just sitting it out on the counter, just less (which was why I thought of rapid cooling).

Would be very interesting now that the subject has come up, for others to test and post their results. Maybe a post with meat weight, cut, pit temp, final meat temp and an observation of liquid quantities.

-=Jasen=-

[LarryR]

Brisket ended-up being the brisket from hell!!! I knew she looked too good to be true. Stayed in the plateau for 7 hours! I finally just pulled her off and served her. Surprisingly enough you could cut her with a fork and she was quite moist. Don't know what happened but I guess sometimes it pays to be lucky vs. good.

As a side note I made a mistake when buying my sausage for my fatty, I thought I grabbed the fire roasted peppers and caramelized onion but when I got home it was "vino & formaggio." I was disappointed as I love the former sausage. Made my fatty as usual with Monterey Jack and guests raved about it. Damn, sooooooo good. I think it's a toss-up between the two sausages for me. Again, sometimes it's better to be lucky to be good I suppose.

[Farmer John]

Well it is time to cook Pastrami

Just mixed up the rub for Pastrami and have the briskets in two bags for the next three days. Then I can smoke it for fresh pastrami. Byt he way did you know if you want more lean pastrami you don't have to use a brisket? Any type of meat will work as long as you cure it with the tender quick, corriander, pepper, garlic, onion, and brown sugar for about three days. Now if I can remember I will take pictures!

John

[Sanny]

Might have been brisket from Hell, but it sure looks juicy. Overall a success, do you think? Would you make the same "mistakes" again next time?

[LarryR]

Wouldn't change a thing, I think I just got a stubborn brisket. It's interesting how two pieces can so different, I had a friend cook a 8 lb. flat today that was tender in 6.5 hours.

[Conodo12]

Hi Larry - That brisket does look good!

Perhaps someone else can chime in here but I thought that the "point" of the brisket usually came up to temp faster than the "flat". Going on, I thought the point was removed and typically chopped before serving. Many people seem to use the bark from the point in baked beans. With the point removed, the flat comes up to temp and is then sliced for serving. Is this correct?

Thx!

[LarryR]

I've never monitored the temp. in the point so I cannot speak to that. I either remove the point from the flat at 165ish and then put both back on the cooker or I remove the point from the flat when I pull her off the cooker (when flat is tender/done). I use the point for burnt ends (see pic. below) or Chili Colorado. I love burnt ends!

[ThreeDJ16]

Hi Larry - That brisket does look good!

Perhaps someone else can chime in here but I thought that the "point" of the brisket usually came up to temp faster than the "flat". Going on, I thought the point was removed and typically chopped before serving. Many people seem to use the bark from the point in baked beans. With the point removed, the flat comes up to temp and is then sliced for serving. Is this correct?

Thx!

Just the reverse has always been my experience. The flat gets up to temp first, you separate and place the tip back on the grill.

-=Jasen=-