Terrible issues with temp control and charcoal burning in one isolated spot not catching surrounding charco

[Mcdddy]

Hi  All - I’m getting super frustrated each summer using my KK 32 trying to get good temp control and most importantly getting my charcoal to ignite surrounding charcoal during the cook it seems to end up burning well in one spot leaving surrounding charcoal unlit or it is lit initially it extinguishes during the cook. So consequently on nearly every cook after a couple of hours the one spot burns down temps start to dip and then I don’t know what to do? Move the unlit charcoal over to it to put it on top? Or?

essentially I have very little confidence that during a long cook I won’t have to adjust or rearrange coals or add more coals. Is this others experience? I’m hoping not because accessing the firebox ie charcoal basketduring a cook isn’t easy.

not sure if this is a clue to what’s going on but the dome temp in the beginning of getting to temp and early on in the cook is much lower like 50 deg lower than grate temp then midway thru cook or so it’s the same. Wondering if this means I didn’t let it heat soak long enough before putting meat on?

am I not arranging my charcoal correctly? Should I be using less width in  the basket splitter and mound it up higher?

usually the cook isn’t too bad temp wise until one area with the most lit coals burns down leading to dipping temps and then what do I do?

I start my fire by igniting the surface of the entire area of charcoal.

I usually use 1/2 basket for a 10-12 hour cook at 225-250.

Tonight I spent most ofd the night chasing temps.

also using the basket splitter to limit the amount of charcoal - one side the side with the coals always has a hotter grate temp on one side so I don’t understand why there isn’t a better way to limit the charcoal without using a splitter that puts all the charcoal on one side?

 

I never had this issue with my kamado Joe and I’m wondering if it’s partly because the KJs basket was circular with steeper walls forcing the charcoal to remain tightly in contact?

 

Edited September 8 by Mcdddy

[C6Bill]

What brand of lump are you using ? You should never need to rearrange the coals on a 10 to 12 hour cook. Just fill the basket, light it in one or two spots, then adjust your vents and add your foil to catch drippings, i use a small cookie sheet under my foil. And just keep it simple, don't be in there messing with coals and checking temps on different areas of the grate. That is probably why you are chasing temps.

 

Are you using a controller of some sorts, if you are make sure the fan isn't one that runs at 100% then shuts off, that is just too much air for a KK.

[tony b]

My first thought is that your charcoal has gotten damp somehow and isn't catching except under direct flame.

As C6Bill said, don't chase the temps around. The beauty of the KK is the "set it and forget it" nature of the dampers. Fill the basket, light one spot, set your dampers for the target temp and walk away. 

Your experience with the 50F degree difference between dome and grate initially is true to form, and as you noted, it balances out as the cook progresses. 

The basket splitter is typically only used when you want two-zone heat, like doing a slow roast on the cooler side, followed by a reverse sear on the direct heat side. Or, using the rotisserie so the meat rotates in/out of the direct heat zone. While you can use the splitter arrangement to do a long low & slow cook (butts, briskets, etc.), I prefer the full basket setup with the foil barrier, as C6Bill described. 

[DennisLinkletter]

14 hours ago, Mcdddy said:

I start my fire by igniting the surface of the entire area of charcoal.

I usually use 1/2 basket for a 10-12 hour cook at 225-250.

I'm not sure how you are lighting the surface of the "entire area of charcoal", but please don't.  Just light a grapefruit volume of charcoal in ONE place. 

 

[remi]

I can second the recommendations already given. For a long and slow cook, it is completely fine to use a full basket. Then you use foil +/- a drip pan on the lower grate to set up your indirect zone. Obviously make sure you are using dry and good quality charcoal- but I have used at least 5 different brands of lump, and this method works just the same with all of the brands I have tried.

With a full basket, light one small area of charcoal (grapefruit sized as Dennis says) and walk away. I usually have my vents wide open, and as soon as I see the dome temp shift above 100F, I set my vents to my desired temperature. Set and forget.... never mess with or check anything ever again. Always at temp for a low and slow within 60min. Like most frequent users, I have a good sense of where 225/250/275/300/350/400F are on my top-hat in terms of degrees of turn.

In more than 3yrs of very frequent use, I have only had the fire die once. On a very windy night the charcoal seemed to burn from where I lit out to the left-hand edge, and burnt down all the charcoal in that area, seemingly with no way to get back to the rest of the bed. Truly bizarre, and a one-off.

If you're still not sure- set up a call with Dennis, he will set you right. This should be a non-issue... in fact, the absolute ease of temp management is what sets the KK apart. Like many here, I've never used a controller/ fan/ bellows- and don't see any need to.

[Mcdddy]

Is there a chart or guide for what vent settings both top and bottom for each temp range? Also,I’m very curious to know —-> Does the amount of charcoal affect your vent settings? In other words if you use more charcoal your vent settings would be different ie less open than if you used less charcoal? Or are the vent settings independent of amount of charcoal used? Finally I do as c6bill does and use a cookie sheet with a wire cooking rack to elevate meet off the cookie sheet  - curious to know for those that use aluminum foil only are you wrapping the aluminum foil around the grate to hold in place ? Top grate or bottom grate?

This last cook (two pork butts) was my first cook without a temp controller just manual vent control. I do obsess a bit about my temps - wanting them to stay in a particular range - so when I see it rise substantially or decrease substantially what should I do if not change vent settings? Or check to make sure the coals are not burning in one spot?

maybe this is all part of the long process of learning the vent settings?

wondering about top vs bottom settings and which to prioritize - in other words is the top hat setting mostly kept the same setting for a larger range of temps than is the bottom vents?

the Fireboard temp controller and some others always drove me crazy because even though I’m clearly over temp it would continue to blow and blow too hard sporadically for the temp it was over so I would easily overshoot and stay over temp.The same would often happen with temps under my target range but would not blow aggressively enough and I’d stay under temp. I always thought it would learn over time much better but it never seemed to - and I always chalked it up to a poor algorithm. So I’d like to just stick to not using the temp controller and learn vent settings.

I think flame boss was somewhat better.

Thanks for everyone’s input.

Edited September 10 by Mcdddy

[remi]

57 minutes ago, Mcdddy said:

Is there a chart or guide for what vent settings both top and bottom for each temp range? Also,I’m very curious to know —-> Does the amount of charcoal affect your vent settings? In other words if you use more charcoal your vent settings would be different ie less open than if you used less charcoal? Or are the vent settings independent of amount of charcoal used? Finally I do as c6bill does and use a cookie sheet with a wire cooking rack to elevate meet off the cookie sheet  - curious to know for those that use aluminum foil only are you wrapping the aluminum foil around the grate to hold in place ? Top grate or bottom grate?

This last cook (two pork butts) was my first cook without a temp controller just manual vent control. I do obsess a bit about my temps - wanting them to stay in a particular range - so when I see it rise substantially or decrease substantially what should I do if not change vent settings? Or check to make sure the coals are not burning in one spot?

maybe this is all part of the long process of learning the vent settings?

wondering about top vs bottom settings and which to prioritize - in other words is the top hat setting mostly kept the same setting for a larger range of temps than is the bottom vents?

the Fireboard temp controller and some others always drove me crazy because even though I’m clearly over temp it would continue to blow and blow too hard sporadically for the temp it was over so I would easily overshoot and stay over temp.The same would often happen with temps under my target range but would not blow aggressively enough and I’d stay under temp. I always thought it would learn over time much better but it never seemed to - and I always chalked it up to a poor algorithm. So I’d like to just stick to not using the temp controller and learn vent settings.

I think flame boss was somewhat better.

Thanks for everyone’s input.

Can chime in to answer a few of your questions:

- vent settings are the same no matter how much charcoal is in there: the volume of charcoal burning at any moment depends only on airflow, which is what your vent settings do

- I use alfoil on the bottom grate (just wrapped on), and usually also have the drip tray on top of that, with my low and slow meat on the main grate

- Once the KK is up to temp, there should be no dramatic change in the temps unless you are frequently opening and closing the lid. As they say- if you're looking, you're not cooking

- You don't need to worry about whether the coals are burning in one spot. It is a low and slow indirect cook, the coals can burn wherever they like

- For most low and slow applications, it is only the top vent that matters- for a low and slow the bottom vent is barely cracked to the width of a pencil, 225 is top vent just off the seat, 250 or so perhaps another 1/8th turn (or less), 1/4 turn or just past that and you will be closer to 290-300... this is a rough guide, take an afternoon to play around slowly- make the change, observe and don't fiddle such that you can build confidence of where your temps are

- Don't obsess about the difference between dome and grate temp- on a 10hr low and slow cook these will equalise soon enough

 

Hope that all makes sense?

[C6Bill]

7 hours ago, Mcdddy said:

Finally I do as c6bill does and use a cookie sheet with a wire cooking rack to elevate meet off the cookie sheet

No no no, that is not what I do. I have a cookie sheet on the bottom level to support the foil when it gets full of drippings. I would highly recommend you stop doing that

[C6Bill]

I have a strong suspicion you are not heat soaking prior to cooking, watch the series of video's Dennis put out. It will give you a much better understanding of how to get a fire started properly and how to set the vents (exactly as Remi described) I will typically start my fire and set my vents and walk away for 30 to 60 minutes. Then tweak the vents a little if needed and then get ready to cook. So maybe 90 to 120 minutes before anything goes inside the KK.

Learn your vents before using a controller. The fireboard is a great device but you need to know your cooker first. And if you are using a controller of any kind make sure your bottom vents are closed, if not you will be chasing temps to a point of exhaustion. 

 

I started with a BGE then moved on to a Primo XL and then the KK, the KK is by far the easiest of them all, it truly can be set it and forget it. Do I use a fireboard, yes I do. I like using it as in New England our temps can swing 30 or more degrees overnight, and i like to sleep lol

 

Just remember, less is more, KISS, Keep It Simple Silly. You'll get there. 

[C6Bill]

I hope this helps, this is more or less how i start every cook.

 

Starting a Low and Slow

 

Of course start the fire before putting the pan and foil in lol

 

Edited September 10 by C6Bill

[Cheesehead_Griller]

So, this may go against the consensus of this thread but it has worked very well for me. In my early KK days I also struggled with consistent burning which resulted in wide temp swings. One problem was using too large of lump. I used to use the Fogo XL which is way too large in my opinion. I now exclusively use Fogo Premium (Black bag) which has smaller pieces of lump.  

As for starting the lump, I gave up on using a torch inside my KK. I tended to get a lot of popping of the lump which caused burning pieces to fly out of the KK. Furthermore, I didn't feel as if the lighting from the top with a torch was very effective. I dreaded taking the torch out, getting the propane tank, lighting multiple times, putting it away, et.c I stopped and switched to the method described below. 

I started using a chimney to light my lump. I fill the chimney with lump and place a few pieces of cherry or oak in with it. I use a fire starter under the chimney and walk away for 10-15 minutes. Once it's hot and there are flames coming out of the top, I pour it over the lump in my KK. I use a small metal tool to level the boring coals evenly across my basket. Depending on my cook, I adjust the vents differently. If it's going to be a hot cook, I open the vents and let the KK heat soak a bit. Then close them down. Be careful because the temp can run away quickly. If it's a low and slow cook, I set the vents where they need to be and let the KK do its thing. After about 20-30 minutes the KK is to the desired temp. Since I've switched to this method, my lump burs even from top to bottom and left to right. I can get 20+ hours no problem. I'm so confident in my method I no longer use my Fireboard and fan. (I hate wires so figuring out this new method has been such a stress relief.) 

Put it this way, the last time I did an overnight brisket cook I woke up and forgot I had a piece of meat on the KK. In the past, I would've slept with one eye open because the temps would swing so wildly.  I hope this helps! 

 

[tony b]

These guys have hit the high points of what you were asking.

We tell new folks, fill a cooler with your favorite adult beverage and grab a chair. Fill the charcoal basket and light a small spot. Just crack the top vent off the seat, open the bottom vent a 1/4 turn on the full dial side (temperature is not very dependent on bottom vent - just open to get enough airflow for whatever the top vent is set at.) Sit back and let it settle out, take notes of vent settings. Bump it just a bit and let it settle again. Take notes, open another adult beverage. Continue with this process until the KK gets to about 450F, which will cover you for most of your cooks. You might have to adjust the bottom vent a little once you get over 325F or so. Anything beyond 450F, like a pizza cook, you have an idea about how it responds to the vent settings. 

As others have said, DON'T CHASE THE TEMPERATURES FIDDLING WITH THE VENTS! You will find absolutely no difference in a cook +/- 50F of your "target" temperature. So don't sweat it if your temperature is off a bit. 

I used to use Fogo, but as noted, the pieces were very large (didn't burn well) and I got tired of breaking them up for cooks. Plus, it sparks when lighting. I'm in the Jealous Devil fan club now. My "go to" charcoal for most cooks. 

I use a MAPP torch and a FiAir blower to start my fires. Others have different techniques. No right or wrong. YMMV

[jdbower]

Quote

Others have different techniques. No right or wrong.

*dumps a gallon of gasoline over the charcoal and flips a lit cigarette butt in while walking away and putting on sunglasses*

OK, maybe SOME wrong ways to light a fire...

Edited September 10 by jdbower

[moebutt]

On 9/9/2024 at 11:44 PM, Mcdddy said:

Is there a chart or guide for what vent settings both top and bottom for each temp range? Also,I’m very curious to know —-> Does the amount of charcoal affect your vent settings? In other words if you use more charcoal your vent settings would be different ie less open than if you used less charcoal? Or are the vent settings independent of amount of charcoal used? Finally I do as c6bill does and use a cookie sheet with a wire cooking rack to elevate meet off the cookie sheet  - curious to know for those that use aluminum foil only are you wrapping the aluminum foil around the grate to hold in place ? Top grate or bottom grate?

This last cook (two pork butts) was my first cook without a temp controller just manual vent control. I do obsess a bit about my temps - wanting them to stay in a particular range - so when I see it rise substantially or decrease substantially what should I do if not change vent settings? Or check to make sure the coals are not burning in one spot?

maybe this is all part of the long process of learning the vent settings?

wondering about top vs bottom settings and which to prioritize - in other words is the top hat setting mostly kept the same setting for a larger range of temps than is the bottom vents?

the Fireboard temp controller and some others always drove me crazy because even though I’m clearly over temp it would continue to blow and blow too hard sporadically for the temp it was over so I would easily overshoot and stay over temp.The same would often happen with temps under my target range but would not blow aggressively enough and I’d stay under temp. I always thought it would learn over time much better but it never seemed to - and I always chalked it up to a poor algorithm. So I’d like to just stick to not using the temp controller and learn vent settings.

I think flame boss was somewhat better.

Thanks for everyone’s input.

Hi, what type of charcoal you're using?

I only ask because on my Ultimate 23 using the half-basket I can "easily" get 12-14 hours at a rock solid 250 degrees by burying a half split of wood under just the small amount of "CocoChar" shown in the pics below and there's always plenty still left over for use in the next cook, it's "super dense" and every piece is literally identical so it's "extremely" predictable once lit and it just burns steady for a "ridiculously" long time...I only use about 12-14 fresh pieces-per "long cook"-and a Grill Gun and a single buried Jealous Devil Boom Firestarter are my ignition source...I don't use any temp control devices either as a KK is so temp stable once heat soaked it simply doesn't need one IMO.👍😊

From my own trial and error, I now let my starter fire run "vents wide open" for a good 15-20 minutes to make sure I've got good charcoal ignition/flame before I start dialing things in and by the time I'm at 250 and fully heat soaked (usually about 45-60 min later) I always end up on the smallest "pinhole" intake setting with my top vent opened about "two and a half tiles wide" and the KK is always locked in for the duration with zero hiccups.😊

Hope some of this helps!👍😊

Edited September 11 by moebutt

[wrandyr]

As one of the klutzes using a FireBoard, I haven't experienced the kind of problems @Mcdddy describes. A few things to check:

• Do you have the open lid detect on or off? I find that it can be a little glitchy. On a low and slow, once the KK is well heat soaked, you don't really need it.
• If you are running the fan off the FireBoard battery, it will not run at 100% unless the FireBoard is freshly and fully charged. Even then it will start cutting the fan back before long. Plug the FireBoard into the AC charger, and it will then run at 100% as long as it needs to. Yep, another wire.
• Where is your pit probe? The closer it gets to your meat, the more the meat will cool the probe, resulting in the fan blowing more. If the probe has a line-of-sight path to burning fuel, it will pick up some radiant heat and the fan will blow less. It's just another thing to try to be consistent with.

I use a Looftlighter to get 3 or 4 chunks of lump with spots glowing, then close the lid and let the KK and FireBoard do their thing. It usually takes an hour to get to temp, although I wouldn't say things are heat soaked until another hour after that.

[Cheesehead_Griller]

19 minutes ago, wrandyr said:

As one of the klutzes using a FireBoard, I haven't experienced the kind of problems @Mcdddy describes. A few things to check:

• Do you have the open lid detect on or off? I find that it can be a little glitchy. On a low and slow, once the KK is well heat soaked, you don't really need it.
• If you are running the fan off the FireBoard battery, it will not run at 100% unless the FireBoard is freshly and fully charged. Even then it will start cutting the fan back before long. Plug the FireBoard into the AC charger, and it will then run at 100% as long as it needs to. Yep, another wire.
• Where is your pit probe? The closer it gets to your meat, the more the meat will cool the probe, resulting in the fan blowing more. If the probe has a line-of-sight path to burning fuel, it will pick up some radiant heat and the fan will blow less. It's just another thing to try to be consistent with.

I use a Looftlighter to get 3 or 4 chunks of lump with spots glowing, then close the lid and let the KK and FireBoard do their thing. It usually takes an hour to get to temp, although I wouldn't say things are heat soaked until another hour after that.

The goal is not to have to use a Fireboard  

[tony b]

I thought the goal was to cook tasty food? 😁

[Cheesehead_Griller]

1 hour ago, tony b said:

I thought the goal was to cook tasty food? 😁

It is. But, with as little stress as possible. @Mcdddy With a bit of patience and practice you will dial it in. Start with some easy pieces of meat like port butt/shoulders that you can't really mess up. After a few tweaks to your current process you will get it figured out. You may want to journal your cooks. I did and made pics of both top and bottom vent settings. My wife can grab the book and use the KK based on my notes  

 

Edited September 11 by Cheesehead_Griller

[wrandyr]

Actually, I like using the FireBoard, mainly for the logs I can get that show the interplay between all the temperatures. Today I used it without the fan just to see what effects the vent controls were having. Different stokes, I guess...

[jdbower]

It's also pretty nice to be able to check on temps without needing to go outside. But for me messing with gadgets just adds to the fun.