Sharp Knives 2.0

[GrillingMontana]

I did not want to hijack @Bosco s thread on knives so I started a new one.

 

With the holidays around the corner, I am wondering if there is a consensus on knife sharpening and what works best?

 

I do have an electric chefs choice sharpener which works well but I am not shaving with it.

 

I also have a oval shaped diamond hone stick from the restaurant supply store which I never have thought does much.

 

Finally, I have a 4 sided harbor freight tool wet stone but also no real luck.

 

So what do you knife aficionados use to keep an edge on your blade?

 

And @Bosco, I hope that cut heals quickly.

[tomahawk66]

I use a honing steel before and after each use, then when it gets too blunt I use a wet stone.

Took me a while to learn how to do it right, but works a treat

Regards,

Oliver

In Singapore. Soon to be the proud owner of a Cobalt Blue 32 😄

[Syzygies]

Keep a water stone flat with a diamond stone (who cuts the barber?)

[bgrant3406]

I use a steel before use, a ceramic hone for a quick touch up sharpening and an Edge Pro Apex for more in-depth sharpening.

[5698k]

Steels, and ceramics do not sharpen, they simply re shape the blade. The only way to sharpen is to remove metal. Stones are the least exspensive, consistent way to sharpen. An easy, effective tool is the worksharp. It's a small, electric, belt drive, that uses a varying grit level bands to produce a good edge. Another tool is the edge pro, which is a tool using stones, and has a stand, allowing the user to set the honing angle, making for an easier way to get a consistent edge. There are other tools out there, varying in cost, and ease of use, but ya gotta remove metal to sharpen.

Robert

[egmiii]

I bought an Edge Pro Professional a few years ago. I use it about once or twice a year. The honing steel or ceramic rod are used almost daily to reshape the blade.

[Syzygies]

Steels, and ceramics do not sharpen

 

I have an old desk in my university office. A monumental hunk of solid wood, marred by disintegrating varnish of unknown type. Using the top has felt for years like a day at the beach. The last thing I want in that difficult-to-clean space is messy solvents and/or a power sander. A heat gun might help...

 

Before sandpaper, people used "cabinet scrapers". The Japanese hand methods have survived better in our imaginations: One spent as long preparing tools as using them. Here, a cabinet scraper can only be used so long before it needs a new edge preparation. There's a three step metal-working process that I've never witnessed in person, that leads to the perfect microscopic lip on the metal that does the scraping.

 

On one hand, mastering this would be an advanced school in metal care, I'd have to be better at sharpening knives afterward, even if it's not really the same process.

 

On the other hand, the first $5 scraper did more than half the job, and life is short, I'm thinking of just buying a couple more. Embarrassing, like buying a new flashlight when the batteries fail, but practical. I'll ship the spent scrapers to California, and see if I ever play with them in my shop.

[Syzygies]

I have over a dozen waterstones in two locations, and several decades of practice using them for routine knife sharpening. The difference is more dramatic with Japanese knives, as German knives are a lot of work to get sharp this way, and the Japanese knives get sharper. I only use German knives when a thinner Japanese knife might get damaged. I have discarded any other sharpening system that has come my way, including at least one motorized device with celebrity chef endorsements. Anything else that doesn't require its own lab bench is a joke, compared to a waterstone.

 

One learns the ideal angle by sound, just as one learns the ideal paella socarrat by sound. This isn't a big deal, one will get better.

 

The Japanese revere waterstones, and one can spent a thousand dollars on stones harvested from fabled island quarries. Even affordable natural stones tend to humiliate the user, one moment of loss of control and the stone is gouged. The practical choice is a synthetic stone, and the following combo stone rules all others, a great value:

 

Norton 24450 Japanese-Style Combination Waterstone 1000/4000 Grit, 8-Inch by 3-Inch by 1-Inch

 

One could get a pair of combo stones for four grits, but this is overthinking the problem:

 

Norton Waterstone Starter Kit: 220/1000 grit stone, 4000/8000 grit stone, SiC flattening stone

 

The 220 grit might be useful in a shop but is never needed for kitchen knives. 8000 is unnecessarily fine; better to sharpen more often, with a single combo stone that isn't a daunting task to use. Hide Tools offers a popular sharpening service in Berkeley, and I asked; they don't go beyond 4000. This isn't woodworking, and like cleaning a KK there will be more ash; sharpen again sooner!

 

Stones need to be soaked briefly; I used to place mine on a mortar in the sink, with the faucet dribbling as I worked. This holder is far easier; any variant will do:

 

Steelex D1091 Sharpening Stone Holder

 

Sharpening stones get out of true rather quickly. To save money, one can tape a piece of fine wet/dry sandpaper to a flat surface. However, know thyself, one will never do this often enough. Once one learns to get the stone truly flat before each session, it becomes apparent that this is critical to the best results, well worth the effort. I can't vouch for this flattener, but it isn't a budget breaker:

 

Norton Flattening Stone for Waterstones

 

There are many alternatives, and Atoma diamond sharpeners have a following. This is what I use:

 

Atoma Diamond Sharpener Medium - #400

 

To see how far people take this, here's some insight into the differences in diamond sharpeners:

 

DMT vs. Atoma Diamond Plates For the Edge Pro – A Microscopic Comparison

 

I've left out some basics that one should read online. The above is more opinion, conclusions I've drawn that weren't immediately clear from reading about the basics. The above is what I actually do, not nearly often enough, decades after any precious attachments to unnecessary rituals have worn off. I'm quite restless until I find something that works (many cookers before the KK, dozens of programming languages before Haskell), and this works.

[GoFrogs91]

I have all Japanese knives and have been really pleased with this system.

http://www.kmesharp.com/kmeknshsy.html

Benton

[CeramicChef]

I have my knives sharpened by a professional. He makes knives of all manner and sharpens/hones/strops them to an incredible edge. What he charges me is ridiculously cheap. He's taught me how to really recondition the edge with a steel and that keeps 'em sharp for a season.

As 5698k says above, the only way to sharpen is remove a bit of metal. A steel/ceramic merely reconditions a blade. I'm not good enough to go removing metal. I leave that to my guy.

[Firemonkey]

I think I am getting lazy in my old age. 

 

I have a spyderco sharpmaker that I used to be happy with, and could get a good edge from.  But more recently I haven't had as much satisfaction with it - probably because I dont have the patience to stand there and hone on the thing as long as I used to.  A while ago I was looking into different sharpening systems, like Edge Pro, and even a couple belt sander options.   And then I had an epiphany - all these represented a bunch of hassle, setup, and complicated steps, when all I really wanted to do was pick up a knife and enjoy the satisfaction of a razor sharp edge.  This is sort of like my evolution with computers and electronics - once a fun hobby, now I LOATHE when something doesn't "just work" and I have to do a bunch of stupid tricks to make something function.  Sharpening my knives did not need to be an exercise in Zen-craft.

 

So I ordered a Chefs Choice 15 Trizor XV from Amazon.  It sharpens to a 15 degree edge in 3 stages; the first is a coarse grind to convert your edge down to 15 degrees if its not already, so you'll probably only use it once  The second is a typical electric sharpening grit, and the final is a strop.

 

My knives are just Wusthoff Classics that are about 15 years old, and while I don't want to abuse them unnecessarily, it still made me cringe to drag them through the diamond wheel on the first stage of the sharpener.  I had to reassure myself that even if the electric sharpener is more aggressive than other methods, that if these knives lasted a decade with use of an electric sharpener, I coupld handle replacing knives as a wear item for the convenience.  After a few passes on each side, through each stage, my knives have NEVER been so sharp.  I did actually shave a few spots on my arms to show my kids that they they needed to be more careful now.  The wife missed the demonstration, but soon found out when she realized her smaller chef's knife was cutting through her flexible cutting mat.  And the kitchen sponge as she washed the knife...

 

Every couple of weeks I run the more heavily used knives through the third stage (strop) and they stay razor sharp.  Hassle free.  It takes longer to get the sharpener out because I don't keep it on my counter, than it does to maintain the razor edge.   It makes me kick myself for being a purist and scoffing at electric sharpeners for so long.  Maybe its just this model, but I am thoroughly impressed.  The way the edge is maintained with only a few passes through the stropping stage a couple times a month leads me to believe these knives will last another 15 years, even WITH an electric sharpener.

[Cookie]

I think I am getting lazy in my old age. 

 

I have a spyderco sharpmaker that I used to be happy with, and could get a good edge from.  But more recently I haven't had as much satisfaction with it - probably because I dont have the patience to stand there and hone on the thing as long as I used to.  A while ago I was looking into different sharpening systems, like Edge Pro, and even a couple belt sander options.   And then I had an epiphany - all these represented a bunch of hassle, setup, and complicated steps, when all I really wanted to do was pick up a knife and enjoy the satisfaction of a razor sharp edge.  This is sort of like my evolution with computers and electronics - once a fun hobby, now I LOATHE when something doesn't "just work" and I have to do a bunch of stupid tricks to make something function.  Sharpening my knives did not need to be an exercise in Zen-craft.

 

So I ordered a Chefs Choice 15 Trizor XV from Amazon.  It sharpens to a 15 degree edge in 3 stages; the first is a coarse grind to convert your edge down to 15 degrees if its not already, so you'll probably only use it once  The second is a typical electric sharpening grit, and the final is a strop.

 

My knives are just Wusthoff Classics that are about 15 years old, and while I don't want to abuse them unnecessarily, it still made me cringe to drag them through the diamond wheel on the first stage of the sharpener.  I had to reassure myself that even if the electric sharpener is more aggressive than other methods, that if these knives lasted a decade with use of an electric sharpener, I coupld handle replacing knives as a wear item for the convenience.  After a few passes on each side, through each stage, my knives have NEVER been so sharp.  I did actually shave a few spots on my arms to show my kids that they they needed to be more careful now.  The wife missed the demonstration, but soon found out when she realized her smaller chef's knife was cutting through her flexible cutting mat.  And the kitchen sponge as she washed the knife...

 

Every couple of weeks I run the more heavily used knives through the third stage (strop) and they stay razor sharp.  Hassle free.  It takes longer to get the sharpener out because I don't keep it on my counter, than it does to maintain the razor edge.   It makes me kick myself for being a purist and scoffing at electric sharpeners for so long.  Maybe its just this model, but I am thoroughly impressed.  The way the edge is maintained with only a few passes through the stropping stage a couple times a month leads me to believe these knives will last another 15 years, even WITH an electric sharpener.

 

Couldn't agree more, same device and method I use and I get complaints from my wife that the knives are too sharp.

[bosco]

I have a top of the line chefs choice and it has been good. The issue is/was that the coarse grind creates an edge that was designed for my knives. I have collected a kitchen series of knives over the past two years and love them. I found that the master chef changed the way that they work. I sharpen more often as well.

Last month I got the new gadget designed for my blades. It's a manual feed style but I tell you.... These knives are as sharp as can be now. Very pleased with my little gadget and it was only 20.00. It is designed to sharpen the blade to henckels blades degree so it really does a number on my set!!

[Saucier]

I use the Tormek water cooled system here... Had it for years, works great, as the angle is always consistent which is nearly impossible to do free hand.. I use the guide for grinding, but do free hand it for the strop wheel...  A little pricy to start, but once you have done your knife collection once, easy to touch up with just the fine grind and strop...

 

http://www.amazon.com/Cooled-Sharpening-Tormek-T4-Quality/dp/B00N0VJ90S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1449408398&sr=8-1&keywords=tormek