tekobo

Thanks @tony b. You got me thinking. Lots of questions. So, is Tony right about the connective tissue thing? How do you know what connective tissue different cuts of meat have? I did some googling and found a site which lists the collagen content for different meat "products". Assuming that is a good measure of connective tissue, then beef shin wins at 4.76g/100g. Brisket comes in at 2.88 and skinless chicken breast (why eat that??) at 0.62. A lamb leg by comparison is at 1.68 and lamb shoulder at 2.00. So, a lamb shoulder isn't that far off brisket using this measure. All that googling got me to some interesting slow cooking sites and reminded me of your challenge to try out some sous vide to finish in the KK. Lots to explore there and I'll take up that challenge in due course. What I failed to say in my original post is that part of the reason for the choice of lamb shoulder is because The Husband doesn't want to have to stand there carving on the night so the mission I have been given is to get the lamb to a state where it can be shredded with forks. My usual method to achieve that is the relatively low temperature long cook that I proposed. Still thinking about what to do on Sunday though. One of the sides that I have planned is boulangere potatoes. I was looking through a list of potato recipes and the magic of potatoes cooking under your roast, with fat dripping down onto them, was too good for me to resist. I can fit two le Creuset roasting pans in side by side, on the deflector in the 23" and that seemed like a good way to go. Why have you all abandoned your deflectors? Because they are heavy and the drip pan will do? For the potato gig, the deflector provides a good flat surface for the pans so I may use it or see if the lower grate is just as good. A bit worried about crunching up the potatoes too fast if the pans are directly above the heat on the grate so that's where your advice re the drip pan lower down would come in. Which brings me to timing. On a 7 hour cook, the potatoes will have been in way too long. Leg of lamb would be more compatible for timing. So, I either swap to leg or stick with shoulder but put the potatoes in later, potentially missing out on some of the early fat from the lamb. Decisions, decisions. But fun ones to have to make. Am loving the versatility of my new toys.

Hello, I am researching in advance of my big cook on Sunday night. I cooked a leg of lamb last night - most of the time indirect above the cold half of the firebox and moved over to the fire side to brown. It came out very well but there was a lot of smoke from the lamb fat dripping on to the coals. For New Year's Eve I have decided to go with lamb shoulder. Possibly two. The advice from @Tucker above looks good to me but I realise it was from 2012. Has anything changed in the world of KK cooking since then that I should know about? If I go for two shoulders they won't fit on one layer. Maybe stack on main and upper grate? My usual oven mode is 110-130C for seven hours and I would look to do similar here. No smoking planned, smoke pot not yet ready to commission. All advice gratefully received.

Good luck with a fix today!

Ha ha. Yes, I would notice. And yes, you would be very welcome. I imagine successful parties have lots in common with establishing a cult. We are always happy to draw new people in and the "regulars" feel more appreciated when others are drawn into the circle. What fun we will have. So far I am settled on sausages, chicken thighs and drumsticks on the 23 and either lamb shoulder or leg on the 21. Shoulder makes more sense because it will be more forgiving if I get the temps/timing wrong. Also wondering about a cod in a cazuela for those who don't eat meat. I should be set on a menu by Saturday and I promise to share some pics. Happy Holidays.

All good. I can confirm that my baking stones fit just fine in both KKs with no need for any metal work. AND I have got them the right way round this time Seeing some slow roasted lamb in my near term future, need to get the 21 looking a little less pristine!

A little bit of curiosity wasn't going to kill this cat but bashing my KK about might!

Or I could just use it as Dennis designed it - on the 23!

Ah, pretty obvious now I look at it. I was just "dressing" the KK for its photo shoot, should have paid more attention.

This toy is awesome: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001MU10GA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 You pull the trigger and out comes a jet of flame. I have not needed to use any sort of blower at all with it and the coals have come alight reliably and well with 1-2 minutes of attention. Could possibly do less, I will need to experiment. Having the kit to switch a KK on relatively quickly and the fact that you can kill the fire dead when you have finished cooking are great bonuses. It makes the world of outdoor cooking so much more accessible. Loving it.

I was just reminded of a great book: "Secrets of the Patagonian Barbecue". It is full of food porn, pictures of gorgeous cuts of grilled meat. It is also very macho. I think the girls get to do the salad and the boys grill. A great book to own if you can get hold of it as there is a lot of detail about South American cuts and grilling techniques if you are interested. Stupidly expensive on amazon for some reason, can't work out why, but hopefully you can find a cheaper used copy.

Hi @Bruce Pearson, no criteria yet for choosing between them. I like how the KKs retain heat so I am wondering how to plan things so that I start with a grilled meal then finish with a casserole cook for use another day. Either would work for that. I will be rigging up one of the BBQs with the DigiQ and the rotisserie is for the 23" so those decisions will also affect my choice. The first big cook is on New Year's Eve for 50-70 people depending on who turns up. I think a low and slow on the 21" and grilling on the 23" may be the way to go.

I'll get to the Guru and I am sure I will appreciate the help. In the meantime, my discovery of the year is the awesome propane torch. I can light a fire! Reliably and well. Hurrah.

@Aussie Ora, please post these somewhere else. The Husband might see your wonderful cooks and start to blame me for swapping his Argentinian BBQ for the KKs! Really authentic and tasty looking meat cuts. Kudos.

Thanks all. I am having a great time playing with my new toys. In response to @Grant's question, yes the 21" has a lower, main and upper grate. I wondered if the 23" baking stone would fit on the main grate in the 21". It doesn't.

My new friends arrived yesterday and I couldn't be happier. This is a short picture story to introduce you to them and give you a feel for the differences between the 23 Ultimate and the new 21 Supreme. First, I have to cede to Dennis and refer you to his photos and announcement here: Here is a picture of the two of them installed at our home in England. They are looking pretty and our "ODK" will get a lick of paint or tiles in the summer to provide a more suitable setting. Here is a shot to show off the 21's manly shoulders And the 23's rounded belly by comparison The main grates don't look too different to each other in terms of surface area But the baking stones do! I've left the heat deflectors in their packaging for the moment because so few of you seem to use them! And here is a comparison between the fire baskets and the drip pans And finally, the view that I am so lucky to have just outside my door I will post any additional differences as I find them. Do ask if there are any photos you would like or things that you want to know about them.

I've made all the rookie mistakes possible today and now know why the guru users say it makes sense to be tech assisted. I also know what I did wrong and am hoping I will get the hang of it soon. I did buy one DigiQ but will hold off installing it while I make sense of the KKs. From getting to a steady 150 C, to turning the damper the wrong way and soaring to 250 C+, to bringing it down slowly by closing down the damper to falling asleep and waking to find the fire had actually gone out. Oh well, back on track. The bourguignon is a forgiving dish and will keep going through the evening and into the night. I don't know if you were all dead sure about the colour(s) you selected for your KKs. I wasn't and wondered if there would be some days when the cobalt blue would be just too cheerful. I have no such doubts now and will leave you with a picture of them from last night, not looking too "shouty". I think they are going to fit right in.

And Merry Christmas from me too!

That was so funny. I had told them that it should take four people to lift it but they said they were fine. I said I didn't want to break them before they'd finished the job. Their response was that they had back up to fill in if they broke. Anyway, once they had tried a lift, they were sufficiently rattled to use the winch to make sure the 23 was steady in its descent. They then started fussing because they couldn't orient the 21 so the the winch could support them. At that point I had to tell them to man up and put their boy's toys away. They did and it went like a dream. They are going to advertise themselves as expert BBQ movers. To be fair, they were very careful and showed the KKs respect. They wanted to know if I'd seen one before I ordered them. I hadn't. It's hard to explain how Dennis' creations move you even when you have only seen them online.

Thanks @MacKenzie KK breakfast of warmed up wings and left over beans here!

I feel like a kid at Christmas. I fell asleep at 1am and was awake again at 5am, running through what I will do today. And what a day it will be. I have already been out in the dark to loosen the vent and crack open the KK, thanks for the advice @MacKenzie. I've wandered round the house and located a sink to soak my grills in. Well, I haven't actually located it because it is in the greenhouse outside but I know where they will be going. No whole chickens in my near future @tony b. The capons that arrived yesterday are my Christmas present to my father-in-law who is set on cooking coq au vin. He wanted blood too (apparently it is part of the traditional recipe) but the supplier ignored my whole order completely when I asked last time. I didn't want to jeopardise my access to poultry over the holidays so no blood requested. Thank you all for your good wishes and advice. Today I will be playing with fire. I will fill(!) and light up the 23 and practice with the vents through the day as @Pequod suggested. Given the KK will be hot, I will get on and cook the pig cheek bourguignon that's been on my list all week. And take photos. And do all the other fun things there are to do at this time of year. I think I am getting to like Christmas again. I know some of you are getting KK signs for your Christmas presents. I don't think mine came with any but do say if they are secreted somewhere in/on the case and I have missed them. No matter, the KKs are great as they are. And no, I haven't forgotten about venting in my haste to get on. We have a new year's party planned and I have promised a bbq. Will keep temps within range until after the party and start the new year with a vent. And breathe.

What a great day. I am so happy that I didn't wait to get everything just right before I started to cook. I love the way the KKs look, I respect and adore the engineering but they are here to provide me with food and I don't want to be scared of them. We lit coals in the 21" and after first stabilising at about 140degrees C I took it up to 160 and put the chicken on. I had hoped to get it hotter but went with it anyway. What did I learn? First: step away from the damper! Leave it alone and let the temperatures settle. Second: put more char in the bowl. The KK's efficiency may be legendary but it can't cook on a grapefruit sized pile of coals. Dad and The Husband bailed out at about 9:30pm and I put their wings, drumsticks and thighs in the indoor oven. I held out until 10:30pm by which time the wings were more like they had been in a long slow sous vide than a BBQ. Very tasty. I have left the rest in to cook in the ambient heat from the remaining few coals. Will "pull"(?) them soon and shut the machine down. The 21 feels like a good size for a greedy family of 2-3. I look forward to trying the 23 tomorrow. The photos reflect a less than perfect cook but I am OK with that. Any advice on corrective actions to take gratefully received. @Grant, I will definitely show you some detail on the 21. I think it is worth a separate post, comparing it to the 23 and generally getting to know it. Come on baby, light my fire: What was left after the rest of the chicken went into the IDK Plated in honour of our Brazilian holiday, with fried rice, beans, farofa and chilli.

Oh yes! What fun. Everything happened so fast. The first KK was already being wheeled down our alleyway by the time I got out and they were both deposited, in quick succession, in our garden. Now I know why the delivery company were so reluctant to deliver to our narrow back road: Then I had a bit of a panic when I realised I hadn't got them to orient the boxes the right way for the ramp to work. That is, until we realised the ramp wouldn't work because the delivery company had put an additional pallet under the KK pallet and so the ramp wasn't up to the job. Disembarkation option 1: the boys tried lifting and realised they needed to respect these KKs. Disembarkation option 2: not the right level Disembarkation option 3: bingo! That's why you buy two KKs. So you can screw your two ramps together. A bit of fun bashing out the box under the KK and then a quick run down the ramp, supported by a winch. Much easier with the 21" And here they are in situ. Better shots when it is light tomorrow. Off to light a fire. Yippee! I think the first cook is going to be some no fuss chicken wings.

Not yet. Delivery man rang to say he was 30-45 minutes away. That was 38 minutes ago. Time to go outside and do the waiting for KK dance methinks.

Oh good, somewhere I'd be welcome I hope. Although your football team isn't doing so well. I have followed Philly for years and am just devastated about Wentz's injury. I suspect that is a subject for another forum that I am not yet a member of. To bed now. I think you can probably tell that I am in a pre-delivery frenzy and should get some sleep....

Ha ha. You may well be right. I was hoping Tony wouldn't be offended by my comment and now I have a reason to laugh rather than cringe at my rather African lack of tact...