Porkchop

man, majestic, you called it dude! you gotta do a rotis boneless rib roast! prime, would you please explain what a top butt is? sounds like a leaner, thin sliced affair?

maj - ah yes... sweet memories! prime - when i do low & slows, butts, ribs, or a chuck roll, i like to put on cold, as it helps with smoke ring formation. from what i understand, tho, steaks should be brought up to room temp first, for tenderness. in fact, i remember seeing a technique in the "green room" advocating a warm water bath to bring that up sooner. many were very impressed by this. bobkat - cant remember what your previous 2 initial cooks were. have you tried ABT's yet? these would be a fairly easy, but worthy, item to grace your new KK.

dont let maj get you down bobkat! try again, sir! if i remember, my chuckroll took 20 hrs at 250, and it spiked for a little while to 300. good results, but, even then, it coulda gone a little longer. the very center of the roll had some fat and connective tissue that hadnt broken down yet. 250 for 24 hours would do the trick, but check it at like 20. yes, maj, that does look ver' tasty, mon ami!

i would imagine that the brisket's irregular size would make it very hard on any rotis motor. weight isnt very evenly distributed. now, a chuck roll...

no, you dont cook jerky! you dry jerky. 210 is a cooking temp. first, soak your 16# chuck roll in a solution of tender quick and spices in the fridge for a couple days. set your guru for a temp of 100-125 degrees, and set your cooker for indirect, with your choice of hardwood for smoke... put chuckroll in and let go for 1 month. makes one serving for a very big mouth. guess that's why YOU think of jerky when you think of chuck roll

save that big piece with the shiny lacquer of rub up front!! oh, man, i cant believe a piece like that made it to the plate. that woulda gone into my face while i was pulling!

dude, defo let me know! we will have to put something together! went in there, looking for, of all things, a TRI TIP no luck, tho... didn't go in looking so much for prime, as i was looking for a weird cut that the average store case wouldn't have. he did have some hanger steaks i was checking out too, but, y'know he's gotta have killer overhead with his location and digs. some of his stuff was actually reasonable, but not what i was looking for. was considering some decent sirloins, thinking, what the heck, why make another trip; just get them here. then he ran that bs past me, and i was done with him. he opened his mouth and lost a sale! i know the margin on meat right now is real thin, but dont insult my intelligence, man!

prime, right on about dennis' ribeyes! almost too beautiful! i love seeing marbleing like that... i'm so used to seeing that big knot of fat in ribeyes, and choice and/or select (ugh) taste greasy to me. i'm a big fan of the leaner steak/grilling cuts; love the top sirloin and the top round, thick cut for london broil. thought of you the other day; went to a local shop that sells prime. only place i know of in town, actually. i left very annoyed; he treated me like a rube. prime looked more like choice. was selling select ribeyes for 10.69/lb.!! i asked him twice about them, and he said that, while they were graded select, they seemed more like choice to him. bs! so i left and went to my small town grocery. much smaller selection, but really fresh and decent prices. was thinking of splurging on some prime steaks, but just got ticked at this guy for bald-faced lying to me about stuff. i said, wish prime had a shop around here! i could trust that guy! far as tender v juicy, or tough v dry... well, yeah, there's fat and collagen to consider in the equation. you went one way, i went the other. honestly, i dont even think of fat as having much benefit for butts or brisket or chuck roll, as far as the above qualities are concerned. fat is there for FLAVOR! i dont really think it "bastes" the meat much tho. just my opinion. now, its different for steaks, a little at least. the more marbled tend to be the more tender cuts, altho backstrap is the wildcard there. so, is fat in steaks causal or not? does the marbleing actually MAKE the meat tender, or does it just tend to be present in the less used, thus more tender, muscle groups?

makeup is to a woman what bbq sauce is to bbq. a fine representative of the latter doesn't need the former... the sugar and spice is already there!

well, not an expert on the chuck roll specifically, but, i would probably disagree with mike. the old rule of thumb with brisket (which is similar in makeup to the chuck roll) is, if its dry, or tough, you didn't cook it long enough. like i said, rule of thumb. i've only done 1 chuck roll, so hard to say. here's why i hold the opinion... (edit: this is not to say that i disagree with the results mike got on his original cook; whatever works. what i disagree with was the remark on "too low too long"... pray continue...) you say it "got stuck" at an internal of 174. there's a reason for this. the magic that happens during a low & slow has to do with the breakdown of collagen (connective tissue) during the cooking process. between 165-175, in that general range, connective tissue breaks down into gelatin and water. the effect is twofold. the connective tissue is what makes tough meat (brisket and chuck) tough. so, the breakdown makes the meat both tender and juicy. this process is GRADUAL. during this process, the collagen acts as sort of a heat sink, causing the meat's internal temp to "plateau" at that magic range. you can't rush thru this, as the collagen doesn't instantly "transform" into water and gelatin when the internal hits those temps, so it does no good to try and rush things at the end. the internal temp will be "the right temp", but the process that these temperatures accomplish with time will not occur, resulting in... dry and tough meat. so. you need to strike a balance with the ol' chuck roll. IN MY OPINION, you started at too low a temp. start at 250-275. that way, you hit the low end of that temp range sooner, and the meat has longer at that plateau without taking as long as you describe. but, bottom line here; it takes as long as it takes. it would have been better to leave the roll on at the temps you're describing and ordered pizza. beef sammiches for breakfast the next day. if i'm correct, you still have plenty of collagen left in your beef. if you haven't scrapped the whole deal, i'd try to revive by putting some of it in a dutch oven or tinfoil pan with just a splash or two of coke, cover and let roll at 225 in the oven. just to see what happens.

has anybody read this? i'm about halfway thru it, and was into it from page 1. there's a point at which he explains that he wont ever be on food network, because he doesn't have a catchphrase like "Bam" or "kick it up a notch", and that he doesn't anticipate a backrub from Bobby Flay anytime soon... he had me at "Bobby Flay"...

liked the popup on your website whiz! informative little tidbit on searing steaks in the ol' ceramic cooker. thanks for taking the time to do that little "grill temp" test. also, VERY nice aside concerning the true reason for searing a steak and the little blurb on the Maillard reaction. altho, there are plenty of folks who (no fault of their own) still think that searing "seals in the juices". if we could get Food Network chefs to stop saying that nonsense, maybe they would already know better.

and now the guilt sets in... wish i had stuck with the ol site after all. just didn't seem like i had the time anymore... have you come up with a good rub yet bobkat?

yeah, its s.o.p. to place cooked brisket under a chiller if you arent serving that day, but more out of a food safety concern than quality concern. makes sense, tho. like "shocking" your asparagus in an ice bath to keep the color. good thinking. also must comment concerning your choice to go with a full, packer trim brisket as is. good choice. everything in your approach is well advised for those thinking of a "first brisket" cook, in my opinion. for those that have the gadgetry, the business of raising temp bit by bit like that is cool, otherwise (done this many times) you can try starting at a higher temp, like 275, then drop it after a 1/2 hour to 225-250. otherwise, straight 225-250 will get the job done. and then there's my personal bent; dont trim any cap, and cook fat side DOWN... when i've done brisket on my ceramics, i've notice the lean portion of the brisket in contact with the grate can sometimes dry out and harden, which is not cool... keeping it fat side down solves that problem. the idea of the brisket cap "basting" the brisket as it renders is, imho, hogwash. the brisket gets its juice (when properly done) from the collagen breaking down during the cook, NOT from rendered fat. anyhow, back to the backpatting at hand, beautiful brisket deej. i am a bigger fan of the chopped in general than the sliced. your chopped looks phenomenal, and the sliced looks very nice too. 1 combo plate, please!

of all the restaurants ive worked, all the burns ive got as a baker, chicken fryer, or bbq guy, the absolute WORST was a superheated steam burn just like that. burned my hand horribly! i had my hand in and out of a bowl of icewater all night by my bed. rough! i feel your pain, sanny. but, you only pull that boner once! and, btw, just for the sake of others reading this, one of the reasons i LOVE the spring loaded KK dome! what a great safety feature. rather than lower the hood with your hand in case of backdraft, you just let go and jump back! not trying to add insult to injury sanny, cause ive truly been there. my pinky finger blistered and the blister popped INSTANTLY, ring finger blistered (like, dime sized blisters on the back of my finger!) real bad, and my middle finger was serious 2nd degree burns. and that was just from the steam! sorry about the squash too!

you HAVE to bake some spuds on the KK. indirect at 450. brush skins with olive oil, season with kosher salt and cracked black pepper. crazy good. make more than you think you'll eat. if you dont eat an extra at dinner, make home fries, or thick cut steak fries. deep fry the steak fries, pan fry the home fries... man i miss potatoes... grilled aparagus also very very good! i've even baked a casserole pan of brussels sprouts in the kk. baby sprouts are whole, bigger ones are cut in half. lightly butter dish, put in the sprouts, drizzle more butter, then sprinkle with kosher salt and cracked black pepper. roast til tender. they get this little crispy-like texture on the outside, and tender (not mush!) in the middle... a big steak with a big tater and load of brussels sprouts?? thats my "death row" last meal, baby!

paul... chickens sure are good off the kk, huh? its funny; as much a fan i am of "real meat", like pork and beef, i LOVE chicken off the kk! so juicy and nice crisp skin. i'm a big fan!

deej, i know from brisket, and that's a beeeyooootiful brisket, bro! for those asking, you're supposed to chop the tip because of the fat content mainly. also, the grain of the tip runs opposite to the flat, so if you are cutting across the grain on the flat (the proper thing!) and you keep slicing thru to the tip (which perplexes me when i see it done), you are now cutting down two different layers. not good. very nice deej!

hey sanny... heeeeeee propane EVIL.

from the looks of that reflection, he has good cause to be angry!

i'd considered the primo oval b4 coming here. not really meaning to go off on them in particular. more a jibe at the overall "bolt-y" appearance of the steel-jacketed version. it looks clunky and just seems so anti-intuitive. compare their effort to dennis' hand-hammered copper jacketed version. based solely on that comparison, the steel primo looks bad. not that i'd really consider ANY metal coated ceramic cooker. but if i were, the abovementioned entry would not be at the top of the list. no slight on the cooking capabilities of the primo; i have no firsthand knowledge, and know a few who love them. sorry i stepped on your toes, curmudgeon

wow, i guess now you CAN shine a turd...

i am not a physics guy, but here's what I have to say: 1) tornado on the KK; this is a necessary experiment. someone needs to be brave enough to do this, hook it up to a blower, and smelt some ore! 2) ceramic cooker shaped like a big ol box??? how bout those big outdoor clay ovens the quebec'ers build? those are for bread, sure, but there are plenty of firebrick-type do-it-yerself bbq's in backyards for sure... maybe thats the next step for me; build a brick pit in my backyard...

yeah, i dont fiddle with all that mess. my drip pan is full of smoky, yummy pork fat at the end of a long cook! all the other sugary stuff that would crust and burn would probably ruin the drippings.