Brisket... Separate the flat and the point?

[leejp]

Anyone here cooked the two halves of Brisket separately? Doing a full packer cut every time I want Brisket is a bit of an overkill for a family of 4. I rather do the flat for a meal and save the tip for another.

Actually... I think I can convince my Butcher to sell me just the flat portion of the packer cut (all the more reason to get to know your butcher)... and avoid having to vac-pack and store it frozen.

If you do this... which cut do you prefer? I always put the temperature probe in the flat so it's done when the Brisket comes off the grill. I find the point's lways a bit overdone this way. Would it be different f the probe were in the point?

And the always... Fat side up or down?

[tskyrocket]

I go fat side down and cook the packer as a whole, as I love a mixture of flat and point as my flats can tend to be dry for my tastes.

I've read about people who cook it whole while monitoring the flat until it is done. Then they separate the two halves and put the point back on until it is done. I'll try this on my next cook.

[Porkchop]

tskyrocket describes my method exactly. thing about the flat/point separation, having done tons of brisket, is that layer of fat between the point and flat. it is not nice fat, and is full of veins.

separate, and scrape fat left on flat away with the knife blade, until you uncover the muscle and can see the grain. a large vein runs nearly end to end thru the center of the flat, so you should cut that out with the knife, then slice against the grain. point goes back on the grill for several more hours. then scrape the fat and veins from the bottom of the point, roll it up, and chop for chopped beef sammiches. leave some fat from the top of the point, as it keeps the meat moist.

other thing about the 2 sections is that the grain on the point runs opposite the grain on the flat, so when you cut against the grain on the flat, once you get to the point, it will not cut as nicely.

so, my advice jack, is cook whole, separate and cook point. after serving flat, pull point off cooker, chop, and store in zippy bag in the fridge. thaw and reheat later.

that being said, i'm done with briskets! pain in the butt. if i want slow cooked beef, i'll do a chuck roll!

[TheNakedWhiz]

When I can find a whole brisket, I cook them whole. When the flat is done, I take off the point, chop it for burnt ends, and wrap the flat to put it into the cooler. Best of both worlds!

[Curly]

I've only done one brisket and it turned out very good. I cooked it all at the same time without cutting it in too. I'll probably to as TNW does on my next one...if I can find a whole one

When I can find a whole brisket, I cook them whole. When the flat is done, I take off the point, chop it for burnt ends, and wrap the flat to put it into the cooler. Best of both worlds!

I've heard about using for burnt ends...what exactly do you mean by that?

[TheNakedWhiz]

Well, the way I saw it done on TV at Sonny Bryants or one of the other famous places, you chop the point, add sauce, then put the pan back on the cooker for a couple of hours to get some more smoke. Serve on buns. Yum!

[leejp]

So porkchop... point takes longer than the flat?

I've read conflicting info regarding what gets done first, the flat or the point...

It would seem that since the point is "fattier", that the point would take longer than the flat. But some very experienced folks are saying the the flat takes longer.

[Porkchop]

"done" can be relative. from my perspective, the flat is ready first. HOWEVER, if you are cooking a packer trim brisket, there's a portion of the flat that is covered by the point. it cooks differently.

i used to to brisket for a q joint here in town, and have literally done "tons". in my experience, the points benefit from a longer time in the smoke. way we did it was wrap the whole brisket in HD saran and kept warm in a heated "sham" until served. the brisket was then cut free from the saran, separated into point and flat. the flat was then hand cut (by me often) in front of the customer for sammiches and plates, and the point was put into a steam table for cleaning and chopping later. they tended to sit in there for hours, and were nice and tender when ready to chop.

my experience with it. like i said, i'm pretty much done with brisket unless i'm paid/requested to do one by a friend/family member. i won't do them for my personal enjoyment tho. i don't like em. too much work.

[PrimoSand]

how do you cook a brisket ????

Hi Folks,

Can anyone who knows please give me the basics on how to cook a flat 5 lb brisket in my new KK ?

What I've read so far is 225 degrees for about 12 hours with a heat deflector or until internal temp gets to 190. Then take it out/off and wrap in foil and towels, put in a cooler for about 10 more hours.

Is that cooler part really necessary ?

thanks in advance for the help.

jb

[Sanny]

Re: how do you cook a brisket ????

...Is that cooler part really necessary ?

thanks in advance for the help.

jb

Hey, JB. There is a "rest" necessary to allow the meat to reabsorb the juices that wander about inside during the cook. If you slice it immediately, the juice will run all over the plate, and your meat could be dry. Not good, after all that work. Also, the internal temp of the meat will rise about 10 degrees during the rest (keep that in mind when you are measuring internal temp and deciding when to take it off the grill).

People often wrap the meat in something and put it in the cooler so it doesn't get cold during the rest. Some just cover it and leave it on the counter. Your call. The rest is often 20 mins or half hour.

HOWEVER, it's not necessary to stuff the wrapped meat in a cooler for half a day. If you read the posts of the people who kept the meat in the cooler that long, you'll notice that the cook was finished hours before the guests were going to arrive. Brisket was out in the morning, but no guests until supper. Or we decided to have a late supper. Something like that.

Rather than have cold manky meat, the folks wrapped the brisket in foil and towels, and put it in a cooler to stay at a reasonable temp until they serve.

[Fetzervalve]

Roger that Sanny,

I once had a butt finish 'round 2AM, (notice me talking like an ol' timer) needless to say, I wasn't going to be pulling pork in the wee hours. I put a Polder probe in and foiled, wrapped in several towels, tossed into cooler and back to sleep and pulled it at a more civilized time. I don't recall the temps, but it held a respectable temp till morning.. if you have probe thermometer jam it in and put the unit on the cooler, then you don't have to wonder if it's getting too cool.

[Sanny]

Yah, Festervalve, I've done the "what do you MEAN it's ready at 3 in the morning????" thing, too. Sux.

[ThreeDJ16]

Re: how do you cook a brisket ????

Hi Folks,

Can anyone who knows please give me the basics on how to cook a flat 5 lb brisket in my new KK ?

What I've read so far is 225 degrees for about 12 hours with a heat deflector or until internal temp gets to 190. Then take it out/off and wrap in foil and towels, put in a cooler for about 10 more hours.

Is that cooler part really necessary ?

thanks in advance for the help.

jb

I might be a little worried about a 5lb flat going for 12 hours - probably gonna be dry. More and more people are subscribing to the theory of cooking it hotter and faster for a more moist brisket (especially being you are only cooking a flat verses the whole packers cut). I cooked one a couple weeks ago at around 250 (trying to recall the time, but I am thinking more like 6 hours). I also pulled it off a bit early, wrapped in foil, placed in cooler and let rest for a couple hours. Very moist, though I think I pulled it off a bit early as the connective tissues were still slightly intact ( I pulled at 180 - too early). Next time I will shoot for a little closer to 190. Generally I prefer to cook whole briskets verses the flat as they seem to be more forgiving.

-=Jasen=-

[Porkchop]

Re: how do you cook a brisket ????

[Generally I prefer to cook whole briskets verses the flat as they seem to be more forgiving.

yep. brisket ornery anyhow. the whole "letting it rest" thing is actually part of the cooking process; that's the best way to think of it. the brisket continues to cook while it is "hotboxed". during this period, the connective tissue should continue to break down. check the link for the general idea...

http://www.selfsufficientish.com/hayboxcooker.htm

http://www.facilities.ohiou.edu/conservation/documents/Haybox_flyer.pdf

so, basically, you use old towels instead of hay, and it works like a charm. is it necessary? i guess it depends on your definition of "necessary"; it sure doesn't hurt. works SUPER on pork butts!

[PrimoSand]

thanks for the help.

Well I'd just like to say "thanks" to everyone for their help with this brisket that I cooked. I believe I sent PMs to all who replied but if I missed anyone thanks again for your help.

Since I do not have a Guru or the other one ? (yet) I had to rely on an internal thermometer and just popping the lid at some point to see what the meat temp was. So at 12 hours I opened the lid and found the internal temp at 189. I pulled the brisket off and wrapped it in foil and towels and put it in the oven (no heat, door closed, could not find my cooler) for about 6 more hours and headed down to the beach to play some volleyball.

My old geezer self and my really old geezer partner could only win 2 out of 6. Those young 20/30 somethings are tough to beat.

So anyway after the VB my partner came over, my wife arrived home from work and we unwrapped the brisket to see what we had.

It shrunk .... I'd say at least 30%. It was a flat, 5lbs to start. I started slicing on the end and it was pretty juicy and looked really nice but as we got to the middle it started getting dry. I thought that was odd that the ends would be nice and moist but the center area was dry. The brisket as a whole made for some good sandwiches and I'd say for a first attempt it wasn't too bad. Next time I do a similar size I'd probably pull it off at say 175/180 or so?? The real problem I had was not knowing the internal meat temp without popping the lid. So it looks like I'll need to spring for a guru or .... what's the other one a "stoker" ??

Dennis tells me he uses and recommends a Maverick, Redi Check for only $30. That sounds like a nice low price but I'm not opposed to spending more for good quality equipment.

Oh hold on .... Golden Retriever time out, someone needs his 11:30 ear scratch 10 minutes early today.

Ok so ..... if you all would help me out again I'd like to hear your opinions on which electronic thermometer to buy and maybe why you like your recommendation. Lets just pretend money isn't an issue.

I'll go make a brisket sandwich and wait to hear from ya'll.

Thanks again for all your help, it was very nice of you to take the time to try and help us out.

Jeff Byers

[Firemonkey]

Primo, when you say the middle got dry, are you sure that it wasn't just tougher? Maybe the outside had more time to render the connective tissues to juice?

The Naked whiz has good reviews of both the stoker and the guru on his site. you should start there for some comparison. With money no object, you may like the wireless guru, which lets you adjust and monitor your cooker from your chair.

The stoker supports monitoring and controlling of several grills at once, so if you want that feature, you need a stoker.

There are still a great majority of ceramic users who do not use either (myself included). Your KK will easily hold any temperature you set it for, once you get used to how to set the top and draft door. Just make sure you have plenty of lump in there so you dont run out. You can always reuse the leftover.

I do have a few Maverick Readyset thermometers, and they do just fine. I got the single probe remote model at BJs wholesale for about $12. That was cheaper than a replacement probe so I picked up a couple. It doesnt control the temperature, but it does allow me to monitor the meat temp from inside, and it has an alarm you can set for a target temp. I may someday get a guru or stoker, but more as a toy than a necessity. If you ask porkchop, he will likely tell you that you have to learn manual temp control as a rite of passage first!

[Sanny]

Jeff, sounds like a terrific first effort!

If you look around the boards, you'll find that gurus/stokers and mavericks are different animals, sort of. The guri and stoker stuff actually controls the temp of your cooker, through fans and vents that the guru or stoker will adjust on its own. Hands free, if you will. If you have a "ramp" feature, they'll even stop the cook when your meat is at temp. Or so I believe. I don't have either one.

Maverick and similar are remote meat thermometers. Plug into meat inside the cooker, and you can see the meat temp from outside the cooker, without having to open the door. It assumes you are in control of your cooking temp.

If you are comfy with your ability to control your cooker temp, then try the Maverick type to start. See how you do.

[primeats]

thermometers

i've had great luck with the polder thermometers, many varieties and they get cheaper all the time. If you cook at over 550 the silicone plug on the open end of the probe and the wire itself will get fried. But these are really foolproof more or less.(what a disclaimer)

[Keytickler]

Am I crazy to try this as a break in for my new KK?

Howdy, y'all. I just took delivery of my new 23" Gen II OTB KK. Many thanks to Primeats for his excellent assistance while I was shopping for the new BBQ, and during unpacking and setup. I live quite close to his store.

Weather here has been cool and rainy, so I haven't used it yet, but this weekend will be the first time to fire it up and start cooking. I'm going to do a 6 lb. brisket flat. I've never BBQed a brisket before, though I've done lots as pot roasts and oven roasts over the years.

I have a recipe in a Stephen Raichlin cookbook for brisket that looks very doable. Put a good rub on the meat on all sides, let it marinate if possible, put the brisket in an aluminum pan fat side up, indirect heat, and cook low and slow (<250 degrees) until the meat is 190 degrees internally. The meat sits in the pan in its own juices to stay moist. You use the pan drippings (perhaps with a little ketchup mixed in) as a sauce when you serve the meat.

If I can, as a newbie, get the fire properly regulated up to but not above the correct temp, I should be able to pull this off.

Here are my questions. The recipe calls for basting with a mop sauce every hour. Do you experienced KK cooks do this, or just let it cook all sealed up with the lid latched?

Do you periodically add more wood chips for smoke while it's cooking? If so, do you use a foil pouch or a smoker box on the coals or on the lower grate, or do you just toss the wet chips on the charcoal?

How long do you estimate that this may take before the meat is at the right temp? Timing is everything. I bought a meat thermometer today that has a remote display, so it should be easy to monitor.

Glad to be with you now!

Keytickler

[jdbower]

I'll send my reply to your dedicated thread which should get more attention.