Confusion regarding rotisserie for 23" Ultimate

[skyros]

Can someone please explain to me the why there are three options when trying to select a rotisserie for a 23" Ultimate. 

1) It is unclear to me about the actual difference between the 23" Ultimate 5/16" SS Rotisserie Spit (Square) vs. 23" Ultimate 5/16" SS Rotisserie Spit (Hex). Which part is Hex and what part is Square? Why does it matter?

You state: ****PLEASE CONFIRM YOUR RIGHT SIDE DRIVE SOCKET INSIDE THE GRILL IS HEX NOT SQUARE - THE DRIVE SIDE OF THIS SPITROD IS HEXAGON**** for BOTH models. 

What to you do if you have a KK with a square drive?

2) A Rotisserie cradle vs. a Rotisserie Spit? I'm not Rotisserie expert, but some web site copy about the actual differences or features and benefits would be helpful to the consumer here. I'm not sure which one to buy. Or what am I missing out on if I buy the wrong one? 

Thanks, Bill
 

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[Alohapiggy]

I’m just as confused as u with the hex and square. Dennis explained to me that the cradle is for bigger cuts of meat and u don’t have to tie meats up with the cradle as would have to with the spit.  Dennis also said one draw back with cradle is that’s it’s a little difficult to clean.  

[DennisLinkletter]

2 hours ago, skyros said:

Can someone please explain to me the why there are three options when trying to select a rotisserie for a 23" Ultimate. 

1) It is unclear to me about the actual difference between the 23" Ultimate 5/16" SS Rotisserie Spit (Square) vs. 23" Ultimate 5/16" SS Rotisserie Spit (Hex). Which part is Hex and what part is Square? Why does it matter?

You state: ****PLEASE CONFIRM YOUR RIGHT SIDE DRIVE SOCKET INSIDE THE GRILL IS HEX NOT SQUARE - THE DRIVE SIDE OF THIS SPITROD IS HEXAGON**** for BOTH models. 

What to you do if you have a KK with a square drive?

2) A Rotisserie cradle vs. a Rotisserie Spit? I'm not Rotisserie expert, but some web site copy about the actual differences or features and benefits would be helpful to the consumer here. I'm not sure which one to buy. Or what am I missing out on if I buy the wrong one? 

Thanks, Bill

Originally all KK's had square drive sockets and shafts.  There are three sockets in the no-airflow KK roti drivetrain. One in the motor, one outside the grill and one inside the grill. 
Square sockets have a bit of play.. this play X 3 created a situation where the roti cradle would fall forward an inch or two at some point in the rotation.   HEX sockets have much less play, so we changed the outside and inside sockets to hex and the corresponding shafts.  The motor is still square.. the motor shaft is square at the motor side and hex where it goes into the KK.

Can't argue with success, the roti has some movement but it's usually from the motor not play in the drivetrain sockets.  We still supply parts and accessories for every KK ever built. 

 

[skyros]

Not sure what you mean by (3) sockets. Do you mean there are a TOTAL of three contact points at which the Rotisserie touches the BBQ? Two points (inside, left spring-plate and right-side inner drive?) and ONE point on the outside where the actual powered motor shaft inserts?

Also, if square drives have more play why do they make the ONEGrill motor you sell with a square drive? Seems like a hex drive on the motor would have less play, no? Also, what if your KK has a square drive and you buy the roti kit, will it fall forward 1-2 inches on its rotation? Do you recommend the cradle or spit? Sorry for all the questions, but it is a bit of a mystery...

[tekobo]

Hey there @skyros.  Chill. We love Dennis for his genius and his foibles.  The KK website has come on leaps and bounds but it doesn't tell you everything. It is still a personal service and there are things that are not always as clear as they could or should be.  You come to the forum or you talk to Dennis or you get frustrated.  I don't want you to be frustrated.

6 hours ago, skyros said:

Not sure what you mean by (3) sockets. Do you mean there are a TOTAL of three contact points at which the Rotisserie touches the BBQ? Two points (inside, left spring-plate and right-side inner drive?) and ONE point on the outside where the actual powered motor shaft inserts?

Dennis' explanation above actually covers this well.  You missed the socket in the motor when you were counting up the three sockets.

I don't know what other motors are on the market but my guess is that what has happened is that the motors come with square sockets and Dennis can't control that. He has changed the two sockets that he can control to hex - the ones on the outside and inside of the grill. 

I have a spit rotisserie and that suits me fine.  A cradle seems more constrained and, as @Alohapiggy said, there is more stuff to clean.  

Good luck with your choice.  Come back if you need advice with how to fit the rotisserie or give @DennisLinkletter a prod to ship the roti kit with some instructions!

[skyros]

Thanks Sr. Member. for the note.  I was just asking for clarification in a neutral manner. I think you misread my tone in the message.  Frankly, it's a bit of a complicated device if you really think about it. Also, I also was inquiring if there was a way to improve the design by making the motor a hex drive. I'm not an engineer, but was just wondering since we were discussing it. I'll reach out to the OneGrill folks to ask them about that idea and if makes any sense in reducing any slippage. Yes, good call on the cleaning of the cradle. I suppose the cradle could be good for cooking fillets of fish or smaller pieces of meat. I know I hate opening the grill to flip meat once the temp is stable. And the Spit is not limited to size. Always good during Thanksgiving Turkey Day here in the States. 

[Tucker]

My 2 cents regarding the cradle versus spit topic.

Spit.

I own a cradle for the 23" and 19.5"; i hate them, too many parts to clean, difficult to manage. I stopped using the roti for that one reason.

[MacKenzie]

I am on the other side of the fence, in my experience I find it easier to clean than I expected. It even fits in my dishwasher if I want to go that route. Usually I do it in the kitchen sink, mine is for the 22 it might be different if my cradle was for a bigger KK.

Mind you I do like the spit too, it just depends upon what I am cooking.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by MacKenzie

[Basher]

I love my spit roti Skyros.
A call to Dennis to confirm the age of your KK and you will be guided to the right components.
Punch on with the roti, I’m sure you won’t regret it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tony b]

I have just about every option for the rotisserie- basket, cradle, spit/tines and Octoforks. I use them all, except for the Octoforks, which I dislike for multiple reasons. 

As far as cleaning any of them, I do an overnight soak in Powdered Brewers Wash (PBW). Most everything just rinses off and what doesn't rinse off, wipes off easily with a damp sponge or paper towel. Don't let cleaning be a major factor in your decision making. Get what you think will best suit your cooking plans. 

[MacKenzie]

What Tony said except I do like the Octoforks.

 

[bgrant3406]

To paraphrase Dennis, his original design used square drive sockets both inside and out, there was an issue where the roti would reach a point in the spin and roll forward an inch or so. To Dennis, this was unacceptable and he redesigned it with hex drives on the inside but kept the outside square so that one grill motors could be used.

which one do you need? Call Dennis, he will quickly tell you what you need, or you can look inside your grill...calling Dennis will be more fun and rewarding!

The difference between the spit and cradle..the spit is a rod you pass through the meat and then hold the meat in place via the tines on the spit, much like every rotisserie you probably saw as a child (but massively over engineered as only Dennis can) the cradle is a cradle on one side and the open side has arms that close over the meat to secure the meat inside the cradle. You set the meat in, then swing the arms down onto the meat which secures the meat from falling out of the open side of the cradle. If you look at the pictures on the main website (for the 23), you can see the difference between the two.
 

I have the cradle, I find it easy to use and I also use PBW to clean it. Since I do a lot of roasts and very few chickens I like the basket for both. If I did mostly chickens I would probably prefer the spit.

Give Dennis a call, all you questions will be answered.

Regards

[DennisLinkletter]

On 7/2/2020 at 11:33 PM, skyros said:

Thanks Sr. Member. for the note.  I was just asking for clarification in a neutral manner. I think you misread my tone in the message.  Frankly, it's a bit of a complicated device if you really think about it. Also, I also was inquiring if there was a way to improve the design by making the motor a hex drive. I'm not an engineer, but was just wondering since we were discussing it. I'll reach out to the OneGrill folks to ask them about that idea and if makes any sense in reducing any slippage. Yes, good call on the cleaning of the cradle. I suppose the cradle could be good for cooking fillets of fish or smaller pieces of meat. I know I hate opening the grill to flip meat once the temp is stable. And the Spit is not limited to size. Always good during Thanksgiving Turkey Day here in the States. 

Let's see if I can help you understand the how's and why's..   trust me it's really not all that complicated.

First of all other rotisseries I know of have one shaft that goes directly to the motor. Most rotisseries are also over open coals or wood with no lid. 
The square roti spit sits on supports and goes directly into the motor that has a square socket. 
This is a ONE socket system.  The play in the one socket system is 1/3rd that of the KK's three socket system.

I wanted a way to run the roti with the lid latched and completely airtight.  Rather then make up a wedge and run it with the lid cracked, I installed a drive shaft that runs thru the body.  So on the right there is a socket inside the grill attached to the driveshaft in a sleeve with needle bearings and another socket on the outside of the KK in the middle of the side accessory plate. The motor of course it the third socket.  This is a three socket system.
The first version was all square sockets.   Think of the second hand on a clock very little movement at the center creates much more movement at the outside/tip.   Because of the tiny bit of play in each socket X 3,  the cradle would come around and at some point would fall forward about an inch.  Some roti motors also  have some slack in the gears and added to this movement.  I felt this was unacceptable and gave it a less than quality feel.   My solution that reduced the movement by 2/3s was to change the two sockets in the drive train to hex.  The hex socket having more faces for the shaft to make contact seemed to do the trick. The motor of course it still square, so the outside the grill shaft is square on the motor side and hex on the KK side.  
You may be limited by the 23" Ultimate's cradle being 8"  but the 32" Big Bad's 10" cradle should hold any turkey you want to throw at it.