Thermoworks Billows Mount for KK for Sale Online

[Prime_Mover]

I have been trying everything to get my Thermoworks Billows to mount elegantly to my Kamado Kamado cooker.

I found a vendor online called Humphreys BBQ and took a $34 chance on a solution.  It worked perfectly.

https://www.humphreysbbq.com/products/the-rigid-billows-mount?variant=31141958680687

Simply attach this machined aluminum adapter to your billows, and plug your billows into the KK BBQ Guru port.

Fits like a glove.

 

[Prime_Mover]

Here it is installed on my Billows ...

... And plugged into my KK

[tony b]

Cool beans.

[jonj]

You have a really nice outdoor kitchen / dinning area.

 

[ckreef]

That's a really nice adapter and yes, an awesome looking odk. 

 

 

[jonj]

I can already tell this Billows adapter is going to cause me to buy yet a third Thermoworks BBQ alarm system. 

When the Billows didn’t fit the KKs, I could just ignore the whole thing, but now...   🤬

Maybe I’ll just buy the adapter.

[ckreef]

On 8/22/2020 at 6:42 PM, jonj said:

I can already tell this Billows adapter is going to cause me to buy yet a third Thermoworks BBQ alarm system. 

When the Billows didn’t fit the KKs, I could just ignore the whole thing, but now...   🤬

Maybe I’ll just buy the adapter.

 

Unfortunately I was thinking the same thing. Definitely don't need another device but that rarely stops me. 

 

[CeramicTool]

Can anyone comment on how well this works with the KK? I own a Signals/Billows currently, and was wondering if it is compatible such an efficient grill. I know it oftentimes overshoots the temp on my Big Joe by upwards of 15 degrees f, but generally holds a set point of 225f between 210-230f. Some of this may be my fault, it usually overshoots at the beginning and when I open the lid. I could also perhaps hand layer my charcoal for better results rather than dumping the bag (sans fines) into the Kamado.

Just wondering if the Dennis recommended temp controllers do a better job because they are designed for super efficient cookers, or if this is irrelevant because the programming takes into account the rate at which things happen?

 

On a side note, for the Signals/Billows, I find it mighty efficient. It turns the entire Kamado into a closed system where air cannot enter in the bottom, traverse the charcoal, and exit the top.

 

I figure this machine gets me part way to a KK by drastically increasing oxygen efficiency, charcoal efficiency, and reducing moisture loss. The wildcard is still massive heat loss through the walls, and uneven heating because of this.

[tony b]

Most KK owners will say that you don't NEED a temperature controller device (there are several out there on the market that work on a KK - I personally own a BBQ Guru) to make great food on a KK. Once you learn the top vent settings for a given temperature, it's pretty rock steady. Windy conditions can sometimes mess with things, but otherwise, it's a "set it and forget it" situation. The controllers just add some peace of mind, especially if you're doing an overnight cook. 

18 hours ago, CeramicTool said:

On a side note, for the Signals/Billows, I find it mighty efficient. It turns the entire Kamado into a closed system where air cannot enter in the bottom, traverse the charcoal, and exit the top.

This statement baffled me. It can't be a closed system. The combustion air has to exit somewhere, or you're going to pressurize the system to the point where it's either going to leak out somewhere uncontrollably, or it's going to put out the fire because the external fan can't overcome the internal pressure and the airflow stops. 

One of the nice features of many of the controllers is that they can recognize when the lid is opened and don't try and overcompensate for the sudden drop in temperature by running the fan too long, causing an overshoot. The downside of these controllers is that once you overshoot the temperature, they cease to work - they just shutdown. IF you're lucky and the temperature does drop back down into the control band, you're good, but that usually means the fire is going out and you hope that the controller catches it before it goes completely out.

[Syzygies]

Curious how the third party solution compares with the adaptor sold by Thermoworks?

Billows Mounting Kits

I can see an opportunity here: Sell an adaptor that includes a BBQ Guru style airflow restrictor:

As far as I can tell, there is no way to restrict the flow on the Billows itself. Review sites don't discuss this.

Because the Billows is higher CFM than any BBQ Guru fan, this is less of an issue: One can further restrict the airflow at the damper, and the Billows will manage to push air through when it wants, with less convection when it doesn't want.

Nevertheless, many of us actually use our BBQ Guru fan airflow restrictors, to control passive convection. Only someone who routinely depended on this using BBQ Guru products, and has never missed it after switching to a Billows, can convince me the Billows doesn't need one. "Huh? I had no idea my machine had this switch on it, and I never missed it" is a self-evident statement that's not exactly a testimonial.

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Syzygies

[jonj]

1 hour ago, Syzygies said:

Sell an adaptor that includes a BBQ Guru style airflow restrictor:

Well, I finally broke down and bought yet another ThermaWorks BBQ alarm system (Signals) and Billows since they 1. fixed the open lid software, 2. made the adapter for Billows which fits the guru port on a KK, 3. added an airflow restrictor for Billows, and 4. had a super 24 hour sale price, which broke through my reluctance.

After getting the units, I can report the ThermoWorks Billows snout affixes very securely to the Billows and is also a very snug fit into the KK's guru port (both of which were concerns of mine prior to ordering). The new airflow restrictor (yellow device), which I found as an afterthought in the ordering process, replaces the silicone fan cover (also yellow) which comes standard with the Billows.

Here's what it looks like with all the accessories:

It is a lot bigger than I expected, which is why I included the 6" rule in the picture. I haven't yet tried it (or Signals) out yet as the weather here hasn't been cooperative recently. 

[CeramicTool]

11 hours ago, tony b said:

Most KK owners will say that you don't NEED a temperature controller device (there are several out there on the market that work on a KK - I personally own a BBQ Guru) to make great food on a KK. Once you learn the top vent settings for a given temperature, it's pretty rock steady. Windy conditions can sometimes mess with things, but otherwise, it's a "set it and forget it" situation. The controllers just add some peace of mind, especially if you're doing an overnight cook. 

This statement baffled me. It can't be a closed system. The combustion air has to exit somewhere, or you're going to pressurize the system to the point where it's either going to leak out somewhere uncontrollably, or it's going to put out the fire because the external fan can't overcome the internal pressure and the airflow stops. 

One of the nice features of many of the controllers is that they can recognize when the lid is opened and don't try and overcompensate for the sudden drop in temperature by running the fan too long, causing an overshoot. The downside of these controllers is that once you overshoot the temperature, they cease to work - they just shutdown. IF you're lucky and the temperature does drop back down into the control band, you're good, but that usually means the fire is going out and you hope that the controller catches it before it goes completely out.

 

I'm definitely over my head on this one, so feel free to correct where Im wrong, or add more insight where Im close. But here is a better explanation:

Is the Billows more efficient? I firmly believe it is super-efficient vs not using it. I got this idea from @DennisLinkletter in a roundabout way. He said something about the KK having a set and forget damper temperature control system because all the air is drawn through the charcoal, and not allowed to circumvent the firebox like in other designs. I interpreted/visualized this, rightly or wrongly, as a stream of air entering my Big Joe, going around the outside of the firebox, sucking up heat along the way and exiting the top damper warmer than when it entered, but while using less of the available oxygen than if it went through the firebox. This is obviously a simplification, and its more complicated, but the point stands.

From this perspective, I visualize the the billows as alternatively creating a "closed air system" and "open air system", one at a time, (Tony B, you are right, this is the inappropriate usage of the words) with relatively little vaccuum action until the temperature drops below where it needs to be. Then Billows forces air into the Kamado, which in turn forces air out the minuscule damper hole in the top. The oxygen level will of course never rise above 20.9%, but will drop as it is used to create heat. I see in my minds eye an imaginary oxygen meter in my Kamado. As the oxygen level drops, so does the heat production. The oxygen in a Billows controlled Big Joe set at 225f will stabilize at a set point between 0 and 20.9%, but I have no idea what that number might be, and it would vary based many things.

With the Billows, I see the Big Joe as a totally different cooker. The oxygen may still not have to pass through the firebox, but it must circulate endlessly until it drops too low to maintain the desired temperature, which is close to the same thing. This is made possible by the smaller top damper hole and forced air action of the billows.

I humbly suggest that when using the Billows, more oxygen is converted to heat than when not using it, which equals less airflow. And this in turn increases its efficiency by allowing less heat out. I also think that somehow not letting as much moisture escape makes it more efficient as well. I understand it takes 5x the energy to evaporate moisture than to bring it from frozen to boiling. I also understand that as relative humidity rises, evaporation happens slower and slower until it stops completely. I'm not sure what what 100% humidity is at 225f, and Im not sure if a kamado gets that high, and I'm not sure what happens to moisture in meat when the relative humidity is 100%.

I do however feel like I'm on the right track that more moisture retained = lower future evaporation rate = more moist meat = less energy used to evaporate water

Everything about the Billows seems to be pointing in the right direction of energy efficiency equaling less moisture loss equaling better meat. My cooks are bearing this out as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Forrest]

[mention]CeramicTool [/mention] ,If I understand your hypothesis in regards to temp control devices, you are assuming that oxygen swirls around in the Kamado when your cooking temp is higher then the set target temp on the controller because the controller fan shuts off cutting off the airflow through the Kamado. I believe you are stating that during these periods of stagnation of airflow when the fan is off more swirling stagnant oxygen within the Kamado is converting more charcoal to heat without airflow blowing unused oxygen out of the Kamado. Therefore producing an environment where you can maintain your desired cooking temp with less airflow where the oxygen exits the Kamado in a slower fashion, resulting in more moisture retained in the cooker, and causing less evaporation of moisture from your meat because of higher humidity levels.

Here are some of my thoughts: I’m not sure if oxygen is retained in the Kamado for longer periods of times when the fan is shut off causing the fire to be stoked with less amounts of oxygen and airflow, at least not to a degree where it makes a practical difference in your overall food quality/end result. I’m thinking the fire would consume what oxygen is available when its forced into the Kamado by the controller fan and maybe some unused oxygen still just exits the chimney that passes around the fire box rather then through the charcoal, after this the fire then just slowly dies back down when the fan kicks off because of the lack of oxygen until your temp drops low enough for the fan to kick back on again, and this cycle just continuously happens over and over again. This causes periods of low-no airflow and higher burst of airflow, I’m not convinced that less oxygen is being wasted when the fan shuts off, but I could be wrong. If anything I think the steady slow airflow without the use of a controller would produce more moisture retention then the bursts of higher flow that a temp controller provides, but I bet the results are negligible, at least that’s been my experience, this is probably especially true in a KK where the oxygen is being forced through the charcoal anyways.

Also, I don’t know if you ever can reach high enough humidity in a Kamado where your meat won’t evaporate its water, maybe you can slow this process allowing you to cook your meat to higher temps without the moisture leaving, but if you are cooking well past well done traditional BBQ cuts like brisket and pork butt, ultimately I think you are going to evaporate the moisture in the meat even if it is delayed. Also I believe the perception of moisture in meat is less caused by water retention and more from properly rendered fat. The moisture retention in a Kamado I think really helps prevent the exterior of the meat from drying out though.


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[tony b]

On 4/23/2021 at 3:09 AM, Forrest said:

Also I believe the perception of moisture in meat is less caused by water retention and more from properly rendered fat.

Bravo!

The rest of this treatise is making my brain hurt!

The one thing to note about both of these devices is that even when the fan is not running, there is still airflow through the unit into the KK. That's why @Syzygies discussion on the addition of the damper on the fan unit is important. Like I said, on a windy day, you can get enough vacuum drag across the top hat to draw too much air into the KK and you'll lose temperature control from the fan unit. I've had it happen to me before. I usually set the Guru fan damper at least 50% close, will go even lower if it's a windy day. 

[HumphreysBBQ]

Hey All! 

   Nicole from Humphrey's Here!  We Make and Sell the Billows adapter!  They are made on our precision CNC machinery here in Maine, USA!  We have adapters for other manufacturers of fans as well such as Flame Boss, Fireboard and BBQ Guru.  

The Rigid Billows Mount – Humphreys BBQ  _  see above for images

Don't hesitate to reach out with any questions!

Thanks a bunch! Nicole

[email protected]