tony b Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 My Guru never overshoots on its own, only on windy days, like Wilbur says. Robert has similar good advice for keeping the fan damper on the Guru closed down. I'm running mine right now and the damper is 50% closed, but it's not very windy right now. I just got the new dual dial door and still learning what the top/bottom combinations are for my usual temps. I've gotten 375F dialed in (pun intended, poochie!), but haven't played around enough at lower temps to figure those out yet. Plus, I've got a leak on the left, rear side of the KK between the lid and bottom, so anything that I learn now will have to be re-learned when I get that corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckreef Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Plus, I've got a leak on the left, rear side of the KK between the lid and bottom, so anything that I learn now will have to be re-learned when I get that corrected. Just curious - what appears to be the problem causing the leak? Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony b Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Most likely compression set on the gasket. My KK has the single D-gasket against the lip. I've sent Dennis pics and vids of the leak. He's responded for me to call him, but just been too damned busy lately. Fix will likely be to add the second gasket. Plus, I need to tighten up the draft door a tiny bit more before embarking on the temp vs dial settings experiment. And NO, I won't be bending the rods on the door this time, just the rods inside the KK!! Got scolded by Dennis for that mistake and won't be making it again, Promise!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisLinkletter Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Got scolded by Dennis for that mistake and won't be making it again, Promise!!! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomatic Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Close your top vent a bit more, and maybe restrict the fan a bit. I just set mine and let it go, with never more that 5° overshoot. Robert That's with the top vent almost fully closed. I have the PartyQ and CyberQ Wifi, same behavior with each. On the CyberQ I usually set the fan to no more than 1/4 of the way open. Could be my cooker. I'll be interesting to experiment w/ that on the KK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeramicChef Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) Pale, I have the same cooker as you. The 32 is a Big Bad beast, hence it's name. Once you learn how to tame the beast, it's a wonderful cooker and very mild mannered. However, because of its mass, you have to stay ahead of your 32 all the time. If you overshoot on a 32, you're toast, literally. Also, you have a more complicated air control manifold at your disposal than most, so this can complicate matters, but rest assured your 32 wants you to be in charge. I always recommend that every new kamado owner take a weekend day and get to know their cooker. I generally recommend that you grab a case of your favorite beer, an ice chest, a bag of lump, Some great tunes, a good book, and get after it. I'm really OC, so I put my digital thermometer through a potato and put it on the main grate. This allows you an accurate reading of temps at grate level and this is what you're looking to determine. You're looking to determine the response curve of your 32 to changes in vents setting. You're also looking to determine vents setting for the most common cooking temps, i.e. 225, 250, 275, 300, 325, 350, 375, 400, 425, 450, and 450°. I'd also suggest that you forget aout the RHS dial at this point and exclusively use the LHS dial initially. Once you understand the response curve of your 32 you can get fancy and add in the RHS dial. Light a single spot in your lump pile. Once the fire is established, close the lid and from here on in, control your temps only with the vents. Open your bottom LHS dial completely and open the top hat vent about 2 turns. Take note of how your 32 responds temperature wise. I have found that my 32, TheBeast, responds to quicker to changes in vent setting than any kamado I've ever owned. I think this is because all airflow is directed through the lump pile unlike other kamados. I start shutting down my vents about 50-75° before my target temp, in this case 225°. Creep up on 225°. My vent settings for 225° are the bottom LHS cut down to less than 1/8th or less and the top hat something like 1/2 turn open. I also fine tune temps using my top hat vent as it is infinitely adjustable. Let your 32 settle in at each temp for a period of about 30 minutes. Use this time to pop the top and enjoy your 32. Make note of each vent setting on paper because these vent settings will note change (for the most part). After about 30 minutes, open your top hat vent about 1/8 of a turn or so. Leave the bottom vent alone. Within a specific temp range, i.e. 200-300° I control temps via the top hat vent. The same holds for 300-400° and 400°+. Take note of how temp rises with this change in the top hat vent setting. You're looking to hit 250° and my advice is to sneak up on it. As you know, if you overshoot, you're toast when it comes to getting temp back down. I've found that my 32 is quite responsive to changes in vent settings so like I said, sneak up on 250°. Again, let your 32 settle in at 250 for about 30 minutes. Pop the top and sit back, jam to some tunes, admire your 32, and enjoy life. Repeat the above for all the temperatures above. When you go from 275° to 300°, open the bottom vent some more (I find I like to calibrate using the notches cut in the LHS dial) and screw down on your top hat vent. I screw down the top vent completely so that I can keep track of the number of turns for each remp. Like I said, I like to control temps largely by using the top hat vent. This may seem like a lot of tedious work, but the dividends are enormous. Your control of the 32 insures impressive cooks. I've smoked cheeses during the winter in my 32. I've smoked jerky at about 175 and finished it in a dehydrator, I've done fish at about 190-200. Once you understand how your 32 responds to changes in vent settings, you can really get creative in a lot of areas. After you've spent the time to get your 32, open the vents wide, sear off some steaks, and enjoy a great meal! Oh, let's talk about the RHS dial on the air control manifold. I use the smaller holes to fine tune my temps. I only started doing this AFTER I had a really fine understanding of how TheBeast responded to changes in vent settings. Used in conjunction with the LHS, I've used the RHS to really zero in on temps. You can also use the RHS entirely by itself, but you've got to go through the exercise again for those numbers. As Dennis will tell you, the holes in the RHS dial are not necessarily cut to correlate with any specific temperature. I love how responsive TheBeast is to changes in vents settings. I hosently think that the KK is so efficient in its air flow, that you can largely control it across a very wide temperature range using only the top hat vent. The draft through the KK's lump pile is unlike anything I've ever seen before. This means the temperature change happens quicker than most people expect, especially if they have cooked on other kamados. Sorry to be so long winded, but the time put in doing the above yields huge dividends. KKs are a once in a lifetime purchase, so in the grand scheme of things, the time invested is really nothing. Besides, you've got a cooler full of beer, some great tunes, and a nice book to help you through the exercise! Enjoy! Edited August 22, 2015 by CeramicChef 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 reviving this one for a question for CC I have reviewed the chart that was posted and it makes a lot of sense and provides a rough guide to get going. I just would like a little more clarification on the dual vent bottom and how the left and the right dials work. From what I read from you're above post CC the left dial is the main setting and the right dial is for small temp changes?? Why would you use the right dial instead of the upper vent setting for fine tuning?? or does the top vent make drastic changes??? I am looking for some better understanding of the dual vents as both my 23 and 32 come with this factory installed thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony b Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Bosco, I upgraded to the dual door, so I have the experience of using both designs. To be totally honest, the dual dial door was only a marginal improvement over the single dial door - IMHO, as I controlled temps just fine on the older design. As Dennis has preached to us many times, it's really the upper vent hat that controls the temps; you just have to provide enough air flow from the bottom so the fire doesn't go out. I do like the dual dial door over the single, as I can start out with the left dial wide open, along with the top hat wide open, to get the coals going good, then can close down on both top and bottom vents to get where I want for the final temps. I haven't done any very low cooks yet, where one might use the smallest couple of holes on the right dial, but I have used the largest 3 holes a lot for most of my under 450F cooks. For serious high temps (500F+), I've stopped pulling the lower vent door out and just opened the left and right dials all the way and pulled the guru port plug out. Gets the job done and I don't have to fret loosening the seal around the vent door frame over time from sliding the door in and out. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 As I mentioned before, for low and slow cooks I tend to throttle down the bottom vent as much as possible. Here’s a picture of the lower vent during a low and slow. I was really taking this picture to show the liquid running out the bottom because that’s how well a KK grill traps moisture during a cook, so it’s not the best angle to show how I have the vent set. But you should be able to appreciate that the vent is barely cracked open. If I had the dual dial vent controls, this is how I would figure out what to do for low and slows. Start the charcoal fire, and make sure it’s established. Then I’d set the dual dials so that the left side was shut completely, and the right side was on the smallest hole, and crack the top vent barely open. By adjusting the top vent, I would figure out where I needed to put it for 200ºF, 225ºF, 250ºF, and so on. File that information away for future reference. I’ve had little problem controlling temps with the single vent, but the dual dial vent controls offer the benefit of repeatability when it comes to restricted air flow at the bottom. The way I have my vent set for low and slow cooks, I try to set it cracked slightly open in a consistent manner, but small variations could easily allow twice the amount of air through. The holes on the right side of the dual dial vent controls allow setting the lower vent for low air flow in a very repeatable manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I can't believe how little air flow in can work??? That is incredible to be honest!!! I think I may treat the left side dial as the gas peddle so grilling and high heat, and the right side dial for low and slow and fine tuning only. I need to get use to the idea that the top vent plays a far greater roll with a KK than it does with a conventional kamado I will play with it too, and memorize locations of dials for my standard temps that I cook at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5698k Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I've found the bottom vent settings to be only relative. Barely cracked for lo/slo, and so on. The top vent is truly the thermostat, which keeps me from having to bend over, possibly spilling my beer. Like Wilbur, I often have a puddle of water on the floor below my grill, which shows how little air flow is needed to maintain temps. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I can't believe how little air flow in can work??? That is incredible to be honest!!! I think I may treat the left side dial as the gas peddle so grilling and high heat, and the right side dial for low and slow and fine tuning only. That’s exactly what I would do. For high heat cooks, I have the bottom dial fully open, which is the same amount of area as the left dial on the dual dial vent fully open. And I can consistently get the dome thermometer up to 600ºF in 15 minutes or less from lighting the fire. I think you’re going to be surprised as to how little air flow is needed to maintain a low and slow cook in a KK grill. I haven’t used a conventional kamado, but judging from John Setzler’s KJ videos, the vent settings on his low and slow cooks are letting significantly more air through a KJ grill than what I have going on with Smaug at the same temperature. More air going through the grill means more moisture being lost out the top vent, which is where I think KK grills have a big performance advantage over the conventional kamado brands. After all, the reason to use a kamado instead of a gas grill is the moisture issue, according to these guys. So it stands to reason that the more efficient you can make your kamado in retaining the moisture and heat, the better your results will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I'm getting really excited to get going!!! I have been reading up like crazy over the past few days. I just can't wait to get going and learn these new grills!!! It is so crazy, that I have yet to read a complaint about KK. Hogs fan had a small issue, but that is the only one that I have seen. I just love the fact knowing that I will have worry free grills!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 It is so crazy, that I have yet to read a complaint about KK. Hogs fan had a small issue, but that is the only one that I have seen. I just love the fact knowing that I will have worry free grills!!! Try this, just for fun. Go to the search box at the top of this forum, and do a search for “fireboxâ€. You’ll get nine pages of results, going back to 2006. That’s nine years without a single mention of a firebox crack in a KK grill that I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeramicChef Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) Hi bosceaux - to my mind, the "new" air control manifold gives yet another means of controlling air flow in the KK. Is it needed? Well, not exactly. Is it a nice luxury to have? You bet! Does it give really better air flow control than the usual vent? Well, it depends. (I sound like a consultant, right? ) Remember, because of the really deep thought that Dennis put into the design of the KK Top Hat vent, it is infinitely adjustable and it stays in place! IF you open the lid, you don't have to readjust your top vent. What I use the right hand side of the dual dial air flow manifold for is fine tuning. Look, I can dial in temps using the left hand side and the top hat vent just from memory at this point. I can dial in 220 - 240 without a problem. But the right hand dial allows me to be more precise and dial in 225F without a problem. Yeah, its a small deal, but to my my engineering and accounting mind, if I want 225 or 227 or 352, I can get it spot on. To me its a challenge and I like doing it. I like a challenge and sometimes it just F with things to see what I can get my KKs to do. I, like you, also have a bit of an OCD side, hence the 352! As has been pointed out, the KK is a more efficient air handling device that anything you've seen. That is a real advantage. Yes, your KJ can get to 225, but you'll find that that the KK gets there with less airflow through the system due to several factors, chief among them is the KK design forcing all air through the lump pile. This means lower air flow through your kamado. That in turn results in a juicer, more moist cook, ceteris paribus. But there is another upside to lower airflow through the KK. Lower airflow means a longer residence time of the produced smoke in the KK. That means that, again, ceteris paribus, your cook will have a smokier flavor (and as you know, some people say that kamados don't yield really smokey tasting BBQ) because the smoke has longer to condense on the cook. bosceaux, there really infinite possibilities with the KK. You can control airflow without a lot of effort via the left dial and the top vent and never once touch the right side dial. You can use the right dial exclusively on low-n-slow cooks and never open the left dial. I've used the smallest aperture on the right hand dial and cranked down on the top vent and used that combination for cold making. The possibilities are limited only by your imagination. And that is the genius of the whole airflow system Dennis has developed. You'll learn what works for you. I'm absolutely certain that other KKers with the dual dial air control manifold use their KKs differently than do I. And that's what makes the KK experience so wonderful. The KK adapts to you. You don't have to adapt to the KK. Finally since that post above, I've kind of had a KK epiphany. The KK has incredible air flow capabilities. I kind of explain that epiphany in my Open Letter To Dennis post earlier this week. To my feeble mind it is in the air flow capabilities that the KK rises well above every other kamado. So, to conclude, spend time with your KKs. Change settings and watch what happens. Have fun. Never do anything the same way until you figure out what is optimal for you. And don't be held down by what you've done in the past. Sure, it'll work with the KK and its a good place to start, but left your imagination run wild and experiment. I can't see what you have to say when you get your KKs in the back yard and yo've had a cooks under your belt! Have fun! Edited November 5, 2015 by CeramicChef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony b Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Yeah, what Ken said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckreef Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 I'm getting really excited to get going!!! I have been reading up like crazy over the past few days. I just can't wait to get going and learn these new grills!!! It is so crazy, that I have yet to read a complaint about KK. Hogs fan had a small issue, but that is the only one that I have seen. I just love the fact knowing that I will have worry free grills!!! Something interesting you will notice. The firebox in a KK is two separate pieces. A firebox "bowl" cut vertically into two halves NOT fire ring/firebox cut horizontally. Both the inside of the main body and the firebox pieces are tapered. The firebox pieces sit down in the main body with no gap between them and the main body. Although you could remove them there is never a need to and it is recommended that you never remove or adjust the firebox pieces in anyway. Hopefully I explained that adequately. Now lets make up a hypothetical situation (I've never read a report about this so let's just pretend). Let's pretend those 2 firebox pieces cracked into 4 pieces. How would that effect the KK integrity or your cooking ability in general? It wouldn't have any effect. None whatsoever. The pieces would still sit down there in place. You would still never remove them. Even if the KK had a 4 piece firebox it would still grill on forever without effecting anything. From what I have researched and what I can tell from design observations is that the whole idea of a cracked firebox is a non issues and really is something you will never have to deal with. The firebox design element is one of the features that truly set the KK far above all other ceramic Kamados on the market. Even the ones with CI fireboxs (Academy Sports kamado and possibly KJ in the future.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 One other thing to note in the design of the KK firebox is that because of how it’s set up, any air coming into the lower vent only has one way to go: through the charcoal fire. In other kamados, the air could go through the charcoal, but it could also go around the firebox, which means that it’s not heated to the same degree (no pun intended ). That’s going to lead to a lower temperature inside the grill, and another reason why you see increased efficiency and the ability to hold a temperature with very little airflow through a KK grill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckreef Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) And since it's a lump basket (instead of a plate with holes) and all the air is going up through the basket the issue of clogging with ash becomes non existent. With the other ceramic firebox designs and a plate with holes in the bottom (instead of a grate) the holes start to clog with ash. The hot air going out the top vent still draws air into the bottom vent. When the path of least resistance is no longer the firebox the air will just bypass the firebox entirely. (or some of the incoming air anyway) When this happens people start having problems maintaining a consistent temp through out a long cook and can also have issues with obtaining a high heat temp. This is partially solved in other ceramic Kamados by users purchasing a Kick Ash Basket. In reality those others are just a poor design. Why those companies don't immediately switch to a lump grate instead of a plate with holes (to solve part of the problem) has always puzzled me as that would be a cheap and easy solution to implement. Edited November 6, 2015 by ckreef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 awesome info guys!! Thanks I am really feeling comfortable with the learning cover with these new grills!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
