Stuff like this just rubs me the wrong way

[billg71]

So I replied in a post about Lane's Kickstarter campaign, they're promising to send you 12 bottles of rub and a T-shirt if you pledge $154. Now they're mostly funded so I'd assume there's not much risk but think about what you're buying into. They don't state how big the bottles are, first of all. I went to the Lane's website and their store, it looks like the bottles they're picturing on Kickstarter are 4 oz. or so, same as on their site. So that's 12x4=48oz. for $154, that's $3.21/oz.. That's awful expensive for rubs that consist primarily of kosher salt, brown sugar and black pepper.

For $50 you could go to WalMart and leave with enough ingredients to make 20 lb. of anything they offer. Click over to Amazing Ribs and you'll find all the rub recipes you could ever want. Play around, make a few of them your own. You'll be glad you did.

Honestly, I don't have any axe to grind with Lane's or any other boutique manufacturer, they're just a small business trying to make a profit. What they sell is typical of the industry: Take a lot of cheap ingredients, toss in a small amount of more expensive ingredients, put it in a plastic bottle that probably costs more than what's in it, slap on a label and sell it for all the market will bear. Look what McCormick has done with Montreal Steak or their Grill Mates, same thing just on a larger scale.

If you're here you deserve better.  And you can do better, it isn't hard or expensive. You bought the most expensive ceramic cooker in the world because you have a serious interest in outdoor cooking and you appreciate the best. Why throw overpriced salt and sugar on what you're cooking? Take a little time, learn what a rub is, buy some inexpensive raw materials and try a few recipes. I guarantee you'll be happier with what you come up with than something off a shelf or Amazon.

OK, soapbox is stowed. Apologies for the rant. But some things just hit a nerve.

Best,

Bill

 

 

[Aussie Ora]

I totally agree consumers are scamed everyday by someone flogging their goods. But most people want convenience. I have made up alot of seasonings but enjoy some of the commercial stuff because it gives me variety on hand. I have been looking at peach rubs and have been thinking about using dehydrated peach what's your thoughts on that

Outback Kamado Bar and Grill

[ckreef]

I agree with you in principle. 

Convenience is a big factor. When I do a long involved cook I will make my own rub or sauce but for limited time weeknight cooks I'm all for the store bought. Personally I like almost everything McCormick and it's reasonably priced compared to other brands. 

Store bought sauces are much easier for the weeknight cook. Unless you get into the whole home canning thing (which I do from time to time) sauces have a limited shelf life in the fridge. Bottled sauce lasts a long time until you open it. 

 

 

 

[egmiii]

Until I bought the KK, I used a variety of store bought rubs. Some were great and others so so. The price per ounce was insane. But since my grilling was limited to small cuts and only required a light sprinkle, the overall cost per serving was minimal, and it allowed me to explore a variety of flavors. That being said, once I got into smoking multiple packer briskets, pork shoulders, and ribs, I started making my own rubs. If I used the store made blends, I'd spend more on the spice than the meat! Store rubs still have their place in the grilling world, but anyone serious about BBQ, who's buying little jars of rub is either filthy rich, or clearly not seasoning adequately. 

[ckreef]

23 hours ago, billg71 said:

 

If you're here you deserve better.  And you can do better, it isn't hard or expensive. You bought the most expensive ceramic cooker in the world because you have a serious interest in outdoor cooking and you appreciate the best. Why throw overpriced salt and sugar on what you're cooking? Take a little time, learn what a rub is, buy some inexpensive raw materials and try a few recipes. I guarantee you'll be happier with what you come up with than something off a shelf or Amazon.

 

2 hours ago, egmiii said:

Store rubs still have their place in the grilling world, but anyone serious about BBQ, who's buying little jars of rub is either filthy rich, or clearly not seasoning adequately. 

I basically disagree with these 2 quotes especially the second quote. The second quote is somewhat implying that people using store bought rubs is not serious about BBQ. I would say anyone who spends thousands of dollars on a KK or two is way more serious than most people. As for the filthy rich aspect that is just plain ludacris. I probably have the lowest household income of all KK owners worldwide and I still buy store bought rubs and sauces. 

There is a lot more to the world of BBQ and grilling then just ribs, butts and brisket. 

Note: I wasn't going to respond to this post again (other than my first post) but I received a few private messages from members who felt somewhat insulted by this thread. And yes we all realize that wasn't the original intention. 

[tony b]

Thanks, Charles. Well said. 

[billg71]

43 minutes ago, ckreef said:

 

I basically disagree with these 2 quotes especially the second quote. The second quote is somewhat implying that people using store bought rubs is not serious about BBQ. I would say anyone who spends thousands of dollars on a KK or two is way more serious than most people. As for the filthy rich aspect that is just plain ludacris. I probably have the lowest household income of all KK owners worldwide and I still buy store bought rubs and sauces. 

There is a lot more to the world of BBQ and grilling then just ribs, butts and brisket. 

Note: I wasn't going to respond to this post again (other than my first post) but I received a few private messages from members who felt somewhat insulted by this thread. And yes we all realize that wasn't the original intention. 

@ckreef, it was certainly not my intention to insult anyone and I sincerely apologize if I did. My point in this thread was that anyone who owns a KK cooker has already spent  a substantial amount of funds on the best charcoal cooker on the planet and a lot of time learning how to make it work. We've all made a substantial investment in our interest in cooking so why wouldn't we be equally interested in continuing on to the next step of developing our own unique flavor profiles? It's just another step on the path to barbecue enlightenment. And it's so easy to do with the resources of the Internet at our fingertips.

Find a recipe for a rub you think you'd like, try it, fiddle with it, make it your own. I'll venture to say you'll be more satisfied with the results than with something you bought.

It's all about the journey.

Best,

Bill

[ckreef]

3 minutes ago, billg71 said:

@ckreef, it was certainly not my intention to insult anyone and I sincerely apologize if I did. My point in this thread was that anyone who owns a KK cooker has already spent  a substantial amount of funds on the best charcoal cooker on the planet and a lot of time learning how to make it work. We've all made a substantial investment in our interest in cooking so why wouldn't we be equally interested in continuing on to the next step of developing our own unique flavor profiles? It's just another step on the path to barbecue enlightenment. And it's so easy to do with the resources of the Internet at our fingertips.

Find a recipe for a rub you think you'd like, try it, fiddle with it, make it your own. I'll venture to say you'll be more satisfied with the results than with something you bought.

It's all about the journey.

Best,

Bill

TY Bill for the reply. I think we all realize you had good intentions with this thread it just got a little skewed. 

Currently working on homemade BBQ sauces and will keep tweaking until I get them right at which time I'll post them in the recipe section. 

May I suggest if you have a particularly good homemade rub recipe please post it in the recipe section. I'm more than willing to try it out. 

[5698k]

I've said this before...when I took Johnny Trigg's class a couple of years ago, his advice was to use "store bought" rubs. He went on to say that he meant that he doesn't try to make his own. He believes that there are so many variables to flavors, let someone else do the trial and error, it's much easier to just find a rub, or combination that you like.

That said, store bought is wide ranging, meaning my favorite rub is one I purchase, but not a one you'll find in a grocery store.


Rob

[egmiii]

It looks like my post ruffled a few feathers. As Charles stated, and I'll confirm, this was certainly not my intent. I value this forum, respect the members, and enjoy the spirited and friendly dialogue, so please allow me to clarify and elaborate on my previous remarks.

My final comment was a reaction to the original post regarding the pricing of Lane's rubs for BBQ. I typically use around 8oz of rub on my weekly overnight BBQ (CyberQ has made it too easy). At Lane's prices, that's 3.21 x 8 = $25.68. My Chris Lily inspired mix runs about $0.50 for the same amount (I buy spices in bulk at Restaurant Depot). "filthy rich" was my over the top way of saying their "little jars" (4oz) are relatively expensive considering my "serious" usage patterns, and seasoning preferences. In retrospect that was a poor choice of words and could have been phrased better. There are plenty of excellent rubs sold online in larger quantities for far less than Lane's. Serious BBQ competitors and weekend warriors swear by them. I was simply commenting on the relative value proposition of a $3.21 per ounce rub used on a regular basis. In my case, that's over $1200 per year.

In my opinion, BBQ and grilling are very different styles of cooking, and I really try not to interchange the terms. I consider roasting, smoking, and braising distinct techniques as well, but I digress. Raw ingredients used for grilling are almost limitless, and the seasonings to complement them are nearly as diverse. I tend to buy branded rubs to keep things exciting and convenient. As I said before, the price per ounce is high, but the cost per use is low. I grill once or twice a week depending upon the time of year, and just for my immediate family. Rubs usually expire before I run out. I believe raw ingredients for BBQ are limited to the high collagen cuts of pork, beef, and the occasional chicken leg. I explored various store rubs early on, but eventually settled on just salt and pepper, or a sweet heat blend. I find the familiar flavors comforting, and my guests discourage experimentation. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" they say.

Quoting ckreef - "There is a lot more to the world of BBQ and grilling then just ribs, butts and brisket."

I agree. Your forum posts are likely one of the most comprehensive resources demonstrating the versatility of the kamado style cooker. You not only talk the talk, but you walk the walk. Many readers across the forums are better cooks because of your contributions. Myself included.

Quoting ckreef - "Personally I like almost everything McCormick"
Something else we can agree upon! Here's a shot of one of my McCormick drawers.

[DennisLinkletter]

I believe both have their merits.. that being said.. Freshness is SOOO Important when it comes to spices. My favorite analogy is that of pre-ground canned. store bought coffee VS freshly roasted, ground just before you brew it coffee.  Once you try the latter you never go back.  I always say that freshly ground spices are 70-80% more aromatic.  I love WorldSpice.com in Seattle..  They will grind as you ship or send you whole so you can grind your own which is what I do.  I buy small quantities regularly and put colored date stickers on the bottom of the bottles.. When they get old I use them as smoking material.. Montrial steak rub creates great smoke.  I'm sure it's the rosemary which I smoke with all the time.. Dried chilies make great smoke but make sure it does not get in your eyes!  Just toss the spices on your burning char and close it up and let it sit with your meat.. barely crack it.. Most important advice.. have fun!

[Aussie Ora]

egmii don't stress mate I know where you were coming from. For me it's a bit different I have a spice shop down the road that I use regularly but being in Australia and getting into the whole Kamado thing trying rubs from the U.S is fun. Anyone got a homemade peach recipe don't be shy otherwise commercial can be a good thing

Outback Kamado Bar and Grill

[Pequod]

I agree with the "both have their merits" statement. Also about freshness being key. For all my cooking I prefer to use whole spices that I grind just before using. That said, there are several commercial rubs that I truly enjoy and would have a very hard time duplicating. Oakridge BBQ currently tops my list, but am looking forward to trying Lane's. I enjoy trying commercial rubs even if they don't make my lineup. 

On sauces -- almost always make my own. 

[tony b]

@billg71 and @egmiii - appreciate the apologies. We're family here and we do argue a bit about our passions. Lots of spirited debates over the years on all things BBQ - foil/no foil, sauce/dry, briquettes/lump, etc. All we ask of Forum members is to keep it civil. 

I'm as adventurous a cook as anyone on here, and I mess with recipes all the time, including ones for sauces and rubs. Experimentation is what makes this fun for me and keeps me interested. Over the years, I've found a few favorites that I've not been able to improve on, like Robert said. Others, if I find them lacking in some way, I'll try and "fix them." Sometimes with moderate success. Again, like you guys said, it's part of the journey that is BBQ. We're eager to share what we do here and hope you both will continue to do so. 

[bosco]

I too started out making my own rubs, and quite honestly they are incredible.  However, about a year ago, I started buying a few commercial rubs.  It has been a game changer for me.  For the sake of 10-15 dollars a bottle, I get several uses out of one bottle and it opens me up to all sorts of flavours while cooking.  The problem with bulk spice buying is that you need to get fresh spices and they have a shelf life.  So if you make in bulk like I did, I found that it was going bad before I used it all up.

I love trying different rubs on cooks just to change things up.  I relate making my own rubs to owning a cottage.  If you own a cottage you tend to always travel there.  But there are so many destinations around the world that you miss out on.  You have guilt trying new places, as you feel like you are cheating on your cottage and limit your options.  

Anyways, I am down to specific spices now for each cook.  I have gathered some great spices and really love my choices for cooks

#1 all time favourite rub to date is The Slabs birds and bones.  This stuff is packed with magic.  It makes anything chicken taste lights out.  I go through 2 bottles a month and can't get enough of it.  Seriously amazing stuff!!!

John Henry's Summertime Peach - Ribs

John Henry's Cilantro Lime - Shrimp

Oakridge Black Ops - Brisket

Dizzy Pig Dizzy Dust - Burgers

Dizzy Pig Mediterranean-ish - greek food

Meat Church Deez-Nuts - Chicken 

Meat Church Holy Cow - Beef Ribs

Meat Church Honey Hog/Honey Hog Hot - Pork Ribs

Eatbarbecue Zero to Hero - Pork shoulders/butts

Lanes BBQ Sweet Heat - Everything

Lanes BBQ Signature - Everything

Lanes BBQ SPF - Seasoning for a kick of heat on about anything

Lanes BBA Brisket - beef cuts steak etc

Lanes Q-Nami - great for asian dishes 

I also really like the Cimarron Docs sweet rib rub.  I love it on my pulled pork

If I had to drop down further, I likely could but for now this is my stash.  Yesterday I leaned out my stash by about 15 bottles.  Splitting them up for my dad and best buddy who shares his love for BBQ with me.  I have leaned out some of my meat church rubs that I was never too fond of i.e.. all purpose, fajita, bacon rub.  Some of my dizzy pig rubs pineapple head, bayou cajun seasoning, henry's mojave garlic and fajita rub, and lanes ancho espresso (I want to love it, but I just can't get past the extreme coffee taste.... I hate coffee).

ok..... 

So now you got me thinking again.   Could I get down to 5 rubs if I had to??  Here we go

1.  The Slabs - Birds and Bones

2. Meat Church - Deez-Nuts

3. John Henry's - Summertime Peach

4. Lanes BBQ - Sweet Heat

5. Cimarron Doc's Sweet Rib Rub (This may be taken over with the zero to Hero due to availability in Canada)

I also would like to mention that I make a hell of a steak rub, pork rub and santa maria style rub.  Those 3 could easily replace any of the ones mentioned above but those commercial brands will always be staples for me.

 

[Pequod]

^^Posts like this are why I have a cabinet full of rubs. I've tried most of these and agree on many of those listed as staples (and discards), but then there are a few more I haven't tried that I'm compelled to track down. The slabs and John Henry's peach sound interesting. 

For me, this is currently my A-team:

Oakridge Carne Crosta for steak

Oakridge Black Ops or Meat Church Holy cow for brisket

Meat Church Holy Cow for other beef

Oakridge Jah Love for whole chook

Meat Church Honey Hog + Honey Hog Hot for pork ribs

Dizzy Pig Raging River for Salmon

 

Others I like, but don't use as often:

Simply Marvelous Cherry and Spicy Apple

Dizzy Pig Mediterranean 'ish

Dizzy Pig Pineapple Head

Oakridge Dominator on pork ribs

 

Just got my sampler pack from Lane's, so will be giving those a twirl soon. 

Edited September 18, 2016 by HalfSmoke

[bosco]

I think I will be ordering a larger pack of black ops, and likely cimarron docs (thanks to tinyfish for getting me hooked)

[skreef]

Until I bought the KK, I used a variety of store bought rubs. Some were great and others so so. The price per ounce was insane. But since my grilling was limited to small cuts and only required a light sprinkle, the overall cost per serving was minimal, and it allowed me to explore a variety of flavors. That being said, once I got into smoking multiple packer briskets, pork shoulders, and ribs, I started making my own rubs. If I used the store made blends, I'd spend more on the spice than the meat! Store rubs still have their place in the grilling world, but anyone serious about BBQ, who's buying little jars of rub is either filthy rich, or clearly not seasoning adequately. 

Ckreef isn't rich but I am.. Ok not really.. But I always say spices in stores are over pricey.. But I guess ckreef and I put most of our money in grilling. A very enjoyable time to do together. I often ask ckreef what spices he used.. His answer.. He will say guess.. So we try to guess his ingredients.. Sometimes right, sometimes wrong... But ckreef makes most of his rubs, sauces or marinades. Never know till supper time what it is.. So we go to the guessing game. It's sorta fun. And when he does makes his own rubs.. We hand grind it. Love the spice smells that raft thru the air.I also get into making my own spices and etc.. Very satisfying. Especially when it comes out right.

Mrs. Reef's Bistro

[tony b]

Rather than a specific list of rubs that I like, I'll just list the company that makes them, as I often like multiples once I find something I like.

• Plowboys
• Oakridge
• Lanes
• Dizzy Pig
• Sucklebusters
• Butcher BBQ (injector marinades)

Bosco has given me the reminder that I need to do a purge in the pantry, as I know that there's some stuff in there that's older and not used (tried and didn't like). 

Another tip for folks that like to buy ground spices in bulk - Foodsaver makes reusable, zipper-top bags, so you can significantly cut your cost by not buying the tiny jars and go to bulk bags. I break things up and use regular Foodsaver roll material to make custom size bags for longer storage and the reusable zipper-top ones for stuff that I dip into more frequently. If you don't have the regular Foodsaver vacuum system, they make a small rechargeable handheld pump that works great with the zipper-top bags.

http://www.foodsaver.com/vacuum-sealers/handheld-vacuum-sealers/the-foodsaver-freshsaver-handheld-vacuum-sealing-system/FSFRSH0051-P00.html#start=1

And the bags,

http://www.foodsaver.com/food-storage-bags-and-containers/specialty-vacuum-seal-bags-and-rolls/vacuum-zipper-bags/foodsaver-vacuum-zipper-quart-bags-34-count/FSFRBZ0226-027.html?interaction=product&source=igodigital

If you have the Foodsaver vacuum pump system with the hose attachment, you can get this guy to use with the bags, too.

http://www.foodsaver.com/accessories-and-parts/adapters/foodsaver-vacuum-zipper-bag-adapter/137207-000-000.html?interaction=product&source=igodigital

I personally think this is the a great solution for those of us that like to buy in bulk to save some coin, without worrying about wastage if stored too long. 

Edited September 18, 2016 by tony b

[Aussie Ora]

It's great to see all the rubs I have yet to experience

Outback Kamado Bar and Grill