Steam for Bread

[Syzygies]

Lodge Logic 15-Inch Pre-Seasoned Skillet So recent bread cookbooks make it clear: Commercial bread ovens inject steam to a degree impossible at home. (A spritz from a spray bottle is about as effective as those copper films on 1950s Revere Ware.) Like all things, one can say one is having success, till one sees the results of enough steam. Then, it's "Whoah! Now I know what people are talking about." These books recommend cooking in cast iron pots, to contain the steam from the bread itself. This works, but only for shapes that fit in the pot: Tartine Bread Bouchon Bakery Flour Water Yeast Salt My Bread I found the above 15" cast iron skillet for $35 on Amazon. After hacksawing off most of the handle, it fits nicely in a KK, and is perhaps the largest, heaviest pan which will. After a 500 F preheat, it can boil off three cups of boiling water in short order. I've seen oven spring like I've never experienced before, with this much steam. This is simple physics; the thermal mass of the pan stores lots of energy, and boiling water takes less energy to turn to steam. I'm still dialing in the protocol: Upper or main deck for the bread stone? My loaves are burning from radiant dome heat, if I'm not careful. Two or three cups boiling water? The spray tends to knock down the fire temperature, and one does want a 50 F drop, but not more. At what temperature do I start? That sort of thing. Bouchon Bakery advises using stainless steel chains to build enough thermal mass to produce sufficient steam. This solution seems easier, and nicely adapted to the KK.

[DennisLinkletter]

Re: Steam for Bread

I wonder if you could rig up a small pipe thru the polder tube to add your water..

I don't understand " I've seen oven spring like I've never experienced before" oven spring?

Sounds like a fun project.. I really want to start baking bread more..

[Syzygies]

Re: Steam for Bread

I wonder if you could rig up a small pipe thru the polder tube to add your water..

I like that idea! That would allow a continual feed during the early bake.

I don't understand " I've seen oven spring like I've never experienced before" oven spring

Just quite literally what I said, I've tried the lesser solutions people use, like spritzing with a spray bottle, and it has much less effect.

[talisker63]

Re: Steam for Bread

Polder tube?

What is that?

[Syzygies]

Re: Steam for Bread

Polder tube? What is that?

The tiny probe hole, normally plugged with a silicone plug. I'm going to work on a prototype, this is a great idea.

[mguerra]

Re: Steam for Bread

OK, Syz, I think Dennis is asking you what is the meaning of the term "oven spring".

The little hole for your thermometer probe wires has been called the "Polder tube" because there is a popular brand of thermometer named Polder. I suggest we drop that term and call the little hole something else. Like "thermometer port". "Probe hole" conjures up odd notions...

[Syzygies]

Re: Steam for Bread

OK' date=' Syz, I think Dennis is asking you what is the meaning of the term "oven spring".[/quote']

A loaf of bread expands dramatically in the first few minutes of baking, with the right conditions. Explanations for why this is so should be taken with a grain of salt. This is often described as a final burst of yeast growth. More likely, it's gas from all the yeast dying, or internal steam expanding all the little air pockets created earlier by the yeast. I'd love to read a scientific analysis. Like how pork butt "dwell" can be reproduced with a wet towel, so it isn't really collagen melting after all...

In any case, not everyone slits bread but doing so controls how the crust breaks open. A good dose of steam in the oven keeps the crust from resisting this expansion. Commercial ovens continue to inject steam long after any home approach has boiled off, which is why the idea Dennis is proposing is brilliant.

So can I build this without learning to weld? We'll see.

"Probe hole" conjures up odd notions...

Hey, you're the one wearing latex gloves for a living!

[mguerra]

Re: Steam for Bread

I work from the nose up...

Not much probing.

[talisker63]

Re: Steam for Bread

Thanks. I call it a probe port...

Probe hole sounds too rude!

[Syzygies]

Re: Steam for Bread

Bayou Classic 16 Inch Skillet

This one is even heavier.

Some people throw ice cubes onto a hot tray, for bread. This takes more energy to turn the water to steam, but it prolongs the effect. I was just rereading the various Bouchon Bakery discussions, where they use chains and rocks for extra thermal mass (with no discussion of the dangers of galvanized metals at high heat; do stainless steel chains even exist?). What if I boiled water in a steel container (like one finds at commercial cookware stores, such as for steam tables) with a tiny leak. I'd have to boil inside a second container, but when the time comes, move the leaky container onto the skillet, and have it dispense boiling water over five minutes. The skillet would stay hot enough to vaporize the water as it leaked out.

[Syzygies]

Re: Steam for Bread

Here's a great link on the physics:

Counting Calories

The key numbers: It takes 80 calories to thaw a gram of ice, 100 calories to bring that gram to the boiling point, and a whopping 540 calories to then turn that gram of water to steam.

Cast iron holds about 13% as much heat as water. So a 15 lb cast iron skillet at 500 F will boil off around 250 ml of water. It makes scant difference whether one uses hot tap water, or boiling water, and the convenience of using ice cubes isn't that inefficient.

I'm now thinking, stack two skillets and use ice. I might drill a few holes in the top skillet, as I did with my cast iron Dutch oven to make a smoke pot.

[Gunner]

Re: Steam for Bread

My wife and I have cooked bread on ours with just the stone for the heat deflector and using the top rack with a baking pan or using the pizza stone. Works for us fine.

[Firemonkey]

Re: Steam for Bread

Stainless chain does exist, I bought some by the foot at either Lowes or HD to use for hanging my hammock. Marine stores will also carry it. You might also search amazon for stainless steel ball bearings, there all many sizes available up to about 1" if you just wanted to increase the metal mass in your water vessel.

I'm am all about repurposing... What about dropping the ice (or feeding water via a tube) into your drilled smoke pot, which is positioned above your new skillet? Once the heat capacity of the smoke pot is diminished, the water will drip down to a nice, hot and dry skillet to immediately evaporate? Or maybe just plug a couple of the holes to find the best rate to dispense the water to the skillet below?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Syzygies]

Re: Steam for Bread

My wife and I have cooked bread on ours with just the stone for the heat deflector and using the top rack with a baking pan or using the pizza stone. Works for us fine.

This has been my experience, too. I'm not saying that bread baked without steam is deficient. Steam can have a dramatic effect on bread baking, and may or may not be worth the trouble. I've seen this effect, and I want to deliver the steam more easily.

Stainless chain does exist' date=' I bought some by the foot at either Lowes or HD to use for hanging my hammock. Marine stores will also carry it. You might also search amazon for stainless steel ball bearings...[/quote']

Stainless steel prices out more expensive per pound than cast iron, in any form factor. And the calories delivered per pound is pretty similar across this class of metals. For convenience and price, I'm not seeing any approach that beats stacking a few large cast iron skillets.

What about dropping the ice (or feeding water via a tube) into your drilled smoke pot' date=' which is positioned above your new skillet?[/quote']

Yes, I though of this, too, and other variations on a leaky bucket. We really should be discussing this over beers, waiting for barbecue to finish...

Again, looking at the physics and costs, just stack a second skillet, and add a pound of ice, giving a chance for the steam to get going before putting in the bread. This looks easiest, in comparison the violent sizzling spray as one adds hot water makes fire control trickier.

[jclarkhpa]

Re: Steam for Bread

Does anyone know if large amounts of steam can adversely affect the KK ceramic? I remember talking to a man who builds brick ovens and bakes bread at the local farmers market. He said he doesn't do steam in the brick oven because it affects the ceramic bricks and they start spawling (sp?). He felt the steam benefits didn't outweigh the long term damage he could do to his oven.

I can't verify the truthfulness of his comments, and part of me thinks there shouldn't be a problem since smoke and food lets off a lot of moisture. Just not sure the steam you need for the bread is a higher concentration or something. I wanted to see if anyone else has any knowledge or experience with it. I wouldn't want anyone to start talking about issues with their KK in another year or two after doing a lot of steaming in it.

Aloha,

jclarkhpa

23" Dark Autumn Nebula

[Syzygies]

Re: Steam for Bread I'm back at bread experiments. I bought two rolls of stainless steel chain at Home Depot; thanks for the tip. The skillet and chain together weigh 28.4 lbs, more than enough to turn ice into 350 grams of steam. It turns out that one wants steam at the very beginning, so there's no need to feed in water as one bakes. Ice is nearly as efficient as water and far more convenient. My preferred setup is now pizza stone on main grill, and steam skillet directly on the charcoal basket, the other grills removed. One can then throw a piece of ice onto the chains through the main grill hinged door, which I've never used in my life up till now. I then close down the intake and top vents for a few minutes, to trap the steam. The fire resumes just fine later. The KK cooks by radiant heat to a greater extent than an indoor oven. I moved to the main grill to actually get further from the walls, and I'm baking at 400 F with similar effect to an indoor oven at 460 F. Others have had this experience, adjusting baking to the KK. Does anyone have a good guess as to the internal volume of a KK? I'm guessing in the neighborhood of 140 liters, about the same as an indoor oven. Water expands by 1600x as it turns to steam, so Bouchon Bakery's advice to use 350 grams of water will produce 560 liters of steam, enough to fill the KK four times over. Yes, one feels steam rushing out, but there is steam left to do the job. The bread shown is 650g total flour: 40% red winter wheat and 12% rye freshly ground and sieved to 82% extraction, and 48% white flour. It is 71% hydration (baker's percentages), 15% sourdough leaven and 2% salt (both by flour weight), 1/4 tsp yeast, and 40 ppm of ascorbic acid (to help the gluten in the "green" freshly ground flour). Bulk rise 3:20, proof rise 2:30, bake for 30 minutes. (I use a speadsheet to generate each recipe from this data.)

[cruzmisl]

Re: Steam for Bread

That is a stellar looking loaf!! Absolutely NOTHING like baking bread. The smell, tastes, textures and minimal ingredients makes bread baking fun. I've never done a loaf in my KK but this makes me want to try.

[Syzygies]

Re: Steam for Bread Dennis does make a 19" baking stone. Perhaps I need one!