Autolyse

[EGGARY]

I remember someone bring up the topic AUTOLYSE when talking about Pizza Dough. Does anybody know about this ? I found an article on it if anyone is interested.

Autolyse Pizza Dough Share on Tumblr We all don’t have a stand mixer to pulverize and simply beat the life out of our dough for 10-20 minutes to get the most gluten development possible. Interestingly enough humans have been making bread for centuries and stand mixers have just been around in the home for a few decades. You can bet neither your grandmother nor the French kneaded dough for 20 minutes by hand so there must be another way. As always simpler is better … autolyse. In fact unless you have a professional grade mixer for breads you will probably find this technique better for you and your mixer. Autolyse is a bread making technique which will almost certainly not be found anywhere on the topic of pizza dough but pizza dough is essentially bread dough and requires better gluten development than most breads so I find this odd. Gluten strands can start developing on their own with just time. Autolyse is a technique that is simply allowing the water to hydrate the flour with no other additives. When water and flour by themselves are mixed just enough to come together two things happen. Protease enzymes break down the proteins in the flour so they can reform as gluten and amylase enzymes convert the broken starch into sugars. If you added salt to your mixture the salt would greatly reduce the abilities of the protease enzyme. This process only takes between 20 minutes and an hour. After the flour and water dough has sit incorporate the rest of your ingredients in to the dough ball via kneading. To make it easier to work your other ingredients into the water and flour mixture you should only used two thirds of the flour and all of the water in the recipe. If you own a scale mix to 90-100% hydration. 100% hydration means for every 1g of water use 1g of flour. If you use this method you should not need to use a mechanical mixer and very little kneading will be required. Also by avoiding the oxidation caused by a mixer you will retain some subtle flavors that would otherwise be lost. SHARE THIS POST FOLLOW THE HOME PIZZERIA! HOW TO: MAKING YOUR FIRST PIZZA A complete tutorial on making a flavorful and simple pan pizza with typical ingredients and tools found in most kitchens. View the How-To Latest Popular Tags Sweet Bell Peppers and Smoked Gouda Pizza COMMENTS OFF Prosciutto, Blackberry, Arugula and Burrata Neapolitan Pizza COMMENTS OFF Pickled Sweet Peppers and Pepperoni Pizza COMMENTS OFF Leeks and Parmesan Béchamel Sauce Pizza COMMENTS OFF Italian Sausage and Green Bell Pepper Deep Dish Pizza 1 COMMENT Baking Steel Review Check out our page on why you should be baking your pizza on a baking steel. MOST VIEWED PAGES Chicago Deep Dish Pizza Dough Types of Cheese for Pizza Baking Steel Review Quick Tomato Sauce Tools for Making Pizza New York Style Pizza Dough Blue Cheese Stuffed Green Olive Pizza Forming New York Pizza Kneading and Proofing Dough Login Register Contact Feedback? OUR SITES HomemadeEats.com Copyright © 2014 Brian York. All rights reserved.

Read more at The Home Pizzeria: http://www.thehomepizzeria.com/?p=677

[dstr8]

Yes, when I make my pizza dough I use an autolyse (and poolish) process as well as a cold ferment.  The autolyse process actually has a similar effect of kneading the dough (stretches the gluten strands) which is why most recipes typically don't require lengthy kneading for pizza dough.  Having said that I get better results with 10-15 minute kneading

 

I basically follow Jeff Varasano's Neapolitan dough recipe; however I used an Italian starter culture and modified his recipe to suit...

[MacKenzie]

I use that baking steel in my oven and like it a lot. I also use it on top of the stove to make those English Muffins that are in my breakfast post:) Thanks EGGARY for posting that interesting info and the link:)

[EGGARY]

dstr8,

Are you using 00 Flour or Bread Flour ? Oil ? Sugar?

Would you please share Jeff Varasano's Pizza Dough Recipe.

Thank you.

[dstr8]

Coincidentally my BIL has some poolish on the counter proofing for Neapolitan pies tomorrow...

 

[dstr8]

EGGARY:  

 

Here you go (if you are like me then you will need to read it numerous times before fully digesting the copious and detailed amount of information within Jeff's web pages...): http://www.varasanos.com/pizzarecipe.htm

 

I have used predominately King Arthur Organic Unbleached Bread Flour; however last year I decided to try Caputo 00 and took my Neapolitan pies to the next level.  No sugar and per Jeff's recipe very low salt (salt impedes the autolyse process).  I also sourced an Italian starter culture from Ed Wood as it also adds another layer of flavor to pizza dough:  http://www.sourdo.com

 

I've had Neapolitan pies in Italy and many places over the western USA.  But recently a new Neapolitan pizza restaurant opened in Seaside (Monterey Bay) California and absolutely blew the doors off any Neapolitan pies I've had...including in Italy (we happened to be in Florence Italy last fall when Guy Fieri and crew were at Gusta Pizza...funny and coincidental timing)!  If you find yourself in the Monterey Bay area I highly recommend a visit to Gusto Pasta & Pizza...its the real deal:   http://www.gustopizzeriapasta.com

 

I've never been to Atlanta but when/if I am I will be sure to check out Jeff's pies as I'm sure being the extreme OCD type to all things Neapolitan pizza it's worthy 

 

We are in transition; but once we get settled again I want to buy a Valoriani wood oven (outside) and put my Neapolitan pizza bakes to bed:  http://www.mugnaini.com

 

Dennis:  Gusto Pasta & Pizza in Seaside CA, referenced above, has a stunningly beautiful large built in multi-colored red tile Valoriani wood oven in their restaurant.  Each time we go there I think to myself:  "Why doesn't Dennis offer bright red tiles for his KK's"?!   

[EGGARY]

dstr8,

 

What do you think of this recipe ?  From what I read, all the ingredients are mixed together along with the yeast.  Is that right ?  Sorry for the small print.  

 

 

Using Antico Molino Caputo Tipo 00 Pizza Flour

Use Caputo Tipo 00 flour the same way you would use either general purpose, or bread flour, though you will see a number of differences in how it behaves compared with American flours.

It hydrates very well. You will find yourself adding more water to your dough than you are accustomed. You want to make a moist, almost sticky dough. You can use flour to keep it from sticking to your hands or your work surface.

It is very silky and soft. You can make great pizza dough without adding olive oil. Experiment with added olive oil, but definitely try it without. If you are used to throwing your pizzas, you will see that the dough needs gentle handling.

It is very extensible. The flour is selected and milled to be easily shaped into a pizza base. You should not over work the dough. It will spring in the oven. The soft, well-hydrated, extensible dough will puff around the outside rim of the pizza where you do not have sauce.

And the taste is great.

Basic Vera Pizza Napoletana Dough Recipe

Ingredients By Volume

4 cups Molino Caputo Tipo 00 flour 1 1â„2 cups, plus 2-3 Tbs water 2 tsp salt 1/2 tsp dry active yeast

• • • • By Weight •

500gr Molino Caputo Tipo 00 flour 325 gr water (65% hydration) 10 gr salt 3 gr dry active yeast

• • •

We highly recommend cooking by weight. It is fast, and easy to get the exact hydration (water to flour ratio) and dough ball size you want. Personally, I do not use recipes or a mixing cup when I cook dinner for the family, but pizza and bread dough are different. Being exact counts, and nothing works better than a digital scale.

Mix the dough in a stand mixer, by hand or in a bread machine. If you are using a stand mixer, mix it slowly for two minutes, until you have made a ball. Let the dough rest for 10 minutes, to allow the flour to absorb the water. Then, mix at a middle speed (3 or 4 on a KitchenAid) for 5 minutes, and slow for 2 minutes.

Shape the dough into a ball, place it in a slightly oiled bowl, cover it with a towel, and let it rise for 1 1/2 - 2 hours, or until double. Punch it down and push out the air bubbles. Form the dough into a large ball, then cut it into 4-5 equal pieces.

To make your pizza balls, shape each piece of dough into a ball. Gently shape your dough into a ball, then stretch the top of the ball down and around the rest of the ball, until the outer layer wraps around the other side. Pinch the two ends together to make a smooth ball with a tight outer "skin." Set your ball seam-side down where it can rest. Dust your pizza balls with flour, and store them under a damp towel, in a proofing tray, or under plastic wrap. This will prevent the outside of the ball from drying out and creating a crust, and becoming difficult to work with. The top of the pizza ball should be soft and silky.

Your pizza balls will need to rest for about an hour to become soft and elastic, so that they can be easily stretched into a thin crust pizza.

If you don’t need your pizza balls for a few hours, you should refrigerate them, and bring them back out of the refrigerator an hour or so before you want to use them.

Try making your pizza balls the day before you need them. Overnight refrigeration helps the dough develop more flavor, and a fully developed dough browns better in your oven.

Using Caputo Tipo 00 Pizzeria Flour. Copyright 2011. v1.1

[EGGARY]

I read about the salt as well.  If I were to use the Recipe I showed you, then when would I put in the salt ?

[dstr8]

EGGARY,

Looks like a classic Neapolitan dough recipe.  Always, per the recipe, use a scale to weigh your ingredients and NEVER by volume.  And I, like the recipe's author, never add any type of oil to my Neapolitan style dough.  For the vessel(s) you will use to proof the dough literally place just one drop of olive/light oil in the container bowl and wipe/smear it with a towel.  You just want the thinnest of oil films on the container to aid in dough removal after its proofed.

 

You will find a cold ferment, usually a day or two (or longer sometimes) will bring more depth of flavor to the dough.  Otherwise the short proof above will yield good results if milder in flavor.

 

And unless you have played with soft wet pizza dough I'd recommend NOT making these pies for company until you have a dozen or more under your belt.  The first few times you handle the dough will, more than likely, yield frustration.  But experience is key here and you will find 55-65% hydration eventually will be a snap to deal with.

 

There are just so many little things that make a big difference with Neapolitan style dough & pizzas.  The margin for error is very narrow especially compared to Chicago and New York style doughs/pies.  

 

Once the dough is stretched on your bench be sure to work quickly.  Leaving ingredients atop the dough will exacerbate getting the assembled pie moved to a peel and then slid off without disaster to your hot stone.   My advice:  Do not build the pizza atop the peel but rather build the pie on a marble, metal or even lightly dusted large cutting board surface then pull the pie onto the peel...then quickly out to the KK.  Its just going to take some practice.  Keep bench flour on your peel to a minimum.  If you work quickly and pay heed to minimal ingredients ala Neapolitan style pies you won't have issues getting the pie to slip right off the peel.  

 

Lots of good tips in the Pizza section/forum here too.

 

Also once you have the dough and assembly down you, as I have done, can play with baking these at various temps between 600*F and 800*F.  You will be SHOCKED at the textural difference each temperature band imparts to the dough.  Although with our KK's/any hinged lid style cooker, you won't be able to get the same results you can with a real pizza oven I can come very close:  Don't raise the lid more than just enough to slide the pizza in...and rely on a timer to eliminate unnecessary lifting of the dome lid to check on your pie.  You'll figure all this out with experience.

 

Edit:  Salt is completely unnecessary for the dough...except for taste.  I use 7-10g of kosher salt in my dough batch (~1000 grams of finished dough).  This amount will bring up the dough flavor just enough to not be too bland but not enough salt to interrupt the autolyse process and/or toughen the dough.  But the salt only serves your tongue...so if in doubt just add more salt to the tomato sauce or whatever sauce you use.  

[EGGARY]

There is just too much info out there.  I read mix the water, flour, and yeast and do a brief knead and then add the salt in the final knead.  I would be using a Standing Mixer.  I wonder if the salt would incorporate into the dough on the second kneading.  If I could get any insights I would appreciate it.  I grant you this will not be the last time I make dough but trying to get it down to a science.  Thanks.

[ckreef]

Very interesting thread. Will need to read this again when the fog of a few adult beverages is not hanging low on my brain - LOL

[dstr8]

Also if you opt to do a cold ferment you will only need a total of 1 gram of dry (non-instant!) yeast!   I suggest, especially if you have a day or two for a cold ferment you use Jeff's recipe.  Its just so reliable!   Plus with a cold ferment you could actually leave it in the fridge for several days and up to 6 or so without too much penalty.  Having said that I generally prefer the yeast activity and dough bloom in the bake-off with a 1-3 day cold ferment.  Longer than this and I am not able to get the same texture to the finished/cooked dough with the bubble lattice I prefer.  Mind you even at 5-6 days cold ferment the dough is still wonderful.  But as I said you will find Neapolitan dough to be less than tolerant of big changes/mistakes.

 

I can only relay I was super intimidated by the whole Neapolitan dough thing.  But after you make a couple dozen pies and pay special attention to your hydration level (take notes and be consistent) you will relax and be out of newbie-ville.  Its just going to take some practice...that's all.

 

Also:  When the dough is still in the individual containers but proofed and ready to pop out onto your bench:  Dust the top of the dough ball with bench flour before you try to remove it from the container.  Then, using a small silicone spatula, work your way around the perimeter of the dough ball working a little of the bench flour atop the dough ball between the container and the dough ball.  

 

Then turn the container upside down and coax, again using the silicone spatula, the dough ball onto an 1/4" or so deep layer of bench flour atop your bench (marble, metal or wood...but NOT grouted tile surface).  Then dust your palms/hands with bench flour and gently start stretching the wet dough.  You will learn to add minimal bench flour to the dough...just enough to prevent it from being terribly sticky.  

 

If the dough springs back unduly as you try to stretch it then just let the dough sit on the bench for a couple minutes of resting.  And if you add too much bench flour you will create a dough that is too stiff...resulting in more of a cracker style crust rather than a moist airy dough that has a chewy but tender skin with large bubbles within.

 

Practice, practice, practice.  And ask more questions!

[tinyfish]

Have you guys tried rice flour on your pizza peels. Rice flour is like little ball bearings and works really well the pizza just slides off.

[Hankvon]

Thanks for all the info! I can't wait to get my KK to try these tips Have a challenge getting the best flour around here, but looking forward to start experimenting with what's available.

[tinyfish]

Thanks for all the info! I can't wait to get my KK to try these tips Have a challenge getting the best flour around here, but looking forward to start experimenting with what's available.

Just look for a high percentage protein flour 12%-13% for ultra thin neapolitan pizza.

[dstr8]

Hankvon: I don't know where you are located but Caputo 00 and other brands of flour can be sourced from Amazon.com and eBay. Altough its getting a little easier to find these flours I rely upon the aforementioned to source mine.

Also, although I haven't tried it, King Arthur has a finer 00 grade pizza flour...

FWIW: The typical flour most Italian's use for Neapolitan pies, including Caputo, has a lower protein content than KA's bread flour...

[EGGARY]

The Pizza Dough came out ok.  Yes it is sticky but wad able to finally make 4 Pizza Dough Balls.  I misread the instructions as I let the dough "proof" for an hour before putting them into the refrigerator for tonight's dinner.  I put  2 of the Dough Balls into the freezer.  The sauce was good.  I used too much on each Pizza.  As to the cheese, I used a Low Moisture Mozzarella and a regular Mozzarella together.  I didn't fully read dstr8 full post about NOT assembling the pizza on the Peel and I didn't have any corn meal so I did use flour.  Pizzas tasted good but it is a work in progress.  Thank you for all the advice.

[dstr8]

^ what temp did you bake the pies?   

 

Good idea tinyfish about the rice flour...presumably it has a higher smoking point and/or wouldn't turn bitter like wheat flour does on the bottom of Neapolitan pies (I use rice flour for my fish and chips batter...crazy good).  Although I generally don't have sticky pizza peel issues anymore I have been tempted to buy one of these:  http://brickovenbaker.com/brick-oven-and-baking-tools/peels/13-inch-rectangular-perforated-pizza-peel-47-inch-handle?gclid=CKexl-DClcUCFYZffgodiZwAVA

[EGGARY]

Cooked Pizzas at 500.

[dstr8]

Just for you EGGARY:  A quick vid of my BIL stretching his Neapolitan dough tonight...

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mfsbpg0fg50c615/Neapolitan%20dough%20stretch.mov?dl=0

 

Dan

 

 

Edit:  BTW the 3-containers of dough, one container per pie's worth and after about 48-hours cold ferment, were pulled from the refrigerator 1-hour from when he worked the dough in the video.  The dough was still very cool to the touch yet stretched beautifully without tearing.  My BIL has a Blackstone pizza oven and put any and all sneering by me...to bed after eating the first pie .  The Blackstone, although lacking the wood flavor from a lump fired vessel, is quicker (ready to go in about 15-20 minutes!) and easier for pizza bakes at any temperature!