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Yes. I owned and gave away the Lodge Double Dutch Oven, recommended by various books and predating the Challenger, because it only made boules. I considered and rejected the Fourneau Bread Oven for exactly the downsides they note. The Challenger just works, and it bakes bâtards. I used to always bake a pair of loaves and give one away, which favored my aluminum disk in a cake pan for steam. I now bake one bâtard at a time, which favors the Challenger. The KK appears to handle my steam method just fine, but when we spent more than my first two cars on an Italian range for our kitchen, we blinked. We'll still use my steam method for free form baking in the KK, but like @Pequod the Challenger has become my default both inside and in the KK.

After messing around with various steam-making methods, I've decided the Challenger is far simpler and more consistent. There are alternatives to the Challenger. Serious Eats reviewed some of these and found they all work well: The 3 Best Bread Ovens and Cloches of 2024, Tested & Reviewed (seriouseats.com)

The Challenger Bread Pan is an effective alternative to filling an entire oven with steam. They're the same idea as the Dutch oven approach, except one gets to bake a bâtard, which some of us prefer to a boule. They recommend a couple of ice cubes. In a KK, the bread then doesn't see fire till one removes the Challenger lid. That's ok; for us the main advantage of the KK is avoiding heat in the house in the summer.

Actually, what I realized was that aluminum has nearly twice the specific heat capacity as steel, so I replaced my steel chains with an aluminum disk. Thomas Keller is the earliest reference I know to using rocks, which I consider a clumsier approach than an aluminum disk. There are two pervasive problems with web debates, both raised by The Perfect Loaf. First, they need content, so they'll write something. Second, many people will assert that they're happy with an intermediate solution, and all they're saying is that they're happy. Partly because they're unaware of better solutions, and haven't tried them. The Perfect Loaf certainly doesn't compute the physics. That is a time-honored approach: Try something and see if you're happy with the results. Of course, many people claim to be happy spritzing 5 grams of water from a plant spritzer. That's a placebo effect. What I computed was the weight of aluminum needed to create enough steam to replace the volume of a KK or a conventional oven a couple times over. This is what commercial bread ovens do, because they can. What I don't understand is the marginal utility over generating just enough steam to partly fill an oven once. That certainly helps over doing nothing. It's amazing how in a weak bleach solution, bleach finds its target. I don't believe that a weak steam mixture behaves the same way, but my chemistry days are long ago.

I tried steam and it is just so much easier to use a dutch oven.

They look great !!!!

Absolutely get the cover, the half grate is included with a 32. So no need to add it. At least it always has been so you might want to ask. The half grate is one thing i couldn't live without

You will love retirement, i have hobbies that keep me so busy i don't have time to do something stupid like getting a job lol

Pork butts and briskets, i like to sleep well. And with the battery pack I think the fireboard makes it really easy. But i like playing with technology so for me its fun, except the first few times using the fireboard, i hated their interface. I was seriously overthinking the app. Now we get along fine lol

Exactly this. I have the same. Still use my FireBoard but only for internal temp and cook tracking. Used the fan twice ever…though it would be piece of mind for overnight cooks or when I’m out on the lake. It was a good crutch to have but the temp control just on the KK is too easy to keep for overnight. Most cooks I don’t even use the FireBoard anymore. Most often used cord or cable now is just the cold smoker attachment. As terrible as it sounds, now that I’ve got it dialed in, I use it for all of my long smokes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fired up one side of the big grill for a big ribeye that was dry aged for 50 days, shrimp, and a foil packet of diced taters for today's supper, plus a couple of pork chops for later in the week, all grilled over hickory and a bit of oak. Steak was nice and tender and supper was very tasty!

Totally. I bought the KK for its simplicity. I hate overcomplicating it with all the wires and electronics.

Be sure to get the stainless tables. So worth the upgrade.

If you want to use the drippings from you cook, the double-bottom pan is a good investment.

Depending on where you're going to keep your new beauty, if it's exposed, then I'd highly recommend getting a cover for it. Your list seems to cover most of the rest. We always tell folks to load up the pallet with as much of Dennis' cocochar (coconut charcoal) and coffee wood as will fit in the shipping container. It's the cheapest way to buy it.

We migrated down to Crozet from Fairfax Station four years ago. We chose here partly due to the darker skies and partly (mainly) because NOVA is nuts. Bonkers. We spent 26 years there, and I get the shakes whenever I'm up that way again for a meeting.

35% fresh milled spelt + 35% fresh milled red fife + 30% Cairnspring Trailblazer (T85). Sourdough, not desem.

Here's Maurizio's method at The Perfect Loaf for steaming your home oven. Baking Bread with Steam in Your Home Oven | The Perfect Loaf I'd skip the towel thing since KK is already a moist environment. But a cast iron pan with some lava rocks seems reasonable.

Jeff, Cool and groovy! Is that what you see when using too much hot sauce or putting some of that magic dust on your BBQ Great photos. djami - northern Virginia where the skies do not look like that

I have a propane Ooni that will have to suffice for now. I had contemplated building a roll-off roof observatory in my backyard, but it would be very expensive, and I'd have to fight the HOA. Renting space in New Mexico is cheaper, and I get about 200 clear nights per year in excellent sky conditions. As I get closer to pulling the trigger on retirement, people are trying to convince me I'd get bored—utter nonsense. If anything, I have too many interests in food-related things, astronomy, etc. And then there's the University of Virginia down the road, which offers free auditing of classes to...<ahem> senior citizens. I don't think I have time for this silly work thing anymore.

WOW! Very impressive.

this talk of steam reminded me to ask my wife in singapore to pickup a low profile vaporizer for my effeuno. something i always wanted for open bakes..

Super cool! I am guessing that all this expense means that you won't yet be allowed to add a pizza oven to your collection. Or are you pulling an out-of-sight-out-of-mind trick on your wife by moving your expensive kit to New Mexico?

I think I read @Syzygies say that he had changed his mind and didn't think we needed the heavy mass of the aluminium disc anymore. Hopefully he will chime in and explain. I want to know because it is his fault that I have a heavy aluminium disc cluttering up my bbq cupboard. 😜

Interesting... I turn up my nose at hondashi for Japanese cooking and make my own dashi from scratch. That said, compound butter using the powdered stuff does look like an interesting prospect.