Knife Recommendations?

[Syzygies]

On 1/20/2021 at 5:33 PM, 5698k said:

There’s been posts about Japanese steel, white and blue are the most prevalent in the carbon steel world, the difference is basically hardness. Blue and white are different..no one is “better”than the other. Blue is harder, holds its edge longer, assuming everything is equal, it’s also more brittle, making it a bit more fragile. White steel is a bit softer, less brittle, but also easier to sharpen to a screaming edge, to the point that there are plenty of forgers that will only use white steel.

This paragraph wins the thread for me. I've seen charts but this is an opinionated but probably right analysis of what the charts are trying to say.

[cruzmisl]

Tony, it doesn't seem to be available in Canada but I do have an inquiry into them to find out.
 

Consider services like the following,

https://myusaddress.ca/

I just learned about these services recently but never tried any of them.

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[tekobo]

I am very pleased to have benefitted from your collective experience on this thread.  After a couple of days of research and debate here we dived in and bought the TSPROF K03 sharpening system.  The constraints on length of blade with the cheaper options and the fact that this system can also be used to sharpen our secateurs, chisels and my sewing scissors clinched it for us.

The kit arrived in a neat box yesterday and The Husband got it out to use immediately.  My crude assessment is that "all" that this does is a) helps you to choose the angle at which you will sharpen your knife and b) locks your knife into position so that you are able to apply the whetsone across your blade at that consistent angle.  I think this means that you don't develop the skill and feel required to sharpen a knife by hand on a whetstone without any assistance but it does free you up to focus on your knife, the specific results you want and how to achieve them with the various stones and angles available to you.

The Husband practised on an old Kasumi knife that we had consigned to our knife drawer in the basement.  It came out beautifully.  I used it to cut up a pile of post juicing orange shells for the compost heap.  The ease with which the blade glided through the rubbery skin and thick shells was just amazing.  Very little pressure.  It made me realise how much effort I had previously been using to cut things up in the kitchen, even with my regular use of the steel.

 Do we really need this piece of kit?  Probably not.  We could have achieved something that was close enough if we had only used the whetstones that we already had more often.  Am I pleased that we bought this piece of kit?  Absolutely.  The absence of effort when it came to cutting stuff up felt life changing.  Not planning to buy any new knives here.  Will be looking to get to know the ones that we have better.  And yes, I am scared of my now very sharp knife.  I need to relearn how to handle it in use and when washing.  Super happy.  

[Syzygies]

3 hours ago, tekobo said:

After a couple of days of research and debate here we dived in and bought the TSPROF K03 sharpening system.

That's a beautiful kit. I'm into water stones (and their feel just after "cleaning" by flattening with a diamond stone). I'd be seriously interested if the TSPROF was compatible with keeping a water stone wet.

There's a logical trap you can easily avoid, by tweaking the angle control as you work. The assumption is that knives need to be sharpened at a fixed angle, and that people are no good at keeping a fixed angle without a guide. The risk here is that the guide is too good at keeping a fixed angle.

A standard question in virtually all situations is "which way do you want to miss?"

I learned this as a kid: One bushwhacks towards a camp on a stream by aiming to one side, so when you reach the stream, you know which way to turn.

Here, on the finer stones, you don't want to roll away from the edge of the blade, polishing the shoulder rather than refining the edge. It is however ok to roll a tiny bit forward onto the edge. For a high end wood plane like a Lie-Nielsen, one sharpens so frequently that people favor two angle steps as a matter of efficiency. The idea of a primary bevel and a secondary bevel is explained in their Sharpening Instructions PDF. Woodworking is more demanding than cooking; it's always interesting to learn from communities where the ideas really matter.

When people sharpen free-hand, we do it by feel, a multi-sensory version of listening. We have no idea what's really happening to our angle control, but chasing the proper feel as one progresses through finer stones works in practice. We're all riding a bit up onto the edge, rather than polishing the shoulder. This is the real reason I like to flatten my stones so often: a ridiculously clean stone has a feel that provides better feedback.

Ok, so what happens using a TSPROF, if you're not tweaking angles like a guitar player bending notes? At first, you're not riding up onto the edge at all. This is more work, but the TSPROF is so good at work that you won't notice. But over time, the coarser stones wear more quickly than the finer stones. They'll look the same thickness but they're not! Geometry question: Which way does this miss? Will you tend to ride up onto the shoulder or the edge as you move to finer stones?

This becomes clear if you imagine exaggerating the effect. What happens to angle as the stone gets thicker? One can offset this by tweaking the angles as one works. There doesn't have to be a 5 degree difference in bevels, like for wood planes. A small fraction of a degree makes a big difference.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Syzygies

[Sir Bill]

3 hours ago, tekobo said:

TSPROF K03 sharpening system

Hi @tekobo

I was thinking about this too as this system was mentioned in a post a while back. Which options did you choose as there seem to be several? Also, I noticed that they were announcing another model called the Kadet but it hasn't shipped as yet - did you consider this? Finally did you buy from Russia or their Estonia distributor? Thanks

[tekobo]

2 hours ago, Syzygies said:

That's a beautiful kit. I'm into water stones (and their feel just after "cleaning" by flattening with a diamond stone). I'd be seriously interested if the TSPROF was compatible with keeping a water stone wet.

My husband, also known as @Sharky, is in the middle learning his way around this piece of kit as I type.  The whetstones are sitting in a bowl of water and he also moistens the whetstone that is in use at intervals.  I read your post out to him @Syzygies.  He has some thoughts and says he will post later.  I think he is having too much fun to stop now.

1 hour ago, Sir Bill said:

was thinking about this too as this system was mentioned in a post a while back. Which options did you choose as there seem to be several? Also, I noticed that they were announcing another model called the Kadet but it hasn't shipped as yet - did you consider this? Finally did you buy from Russia or their Estonia distributor? Thanks

I started this journey because @5698k's post about the TSPROF was the next one up when I logged back on to the forum that day.  It caught my imagination and I passed the details on to The Husband who dived head first into the rabbit hole.  It also helped that @Braai-Q said he had been considering TSPROF as his next choice.  

Choices.  We looked at the cheaper Blitz model first.  It had some limitations but was  initially The Husband's preferred choice.  When he provided a position report I really liked the idea of being able to sharpen other tools, using an adaptor, on the K03.  He totted up the cost of buying the specific options that we wanted and found a) that it was quite high and b) that a number of the options were not immediately available.  We had originally laughed at the sales blurb that read:  "Cannot choose between all TSPROF K03 sharpening systems, but still looking for the best expansions, sharpening stones and accessories? If so the K03 Expert Complete Kit is the best choice for you!" Ridiculous! We thought.  

The fact is, the complete kit wasn't much more expensive than assembling the options that we wanted and all the parts we wanted were available as part of the complete kit.  So we bought it from these guys in the Netherlands: https://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/pt/-tsprof-k03-expert-complete-kit-sharpening-system-ts-k03200410.htm

Yes, Mark did hear about the Kadet but it not available yet and we were happy with our choice.  As I said to @Braai-Q yesterday, our problem is that we have no adult supervision in our house.  All good.     

[cruzmisl]

These types of sharpening systems give great results without the steep learning curve of manual sharpening. They also give the ability for new users to accurately modify sharpening angles. These systems are typically frowned upon by die hard enthusiasts though. Personally I think they're great (unfamiliar with the mentioned brand) and make ridiculously sharp knives available to everyone.

J.

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[tony b]

15 hours ago, cruzmisl said:

Consider services like the following,

https://myusaddress.ca/

I just learned about these services recently but never tried any of them.

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I use a similar service (forward2me) to ship goods from the UK to the US. It works great. 

[Sharky]

@tekobo’s husband here. I’m getting to grips with the K03. I think I’ve done about 10 knives now, from a 10” flexible fish filleting knife (12 degrees sharpening angle) to a heavy, thick meat hatchet (27 degrees).  
The system makes it much easier to achieve a consistent, predictable, razor-sharp edge along the whole cutting edge. This will bring some expensive and much loved knives back to life for us, as well as making them safer to use. 
I have tried both the diamond matrix and smaller boride stones, both work well.  The main difference I noticed was that the diamond stones worked faster on the coarser re-profiling cuts. Both were easy to wet by keeping the not-in-use ones in a tray of water and dipping a finger into the tray to re-wet every few minutes. 
I can see what @Syzygiesmeans about choosing how you want to miss, but when the stones get worn enough to make a difference, I reckon the angle adjustment (aided by the included digital protractor) is simple enough and fine enough to compensate very easily. Also, once I have the knives “dialled in” and have a note of their bevel angles, I won’t need to use the coarse stones for routine maintenance. There is also an adaptor to allow grinding of a convex edge which I have not yet investigated. 
So far very happy, and the paper-thin test cuts on a soft tomato, plus a couple of perfect fillets taken from a Brill this evening are making me smile. 😀

[5698k]

As your stones wear, they typically do so concave, which is where inconsistencies come into play. There are several methods of flattening, a common one is simply a diamond flattening stone. Get one of these, and you’ll extend the useful life of your stones dramatically.


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[Sharky]

3 minutes ago, 5698k said:

As your stones wear, they typically do so concave, which is where inconsistencies come into play. There are several methods of flattening, a common one is simply a diamond flattening stone. Get one of these, and you’ll extend the useful life of your stones dramatically.


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Yes, thanks for the tip, I’ll definitely get a flattening stone to maintain the whetstones - it’s a bit weird that the “comes with everything” K03 package doesn’t include that. 
The convex adapter (I assume) will cut a curved edge profile on a knife - probably more for hunting type knives which we don’t use too much in the urban part of Southern England where we live. 🤣. I think some Japanese knives have a widening angle towards the edge too but I realise now (thanks to the new toolkit) that I have a LOT to learn about knives. 
The instructions with the system are woeful but I have found some useful YouTube channels - KnifeKrazy has been the most helpful but I’d welcome any other suggestions...

[cruzmisl]

and the paper-thin test cuts on a soft tomato,

That reminds me of last summer. So thin it only had one side.

J.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Av-gVB0imZQEtQkg71EBx9aLmeeD

[5698k]

Micro bevels are often used in low angle Japanese knives. Let’s say your sharpening angle is 15°. Once your done, set your sharpener to about 25°, and with your highest grit stone, make a couple of passes at this setting. The result is a stronger edge, with very little, if any different feel than a non micro beveled edge.


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[Grant]

I’m assuming sharky is using the stones supplied in the kit.  What stones are you using Robert?  What grit progression do you use in maintaining?

[5698k]

I actually use shapton glass stones, they work beautifully. The TS Prof will use any stone for edge pro, so there’s lots of selection. Assuming an edge that’s not damaged, I go 1k, 2k, 4K, 8k, and then strop. I have a tendency to use a really shallow angle, about 12°, then micro bevel at 25°. This is for my carbon steel Japanese kitchen knives, for more utilitarian knives I stop at 2k and don’t worry about the micro.


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[tekobo]

Simple proof of the value of a sharp knife.  The Husband is responsible for fish prep round here and he and I were delighted with how cleanly this fillet of brill came off yesterday.  

O

[Sharky]

14 hours ago, Grant said:

I’m assuming sharky is using the stones supplied in the kit.  What stones are you using Robert?  What grit progression do you use in maintaining?

I am. It came with a set of 6 boride 6” stones and a set of 3 double-sided 8” diamond matrix stones. Good enough to learn with. I have also ordered a lapping plate to keep them true. 

[Braai-Q]

6 hours ago, tekobo said:

Simple proof of the value of a sharp knife.  The Husband is responsible for fish prep round here and he and I were delighted with how cleanly this fillet of brill came off yesterday.  

O

Looks brill! Scroll down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know. I know. I couldn't help myself.

[Syzygies]

19 hours ago, 5698k said:

I actually use shapton glass stones, they work beautifully. The TS Prof will use any stone for edge pro, so there’s lots of selection. Assuming an edge that’s not damaged, I go 1k, 2k, 4K, 8k, and then strop. I have a tendency to use a really shallow angle, about 12°, then micro bevel at 25°. This is for my carbon steel Japanese kitchen knives, for more utilitarian knives I stop at 2k and don’t worry about the micro.

Wow, I'm on the brink. Just because I can sharpen freehand doesn't mean I should. I like precise control.

[Syzygies]

My current sharpening rig, $640, duplicated in two kitchens:

• Shapton Glass 4pc Set 500, 1k, 4k, 8k
• Shapton GlassStone 2000 Grit
• Shapton Sharpening Stone Holder
• Tojiro Sink Bridge
• Atoma Diamond Sharpener Super Fine - #1200

The belt-and-suspenders stone holding approach saves time. Some would say my diamond stone is too fine and should cost more, but I'm happy with this choice. I use it to regularly (often between knives) scrub my water stones clean. Flattening is a side effect.

I also own a strop and diamond paste but I don't always bother, and I'm not sure I can tell the difference. Showering adequately daily beats showering brilliantly once a week. The main issue here is to make sharpening as easy as possible.

The woodworking quickie is mine, so I can put stones away wet.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Syzygies