Set up help

[talisker63]

Ok, brand new KK and a LOT of grills and racks and stones etc.

Help!

I want to slow cook some lamb shoulder - should take about 6-7 hrs at 225F indirect

I have the basket filled with charcoal - check

Then what goes on next in regards to the racks and baskets and heat deflectors etc

And what rack does the actual meat go on.

Sorry to sound really dumb but I have never done this style of BBQ ever before,down here we traditionally direct grill everything.

What I am looking for is a basic set up instructions for the multitude of grills etc,

Thanks

[Tucker]

Re: Set up help

Appears to be a basic indirect cook.

I usually setup as follows...

>Charcoal basket

>Heat deflector stone on top of the handles

>Drip pan lined with foil on top of the heat deflector.

>Main grill in.

>Heat soak everything to desired temp.

If you want to add smoke wood, once it is heat soaked:

Rremove everything

>Drop in smoke wood chunks

>Put everything back in the order stated above

>Let smoke turn from dark gray to almost trasnparent

Put meat on.

Wait.

[Loquitur]

Re: Set up help

To add to what Tucker said, if you want to add food to the cook as you go along, you can sit the sear grill, which is the smallest one, on its tall handles on the main grill, which will give you a second cooking level above the lamb.

[talisker63]

Re: Set up help

Thanks guys

I will grab some pictures along the way...

It's a bit to far to invite you on down for dinner!

[Loquitur]

Re: Set up help

One other thing I would recommend to you as a new owner - move quickly when you put the lamb on because opening the lid for an extended period may fuel your fire and it will be difficult for you, without any experience, to get the temp back down.

[5698k]

Re: Set up help

Give yourself plenty of time to heatsoak, don't get in a hurry. Remember, you now have a grill that doesnt blink at days of fire without refill, so light it a couple of hours in advance!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[mguerra]

Re: Set up help

I have never found it necessary to pre- heat soak the KK for any cook. I do it sometimes, however, for timing logistics. Conceptually, I hate to waste the heat energy not cooking. Almost all shorter cooks do nicely and finish quite well with an ascending heat profile. You can cook it without precise temperature control. Like a tenderloin. Get the fire going and put the meat on. Open the vents all the way and be sure to have a temp probe in the meat. The fire starts cooler and gets hotter and all the while the tenderloin is cooking, you are not wasting any heat energy. If the meat isn't finished by the time the fire temp hits about 475, close the vents to a small crack. The cook will finish quick enough and the meat will be perfect. I use this exact technique for cut up chicken, works like a charm. Also steaks, way up on the main grill. For steaks, you get a little longer cook and a little more smoke this way. This also gets even cooking throughout the steak like a sous vide. If you like your steaks rare inside and done outside this is not your method! For any cook using this ascending fire temp, you cook up on the main grill away from the fire, direct or indirect at your discretion. It is very relaxed, you don't worry at all about fire temp control except to narrow down the vents at 475. Almost any non low and slow, except pizza or bread, can cook this way.

[Loquitur]

Re: Set up help

I'm with Doc on this one. I don't have the time, not to mention the patience, to do all that waiting before I start cooking. My technique is to light the lump with my weedburner, pull open the lower vent door a few inches, open the wheel all the way and spin open the top vent. When the Tel Tru gets to 200 deg, which is pretty quick with all that air flowing through it, I load my food as long as the smoke coming from the top vent is smelling good, which has been the case 99% of the time. This way I can work without gloves loading my food and whatever temp probes I may be using. I have enough experience with my KK that I can shut it down to my desired cooking temp from there, without heat soaking first, even for a low and slow cook. But I think heatsoaking for an hour at the desired temp before adding any food to the grill is good advice for a new owner since they don't know how to control the temps yet. I just don't want potential buyers to be scared away from the KK thinking all this time needs to elapse before you can cook. I surely would never have bought it if that was my impression.

[Cookie]

Re: Set up help

You could adapt this for your lamb:

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=5075&p=43979&hilit=Cookie#p43979

[talisker63]

Re: Set up help

Perfect! Thanks Cookie

[EGGARY]

Re: Set up help

I'm with Doc on this one. I don't have the time' date=' not to mention the patience, to do all that waiting before I start cooking. My technique is to light the lump with my weedburner, pull open the lower vent door a few inches, open the wheel all the way and spin open the top vent. When the Tel Tru gets to 200 deg, which is pretty quick with all that air flowing through it, I load my food as long as the smoke coming from the top vent is smelling good, which has been the case 99% of the time. This way I can work without gloves loading my food and whatever temp probes I may be using. I have enough experience with my KK that I can shut it down to my desired cooking temp from there, without heat soaking first, even for a low and slow cook. But I think heatsoaking for an hour at the desired temp before adding any food to the grill is good advice for a new owner since they don't know how to control the temps yet. I just don't want potential buyers to be scared away from the KK thinking all this time needs to elapse before you can cook. I surely would never have bought it if that was my impression.[/quote']

I agree with you and Doc for the most part. However, I do think it is more important before putting on the meat/food, to let the yucky smoke get burnt off first. Have heard many complaints about food tasting awful from putting the food on right after lighting the charcoal.

[Loquitur]

Re: Set up help

Eggary: I find if the smoke from the dome smells OK, I am ready to go without having to worry about acrid taste. But then again, I often don't use any smoking wood in my cooks - just Ozark Oak or Royal Oak lump - which on its own gives me a smoky flavor. And if I am adding additional smoke wood, it is a chunk or two of apple or cherry. So maybe this is the reason I don't get overbearing smoke issues after the lump/smoke wood is lit for 15 min or so like others experience. I did do an Eggplant Parmesan Casserole once on the KK the first year I had it and I had to dump the whole thing in the garbage because it was so bitter, acrid and unpleasant from bad smoke. But it hasn't happened since. People are different as to what tastes good to them and the most important thing is to cook for your family and friends - however they like it.

[mguerra]

Re: Set up help

I will do a timing/logistic heat soak tonight. I need to get a bird on the fire early, finish the cook and haul the bird on a road trip. So about midnight I will start the fire and run it at cracked vents. This will burn very little fuel overnight, get the KK thoroughly hot, and about 7AM I'll put the turkey on and open the vents. So I can sleep an extra hour in the morning. So that's a logistic heat soak not done for a presumed cooking result but for timing.

[tekobo]

On 16/11/2012 at 12:25 PM, Tucker said:

Re: Set up help

Appears to be a basic indirect cook.

I usually setup as follows...

>Charcoal basket

>Heat deflector stone on top of the handles

>Drip pan lined with foil on top of the heat deflector.

>Main grill in.

>Heat soak everything to desired temp.

If you want to add smoke wood, once it is heat soaked:

Rremove everything

>Drop in smoke wood chunks

>Put everything back in the order stated above

>Let smoke turn from dark gray to almost trasnparent

Put meat on.

Wait.

Hello, I am researching in advance of my big cook on Sunday night.  I cooked a leg of lamb last night - most of the time indirect above the cold half of the firebox and moved over to the fire side to brown.  It came out very well but there was a lot of smoke from the lamb fat dripping on to the coals.  For New Year's Eve I have decided to go with lamb shoulder.  Possibly two.  The advice from @Tucker above looks good to me but I realise it was from 2012.  Has anything changed in the world of KK cooking since then that I should know about?  If I go for two shoulders they won't fit on one layer.  Maybe stack on main and upper grate?  My usual oven mode is 110-130C for seven hours and I would look to do similar here.  No smoking planned, smoke pot not yet ready to commission.  All advice gratefully received.  

[tony b]

Ignore the deflector stone advice. No one uses theirs any more. Either use a drip pan or a sheet of aluminum foil on the lower grate instead. With this much fat rendering, I'd go with the drip pan. 

If you can't get 2 shoulders on the main grate, then you're obviously going to stack on upper/main. The one on the upper grate will cook faster, so use that one for your meat temperature probe (if you don't have one for each shoulder.) If you can, try and swap them half way through the cook to even the times out some. 

For lamb, I'd cook at a higher temp - 325F, as there's not as much connective tissue to break down like in a butt or a brisket. Will shorten your cooking time, use less charcoal, and likely render out more fat. YMMV

Let us know how it turns out, with pics, please!

[tekobo]

Thanks @tony b.  You got me thinking.  Lots of questions. So, is Tony right about the connective tissue thing? How do you know what connective tissue different cuts of meat have?  I did some googling and found a site which lists the collagen content for different meat "products".  Assuming that is a good measure of connective tissue, then beef shin wins at 4.76g/100g.  Brisket comes in at 2.88 and skinless chicken breast (why eat that??) at 0.62. A lamb leg by comparison is at 1.68 and lamb shoulder at 2.00.  So, a lamb shoulder isn't that far off brisket using this measure.  All that googling got me to some interesting slow cooking sites and reminded me of your challenge to try out some sous vide to finish in the KK. Lots to explore there and I'll take up that challenge in due course.  

What I failed to say in my original post is that part of the reason for the choice of lamb shoulder is because The Husband doesn't want to have to stand there carving on the night so the mission I have been given is to get the lamb to a state where it can be shredded with forks.  My usual method to achieve that is the relatively low temperature long cook that I proposed.  

Still thinking about what to do on Sunday though.  One of the sides that I have planned is boulangere potatoes.  I was looking through a list of potato recipes and the magic of potatoes cooking under your roast, with fat dripping down onto them, was too good for me to resist.  I can fit two le Creuset roasting pans in side by side, on the deflector in the 23" and that seemed like a good way to go. Why have you all abandoned your deflectors?  Because they are heavy and the drip pan will do?  For the potato gig, the deflector provides a good flat surface for the pans so I may use it or see if the lower grate is just as good.  A bit worried about crunching up the potatoes too fast if the pans are directly above the heat on the grate so that's where your advice re the drip pan lower down would come in.    

Which brings me to timing.  On a 7 hour cook, the potatoes will have been in way too long.  Leg of lamb would be more compatible for timing.  So, I either swap to leg or stick with shoulder but put the potatoes in later, potentially missing out on some of the early fat from the lamb.  Decisions, decisions.  But fun ones to have to make.  Am loving the versatility of my new toys.  

[Bruce Pearson]

Looking forward to see how this New Years cook goes. It all sounds very interesting, pictures please if you can and Happy New Year Tekobo and family!

[tony b]

8 hours ago, tekobo said:

Why have you all abandoned your deflectors?

Not a lot of benefit over other methods and using it really slows down your pre-heat time. It soaks up a lot of heat, as it's made from the same material as the walls. I haven't used mine in years. If I'm just looking to cook indirectly, it's usually just a sheet of foil; but if the cook is going to drip a lot of fat, then I'll go with a drip pan to catch it to prevent a lot of bad smoke.

If you're going with shredded lamb, I understand the cooking technique you proposed now. To quote a previous POTUS - "Stay the course."

I based my connective tissue comment on memory/experience. I've never looked for comparative data like you found - interesting though. To put that comparison into a proper perspective - the brisket has almost 50% more connective tissue than the lamb shoulder, so they aren't actually very close at all. 

While potentially a bit messy, you could always put your empty le Creuset pans under the lamb to start with to catch the drippings, then add the potatoes at the proper time for them to finish with the meat? 

 

[Bruce Pearson]

I use the broiler pan from my oven for a drip pan works pretty good. The one Dennis sends is just to pretty to use as a drip pan. I haven’t used my oven since I have lived here (28) years so figure why not use the broiler pan

[tekobo]

Really helpful to know why the deflectors are not in favour.  Also helpful that you pointed out that you put the drip pan on the lower grate @tony b.  That has helped me a lot with my real estate problem.  I can go back to the 21" for the low and slow because I can fit two le Creuset pans in side by side when they are on the lower grate (but not on the deflector, which is what I originally thought I would need to do).

The connective tissue thing was interesting and I settled on the collagen count as a measure because it confirmed what I thought.  I suspect there is more to the subject than that but sometimes one has to admit that you are just looking for reinforcement and I settled before I found any evidence to contradict my view!  We are now discussing the difference between 2.86% and 2% - a big difference when you compare the numbers directly but when considered as a proportion of a 100, not so much

Tonight's chicken cook went well and I tried out roasting marble potatoes under the chicken in a Le Creuset.  They were delicious and the husband made an awesome sauce with stock and the nasty bits.  I think I will stick the potatoes in for the full seven hours.  They will be at a relatively low temperature for most of the time and I can pull them early if necessary.  I don't have a broiler pan @Bruce Pearson and so will have to rely on Dennis' beautiful drip pan wrapped in foil if I end up moving the potatoes early.  What fun.  I empathised with @talisker63's consternation at the range of grates and stones available to him/her.  I am getting to know them a bit more as I run around, reconfiguring the set ups to suit my latest plans.  All set now.  Roll on tomorrow!