Non KK cooks

[John T]

You folks are like the devil with temptations 😉.  Okay, which of these is the better companion to our KK Supreme?

     Alfa 5 Minuti

     Forno Venetzia Pronto 500

[David Chang]

@John T hi john, those two ovens are very similar in floor space and mouth. the difference  being alfa is made in italy. FV in china. however i do like the cart design better on the FV, seems more practical. 

@Poochie high temperature breads like pizza and fougasse is ok. but i haven't had luck baking bread (450-500f) in the alfa. i think they over-marketed the heat retention capabilities on steel top ovens. it simply does not retain heat like a full on refactory dome oven to bake bread. once you remove the heat source (turning off gas or removing embers), the temp drops a degree every few seconds or so.  but what i found useful to keep heat loss to a minimum is to remove the flue and place a pot lid over the exhaust. but the other problem is steam production. i have tried ice cubes in a tray, and spraying a mist of water prior to baking and it's till not enough steam. the last two methods i read about in a wfo forum i haven't tried is using rolled towels soaked in hot water. if that still doesn't work, i have the APO oven for all my steam baking needs, and i don't taste the difference between breads in gas or wood, so not going to be sore about it. dessert is also something i've haven't really made, but i've seen fruit cobblers baked with great success by others. 

that being said, i think it's easy to get to pizza temps, but more challenging to maintain lower temperature cooks.

@MacKenzie why would the bricks explode in cold weather?

 

[David Chang]

8 hours ago, Poochie said:

I don't have any problem assembling the table. It's lifting 250 pounds to put the cooker on the table that troubles me.  How do you like your 5 minuti? Ever bake bread or desserts in it?  

to make it lighter, you can remove the brick floor of the oven by prying them out with a butter knife. 

[jonj]

1 hour ago, David Chang said:

@MacKenzie why would the bricks explode in cold weather?

My understanding (albeit without having yet taken delivery of one - tomorrow!) is they suggest one starts a fire smaller than normal, then gradually increases the temperature so as not to shock the fire bricks.

[David Chang]

all this pizza oven talk made me toss a pizza for lunch🤓

running gas and caputo red flour. great pizza flour…

[tekobo]

On 9/1/2022 at 6:11 PM, Poochie said:

I don't have any problem assembling the table. It's lifting 250 pounds to put the cooker on the table that troubles me.  How do you like your 5 minuti? Ever bake bread or desserts in it?  

@Poochie your concern about weight reminded me of the "lift" that we had to do when my Alfa Allegro arrived.  Five of us assembled to lift it having removed the bricks from the base of the oven to reduce weight.  The lift was super easy and we could have done it with four.  Two might have a push. It took less than a minute.  So I would not worry too much about weight if you can get help. 

I have tried to bake bread in my Allegro.  A silvery black puck was the result.  I have tried to cook desserts in my Allegro.  Instant burned top to my cake was the result.  The KK is much more controllable and I rely on the KK if I want to do any outdoor baking.  I use the WFO for high heat roasting and pizza.  That said, I have not totally given up on bread in the Allegro.  The Alfa website shows cooks baking bread in their WFO.  I don't like to be defeated and so will study them carefully to find out how they succeed.  In the meantime, my black bread is literally the toast of the town.  

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by tekobo

[tekobo]

6 hours ago, jonj said:

albeit without having yet taken delivery of one - tomorrow!

Unboxing pics please!

[MacKenzie]

You can take out the fire bricks from the oven and that will reduce the weight. They probably weigh 15 pounds each. So far 95% of my cooks have been pizza but last evening I was wanting a quick supper and had some beef patties on hand and some small leftover potatoes from my garden so decide to give those a go. Tasty.

[MacKenzie]

9 hours ago, jonj said:

My understanding (albeit without having yet taken delivery of one - tomorrow!) is they suggest one starts a fire smaller than normal, then gradually increases the temperature so as not to shock the fire bricks.

It might take quite some time to heat them up slowly and meanwhile you know who has to be out there tending the fire. I said explode but I really meant crack.  

I suppose I could put an electric heater in to warm things up before lighting a small fire. In the dead of winter I don't think I'm going to do this though. Although I will be lighting my KK. 👍👍

Edited September 2, 2022 by MacKenzie

[jonj]

9 hours ago, tekobo said:

Unboxing pics please!

In progress, removing ALL the adhesive vinyl protective film from all the stainless steel parts (over an hour for just this part) and get it off the pallet. Tomorrow morning is the moving to the back yard patio event. Pictures to come after.

I removed the bricks and it is quite a bit lighter. I don't think it is going to be an issue tomorrow.

[MacKenzie]

Jonj, you brought back that awful memory of removing the protective film from the stainless steel parts. 

Looking forward to seeing your pixs tomorrow. 

[jonj]

One can't say Alfa doesn't protect their stainless steel parts...

[Poochie]

Thank you everyone for the tips and advice. This group is great!

[jonj]

Okay, below are a few pics of the unboxing and semi-final location of the Alfa 4 Pizze. All in, it took about 4 hours to uncrate, peel off the **** vinyl from the stainless steel parts, remove the firebricks and clean them, check all the bolts and screws for tightness (only two were slightly loose - neither critical), make a ramp (one of the plywood sheets, screwed into the pallet), roll off the oven, and clean everything with stainless steel cleaner and metal cleaner (copper colored shell). That was Friday.

Today a couple of friends came over and we rolled it around the house to the patio over 3/4" plywood sheets. This took about only 15 - 20 minutes (3 plywood sheets with two people moving the sheets and two rolling the oven), followed by another 20 - 30 minutes attaching the two side shelves, replacing the firebricks, and a final clean.

It rolls very easily for the weight, similar to our KKs. Removal of the 8 firebricks lightened the oven by around 120 pounds and equally important, lowered the center of gravity considerably making it much easier to maneuver. 

Since you asked, here are some unboxing pictures.        Crate in garage, positioned so the crate can be removed between the door track/guides:

Crate off; parts are in the cardboard box; firebricks protected by paper inserts between them; and the protective vinyl film:

Back view:

Very well packaged shelves, chimney, cap, door, and an extra firebrick just in case. Very little assembly, just bolt the handles to the oven door and the shelves to the side of the frame, insert the cap on the chimney and the chimney to the top:

Film finally off; ready to remove the back wheel stop, attach the plywood ramp and roll it off:

Off the pallet; Cleaned and polished:

In place on the patio, with chimney, shelves, firebricks, and door in place. This is position one of three possible locations on the patio, pending a few trial runs:

I also have a 4.5' x 2' prep table which is the same height as the oven deck I can move over when using the oven. I'm waiting for my cooking wood delivery to seriously cook anything although I may try a few pizze with some bonfire wood to get some experience.I'm happy with it so far. I will say the Alfa cover is no match for the KK Sunbrella covers: it's pretty thin, although fitted. I may need to get a more sturdy one before serious winter arrives.

 

[MacKenzie]

Looks gorgeous, I can't wait until you taste the pizza. It is Labour Day Holiday weekend here and we baked 6 pizzas and some Tahini Swirls. My cover weighs just under 1 pound. It is no KK cover that's for sure, we'll see how long it lasts. Mine is in the ODK so not totally exposed to the weather.

[tekobo]

Thank you for the pics @jonj  It's a lovely oven the 4 pizze.  Looking forward to seeing what you cook in it.  

[David Chang]

@jonj yes, the alfa covers are pretty lightweight compared to kk's, but they seem to do the job. have you bought pizza tools? i have an alfa set with ruby red anodized aluminum, but they are just OK.. i've heard good things about GI metal pizza tools..

 

[Tyrus]

A new toy and it took 4 hours to open, you musta been savoring that or had a good bourbon in hand and was planning strategy beforehand. I see you went with the metal vs ceramic and it appears to have a inner metal layer creating an insulation zone for some high temps, looks sharp. Good luck and happy cooking on your new toy, have to say you kicked my can on pizza ovens down the road a bit...will I follow the can.  Hey, wanted to let you know I designed a V-shaped fire box for the Lang and had it fabricated at the welders, it alleviated the bad smoke and temp changes known for the flat raised stand they sell with it, works real good now, just in case your missing the Lang.

[jonj]

Cooking pizza in a wood-fired oven on a September afternoon in the midwest United States is hot and thirsty work!

[jonj]

So, first cook on new equipment and a completely new-to-me method...  What could possibly go wrong?

Actually, not too much and all user error. A couple of mis-steps of not starting my normal dough the day before and instead trying a new, same day dough recipe, with marginal yeast (I didn't check the dates before starting the dough), and not realizing until 30 minutes into the fire that my IR gun was food service rated (500°F), not the 1000° I needed (fixed the latter with ThermoWorks Labor Day sale while waiting on the fire).

All things considered, it still made decent pizza.

Fire started easily and hot

Without an infrared gun of the correct range, I had to guess at the floor temperature. This is pizza #3 of 3. The dough never relaxed so every stretch and launch was an adventure. 

However, we did get three tasty pizze out of the Alfa: artichoke hearts, kalamata olive, and goat cheese; San Marzano tomato, Canadian bacon, mushroom, and mozzarella (the one with the goofy shape); and margarita (tomato, mozzarella and basil). 

I'm okay with my first effort. They all tasted fine, but the artichoke hearts, olives, and goat cheese was the favorite. Next time, I'll use my regular dough mix, with fresh yeast, and appropriate IR temperature gun (20% off!). Thanks again to @tekobo and @MacKenzie for their advice and help. Much appreciated!