Thermoworks Billows

[jonj]

I just measured my Guru port and it is 31mm in diameter.

[ckreef]

3 hours ago, jonj said:

I just measured my Guru port and it is 31mm in diameter.

Awesome. If I'm understanding all the pictures correctly it should fit without any adapter. 

 

 

[Alohapiggy]

According to Smart Fire no adapter is needed  for the newer KK’s with the fan port. The fan should work the existing fan port. 

[ThreeDJ16]

Curious about this topic.  So the BBQ guru fans are just 12v fans.  Why couldn't you just buy one of the guru fans and find a matching connector to solder in place and use on the device you have?  I'm betting most of these controllers operate off 12v since that's the most common voltage for these little fans.

I have a the Guru ProCom 4, a DigiQ 2 and the original CyberQ (which was a really poor attempt).  Also a friend loaned me a Stoker for a while which was really nice, but bulky.  The Procom is by far my favorite (unfortunately no longer made), but was intrigued by the newer units which offer cell phone apps and trending on the computer via wifi.

Oh yeah, I also have one homemade controller made from an arduino.  It was a Github project someone started.  They switched to using an old router later as a BBQ controller, since most routers are pretty powerful processors and a lot run Linux.  Some pretty cool projects out there if you're into DIY.  Of course some pretty cool devices out there premade too.

[ThreeDJ16]

Crap, forgot to turn on notifications....argh.  Is that a default somewhere in settings to always notify of replies?  Man, I'm way behind the times on forums it's been so long...LOL.

Aha...found it in the profile settings.  As I always forget to request reply notifications.

Edited August 30, 2019 by ThreeDJ16

[ThreeDJ16]

LOL...there is no way that Thermoworks fan is 46 CFM.  The largest Guru fan, if my memory serves, is 12 CFM.  These little 12v fans just don't move that much air.

Anyway, here is the fan I was talking about.  https://www.bbqguru.com/storenav?CategoryId=2&ProductId=54

You could easily make a jack adapter to go from the guru's plug (can't remember off the top of my head, but it was like a 2-3ish mm two pole barrel jack) to the USB type the Thermoworks fan connector accepts.

Or get lucky and find one already made like this one.

[Alphonse]

1 hour ago, ThreeDJ16 said:

LOL...there is no way that Thermoworks fan is 46 CFM.  The largest Guru fan, if my memory serves, is 12 CFM.  These little 12v fans just don't move that much air.

Anyway, here is the fan I was talking about.  https://www.bbqguru.com/storenav?CategoryId=2&ProductId=54

You could easily make a jack adapter to go from the guru's plug (can't remember off the top of my head, but it was like a 2-3ish mm two pole barrel jack) to the USB type the Thermoworks fan connector accepts.

Or get lucky and find one already made like this one.

Could not agree with you more on the capacity of the Billows fan.  I tested it for current draw recently and with that data to compared to other similar fans, it is likely the Billows will pump in the 15 to 18 CFM range.  Their claim of 46 CFM is comical at best.  

BTW, the Billows uses a male/male USB cord.  There is a female USB socket on the fan itself.

My son has a Signals/Billows system and the fan is 12V on/off in its operation. 

It is interesting that ThermoWorks didn't use a barrel connector for the fan like most.  Is ThermoWorks struggling to find ways to differentiate their fan from the others?   I suspect that is the case.  They are taking a risk by overstating the fan capacity by 2.5 times.  Their credibility is now questionable.   

[ThreeDJ16]

1 hour ago, Alphonse said:

BTW, the Billows uses a male/male USB cord.  There is a female USB socket on the fan itself. 

I'm sure you can find the right connector, if not, still easy to make one.  Would be simple to swap and use the Guru fan with it.

And I agree about being questionable.  I read through their Q&A section where people had some valid points...LOL...their answers were we are working on improvements.  It doesn't even have lid open detection, which is simple.  I built it into my ProCom before there was a firmware update to add it in later.  It's a great thing to have, especially if you need more than 10 seconds to open the lid and do something...LOL.

In my opinion, BBQ Guru is still the best on the market.  They were the first (and only for years) along with Stoker.  But BBQ Guru's parent company is ThermoOmegaTech who makes industrial temp control equipment.  So they know what they're doing and have been doing it for a long time.  It just took them a bit to get the newer tech features, like actual wifi connectability (original had no endpoint built in), web server and cell phone apps working right.  They used to send me all their new equipment to test out and review as I admined their forum back in the day.  But their forum petered out after Fred, the owner, died.  So haven't tried any of their newer stuff.

Edited August 30, 2019 by ThreeDJ16

[Basher]

Here is the link to previous discussions on Smartfire v guru.

I'm going to try Smartfire and will provide feedback once it's tested.

[Alphonse]

10 hours ago, ThreeDJ16 said:

I'm sure you can find the right connector, if not, still easy to make one.  Would be simple to swap and use the Guru fan with it.

And I agree about being questionable.  I read through their Q&A section where people had some valid points...LOL...their answers were we are working on improvements.  It doesn't even have lid open detection, which is simple.  I built it into my ProCom before there was a firmware update to add it in later.  It's a great thing to have, especially if you need more than 10 seconds to open the lid and do something...LOL.

In my opinion, BBQ Guru is still the best on the market.  They were the first (and only for years) along with Stoker.  But BBQ Guru's parent company is ThermoOmegaTech who makes industrial temp control equipment.  So they know what they're doing and have been doing it for a long time.  It just took them a bit to get the newer tech features, like actual wifi connectability (original had no endpoint built in), web server and cell phone apps working right.  They used to send me all their new equipment to test out and review as I admined their forum back in the day.  But their forum petered out after Fred, the owner, died.  So haven't tried any of their newer stuff.

OK, I will be hunting the connector.  I have a Billows fan I bought for testing and may use it on my other systems.   Otherwise I will give it to my son since he has an application that may require two fans.

Not to derail thread, but have you looked into the FireBoard system?   It appears to work quite well and it uses a barrel connector for the fan power feed.  They seem to be happy for you to use whatever fan you'd like.   The fan they sell is a repackaged Auber Instruments fan and the blower itself is a Delta Electronics.  Yes, I have tested it as well and their claim of 20 cfm appears to be plausible.  The FireBoard system works on cloud based software and/or Bluetooth app.  

[ThreeDJ16]

2 hours ago, Alphonse said:

OK, I will be hunting the connector.  I have a Billows fan I bought for testing and may use it on my other systems.   Otherwise I will give it to my son since he has an application that may require two fans.

Not to derail thread, but have you looked into the FireBoard system?   It appears to work quite well and it uses a barrel connector for the fan power feed.  They seem to be happy for you to use whatever fan you'd like.   The fan they sell is a repackaged Auber Instruments fan and the blower itself is a Delta Electronics.  Yes, I have tested it as well and their claim of 20 cfm appears to be plausible.  The FireBoard system works on cloud based software and/or Bluetooth app.  

Isn't the connection at the controller a female micro USB?  If so, the connector I linked above would work (provided we match it to the right barrel connector).  I can get a measurement on the Guru barrel plug if you are seriously interested.

As for the Fireboard fan, all I see on their website are square box fan and unless I'm missing something, no round adapter to plug into the KK.  One thing I'm not fond of is that they are using a thermistor for their temp measurements.  Thermocouples are usually more accurate, more linear and cover a wider temp range.  Most industrial devices use Thermocouple or RTDs where consumer level products use thermistors.  BBQ Guru controllers use thermocouples and they can also be calibrated to ensure accuracy.

Read over the review link, and technically the Stoker (while no longer manufactured) was the first to offer cloud / web server technology.  Also, all of the Guru devices I've used,  you can adjust the proportional parameters of the PID control.  FYI, having a fan damper door is basically having control over the damping force.  But I can keep my Procom 4 within 1 degree provided I don't open it (not that this kind of accuracy is even needed, but it will maintain).  Naturally you will set it off balance opening, but their lid open feature detects the inrush of cool air and shuts down the fan for a set time before starting the PID back up.  My ProCom 4 is what I did the 85 hr test at 225 degrees with Dennis' CEL charcoal.

The Smartfire looks like a bad idea, plastic and all in one case and zero weather protection with a lot of open holes.  Doesn't look like it would be easy to protect either.

I've been out of the controller market for many years, so no idea of everything that is currently available, nor have any new equipment to compare it too.  But I've been in the industrial electrical and instrument world for 30 plus years.  So a lot of what I am seeing (just a quick google search) seems to be overpriced crap to me, and maybe toss in a few fancy features to hook people.  But I'm more concerned with the equipments ability to do it's basic function, which is control my KK accurately and last the test of time.  All of my Guru devices are all over 10 years old now, but I used the Procom4 on July 4th (working perfectly) and about to use it this weekend for ribs.  That was after sitting up in a box for 5 or so years...LOL.  I plugged in the others and they seem to be fine also.

Forgot to mention that I don't see any need for a high CFM fan for a smoker controller.  Usually my 12 CFM fan damper is choked half way.  The higher the airflow into your smoker, the more chance of overshoot.  PWM would be ideal with a door flap that prevents natural convection from pulling in air (Stoker had a small door flap which worked pretty well).  But simply pulsing a 6-12 CFM fan works pretty well if it has a built in damper (since this adjusts the air flow rate which should be determined by the size of your smoker).  A high CFM rate may bring it up to temp faster, but more chance of overshoot.  Get a hair dryer if you want to start it faster or for high temps...LOL.

To be honest, for the prices of some of these controller packages, you could buy an actual industrial controller....LOL.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by ThreeDJ16

[Tyrus]

I was just wondering ThreeDJ16 from an old post dated in 2009 you were running a DigiQ with a 10cfm blower and if it's still working for you OR has it passed on. The post was involved with a 25cfm vs a 10cfm. Like to know how long they stick around for quality interest. TY

[ThreeDJ16]

38 minutes ago, Tyrus said:

I was just wondering ThreeDJ16 from an old post dated in 2009 you were running a DigiQ with a 10cfm blower and if it's still working for you OR has it passed on. The post was involved with a 25cfm vs a 10cfm. Like to know how long they stick around for quality interest. TY

Mine is obviously an older model, but all three units are still functioning when I plugged them in back in July.  I can try out my DigiQ this weekend on my ribs instead of the Procom to ensure full functionality.  Might even play with the old CyberQ and see if they have new firmware to increase it's features too.

Interesting, so maybe one of my fans is 25cfm and the other is 10cfm.  Knew I had two different models, but couldn't remember the flows of them (as i thought they were 6 and 12 cfm...oh well, probably explains why i choke it back so much if I'm using the 25cfm one).  The mind is a terrible thing...LOL.

Edited August 30, 2019 by ThreeDJ16

[Tyrus]

I'm glad your feeling better and to see your posts are a one from experience. At the time you felt something in comparison was a study,,, today, looking back it may be a focal point. History my friend is made in so many different ways, so an understanding of instruments used yesterday may be of help for one today. Pieces evolve and you may a have few on the shelf, forgotten, or looking for life again when called for. Maybe not....could be stretching the idea, but you did write the book as others..so rest easy and I look forward to your posts .

Edited August 31, 2019 by Tyrus

[Alphonse]

23 hours ago, ThreeDJ16 said:

. . . . . . It doesn't even have lid open detection, which is simple.  . . . . .

This is fact.

My son confirmed his Signals/Billows system runs away when you open the lid!    I am blown away and quite disappointed by that.  That is a show stopper in my opinion.   Why ThermoWorks would release such a system for sale is beyond me.  

My old and crusty BBQ Guru has open lid detection in it!  

[TomRaz]

Well I use a Flame Boss 500 on my 23KK and it works great, it has straight jacks so the probes pass through the hole just fine and they even provided me the adapter that fits into the KK guru port and fits perfect

 

[ThreeDJ16]

 

On 8/30/2019 at 2:00 PM, Tyrus said:

I was just wondering ThreeDJ16 from an old post dated in 2009 you were running a DigiQ with a 10cfm blower and if it's still working for you OR has it passed on. The post was involved with a 25cfm vs a 10cfm. Like to know how long they stick around for quality interest. TY

On 8/30/2019 at 2:38 PM, ThreeDJ16 said:

Mine is obviously an older model, but all three units are still functioning when I plugged them in back in July.  I can try out my DigiQ this weekend on my ribs instead of the Procom to ensure full functionality.  Might even play with the old CyberQ and see if they have new firmware to increase it's features too.

Interesting, so maybe one of my fans is 25cfm and the other is 10cfm.  Knew I had two different models, but couldn't remember the flows of them (as i thought they were 6 and 12 cfm...oh well, probably explains why i choke it back so much if I'm using the 25cfm one).  The mind is a terrible thing...LOL.

Ok, I dug out the boxes with my DigiQ and CyberQ again and only found a 10 CFM fan and looked at my Procom box and it only has a 10 CFM fan.  So went back and found the article and now it rings a bell as to why I stated earlier that you don't need more than 10-12 CFM for at least the 23" KK.   Thought I had 12 CFM, but not like my memory is very good, lol, so I have two 10 CFM fans.  I'm currently finding that depending on how you are cooking, 1/2 damper closed or more after it gets close to setpoint works even tighter.   Sure more higher CFM will work if you have a damper door, but my luck I'd forget....LOL.  I'll never own another type grill, so just see no need for higher flow and to me it's more of a PITA to pull out and setup to blow on a high temp grill when I'm already using a torch.

Also, smoking ribs tonight using the DigiQ and it's working like a champ.  Bench tested the CyberQ, same deal. 

They've has been put away in a box for quite a long while, as even before all my back issues, my Procom was always the favorite.  So actually being used for over a decade, I can only attest to the Procom's quality (even with a several year hiatus), it still got used a ton.  The other two are freakn brand new in the box basically, as I kept them packaged in the cloth bag and bubble wrap, only used one set of temp probes between them.  Doubt they will ever really see much action long as my Procom is alive...LOL.  Honestly the CyberQ might as well be a stand alone like the DigiQ, with the exception of dual pits and probes, it has no real "internet" capabilities as you have to connect it via USB to a computer to use it that way.  The new CyberQ looks like they wised up and figured out having Wifi and a webserver, which Stocker had way back then.  I think he used RTD probes if I'm not mistaken.  If it wasn't for his box being huge, I think he probably had one of the best Que controllers on the market and I've still yet to see one better.  It had the ability for tons of probes and someone developed a cell phone app for the built in webserver.  I think he release a second version that was much better, as the first required an end point connection for wifi or ethernet cable.  Shame he quit making them

[ThreeDJ16]

Holding within 1 degree of 225 nicely.  And nope, still haven't broke out the weedeater...LOL.

FYI, it's not missing an led segment, it strobes the numbers. Took me several shots just to get that many segments to show up...LOL.

 

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by ThreeDJ16

[myself888]

I bought the Smartfire for my husband's birthday gift a couple weeks ago. Everything works great! Instead of punching out the ceramic plug in the front, he drilled a 1" keyhole in the rear vent plate. Not sure if everyone has a rear vent. When we bought our KK, we purchased it with the gas burner (never used), so it has a rear vent. Below is a link to the piece of piping he used. He added a cap for when he is not using the Smartfire. He and my son ran a test cook (no meat, just a basket of coals) and it performed well, so the next day we went on a hike all day while cooking pork shoulder. It was nice to be able to check the app throughout the day to see that things were stable and the meat was making steady progress.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MXXYMSW/?coliid=I2B0B3Z6GW3PB1&colid=W2YAI4BADZ8B&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

[helliger]

On 8/26/2019 at 4:01 PM, MacKenzie said:

That does seem like a good option.  I've had to send my whole unit back to Thermoworks. The fan would run but never shut off. Waiting to see what they say, not worried as they are a very good company and I'm sure they will rectify the situation. Their suggestion would keep the burn in the middle of the KK where as when you in from the side the burn tends to stay on the right hand side and that is also where you put the thermometer cables. When I get my unit back I think I'll try this idea out Alohapiggy. Thanks for the tip. 

 

I had the exact same thing happen. Just got one and they are sending a new Signals today although I suspect it has nothing with the hardware and is software related. It seems that when you "Save and start a new graph" while a cook is going on all heck can break loose. The app crashed, I lost connection and then the actual Signals unit was frozen. Temp was frozen a bit lower than the target temp so the fan was going non-stop and the unit wasn't registering the actual temp since it was frozen. That's kind of scary if you are away and can't fix the problem.

I ended up unplugging the fan.  Unplugging everything and eventually I could get the unit to turn off by holding the power button for a LONG time.

Hope they work out the software kinks though because the unit holds temp VERY well. It's not a variable fan but when it's close to temp it turns of an on repeatedly like a bellows. Seems to work really well.

Doesn't have a lot of bells and whistle's and the way the graph part is done is rather wonky. It should have a global option to start or end cook. Instead you have to go to each graph and choose to save and create new graph. It automatically starts a new one after 24 hours or so. I'm assuming that will get addressed.

Also seems to be issues with the wifi/bluetooth setup. If wifi goes out bluetooth is supposed to take over. I have a really strong wifi setup but it went out a few different time and bluetooth wasn't found either (even though I was standing right next to it). Trying a few things brings it back. i.e. restarting Signals, logging in and out of the app etc. etc..

 

I know it sounds like I'm dogging it but I think when they get these software issues worked out in the app, probably their cloud setup and firmware updates it'll be a real winner. I imagine the open lid detection will be added soon as well. That's not a hard algorithm to program. I just unplug the Billows if I have to have the lid up for more than 10 seconds or so (annoying but not a big deal) The thing that scares me though is the fan running and not turning off. If that happens with the new unit they send I'll have to return it. Being away from the house, not being able to connect and wondering if the fan is going non-stop is kind of scary. Could turn that thing into a furnace.