samantha

I could not debate that at all...They are awesome looking :lol:

I apologize if my response to Sanny was overboard, it was not intended to be anything other than another perspective. The true tone is absent when we just use words. Sanny, I know you are a well educated attorney and probably used to these types of conversation. Also, I find myself getting manipulated by marketing. We become more aware of it when it gets into a subject we are somewhat familiar with. To put this on another level, think of Costco, a giant retailer. How does one compete with the Costcos and Walmarts? They sell the same products at a lower price point. A competitor has to market on another level such as customer service, convenience, poor labor practices, or suggest that the products are seconds or discontinued items. I have found Costco to have good consistent quality meats. I would not be surprised at all if much of it comes from high production sources. In regards to hormones, there are hormones present in our food and in our bodies. They are naturally occurring and we do use supplements for ourselves. The true question is what is the residual effect in the product. To say that they are present is one thing, but at what level, and is it truly detrimental, or are we being manipulated into thinking just the use of hormones is evil and bad. Example, table grapes can be girdled to improve size and they can be sprayed with a growth hormone to achieve greater size. The timing from application to harvest will result in no detectable residual in the fruit. The chemical Lorsban is an approved chemical for pest control on oranges, a fresh fruit, however is illegal in any quantity on olives, a processed fruit. It has nothing to do at all with food safety, it means that the manufacturer has never applied to get approval for olives because the cost to get approved is too great for the potential sales. There is not sufficient acreage to justify the investment. However, if Lorsban being applied to oranges planted alongside an olive orchard has any drift, the olive crop can be rejected resulting in a total loss to the grower. However, the grower can hire an attorney to recoup the loss even though it is a logistic loss. The fruit is safely edible but no longer qualifies for marketing because an unapproved chemical was applied. Anyway Deej, I have digressed so feel free to delete or relocate the post.

Sanny, although I am not in the dairy/cattle business, I live in an area where the business is significant and I have friends involved in the business. I have a friend who is a herd nutritionist for dairies , and explains how he prepares herd diets based on what is available in quantity (i.e. culls from fruit, etc), the nutritional needs of the herd, balanced by the grade (quality) of the herd. Do you eat a perfectly balanced diet or do you utilize food and/or health supplements? When you are sick, do you let nature take its course or do you medicate? I have a neighbor that recently retired from a feed commodities company and he told me how they blend nutritional mixes with the grains, and none of it is junk or questionable material. It is all scientifically analyzed to provide the necessary nutritional values to achieve a quality product for higher returns. So what do you define as junk, and is that information based on personal knowledge or something written by a competitor of a production grade producer? If there was valid, conclusive, independent scientific evidence that the meat was not safe, it would be banned. There may be additives to the feed, but what proof is there that it is junk or dangerous? A competitor may allege that it is dangerous and try to create fear to motivate you to purchase their product. Fear based marketing is very effective in selling not only products, but newpapaers, magazines, books, and tv ads. It is unfair to malign an entire industry with marketing strategies. The industrial manufacturing community considers a quality control factor of 97% or better to be excellent. We will never have a 100% safe food supply. However, the media loves to jump on a story that has tremendous emotional/fear appeal. One incident of salmonella in cantalope destoys the market for all. One incident of alar on an apple destroys the market. The media goes beyond providing an alert when this occurs, they create fear and they obsess because that sells. The American consumer is very hypocritical when it comes to demanding quality and wage standards and then purchases the less expensive non-regulated (wage and quality) imported competition. We have many rules and safeguards for food production in the US, however there should be greater concerns focused on the quality and standards of IMPORTED foods. The Americans travel abroad and falsely assume what they consume is as safe as what they have in the US. We live in a society driven by marketing, and a large percentage of the Organically Grown concepts are driven more by marketing than by fact. However, it sells lots of books and magazines and succeeds by creating fear. That is not to say there are not relevant thoughts, but that marketing is the driving the concept. It is interesting that oranically grown products cost more money in the store yet cost less money to produce. So why don't all the farmers take the more cost effective approach? That is a powerful example of marketing. Making lemonade out of lemons. It was organically grown spinach that had an e-coli problem recently. The contamination was not topical, but intra-cellular. It seems the organic fertilizer (i.e. natural animal waste) was incorporated into the plant itself. However, I find it interesting that the actual source of the problem did not get as much media coverage. And lets not forget when RJ wanted to undermine the KK he resorted to fear based tactics and alleged there was asbestos in the material. He did not try to address design differences/improvements or customer service, because there wasn't a favorable comparison. Maketing is emotional, and we are all susceptible. Look how the personal injury lawyers market themselves, it has little to do with fact. I apologize about the soap box, this one just hit a little close to home.

Thanks so much Leaddog we will definitely try them over two days and I will report results as in how much we bought at each!

Well Dennis I can see why the bottle disappeared so quickly and why photos were forgotten. And just how did the Zin pair up with the lamb? LeadDog....I'm looking forward to ZinFest in March. I have friends coming and could use some suggestions for sampling.

I'd also like to know more about the bottle of Zinfandel...does that say 1997 or 1967? What is origin? Lamb looks incredible.

Porkchop....do you do direct or indirect heat?

Sanny...Maybe he needs to buy you a KK on special (you liked the terra cotta) to keep you warm while he is away?

Pretty funny Curly

Sanny...this is not meant to be insensitive, but didn't you say he was a vegetarian? Maybe he just needs a little animal protein to help his thinking!

Hey Firemonkey...Just for you let me suggest the movie Birdcage!

Wow I think we could use those words in a song and it would be a big hit! :smt020 :smt020 Wow...Romantic music....melts a girls heart!

Paul, you gotta watch Porkchop, he gets this site confused with Match.com

Now we are back to the color commentary Pink, green, rainbows, black, tuscan gold! What do you have to say Curly?

I just used some cherry tonight that had loose bark on it and it is fine. It may not last as long as denser pieces. Is it dry (easily broken) or quite flexible? If it is recent pruning cuttings and has not dried somewhat , I don't know what to tell you.

Is there such a thing as food grade trash bags? Just curious if the plastic is recycled and whether it is sanitized.

I beleive there have been previous discussions regarding cowboy lump on other forums. This is link to the NakedWhiz review of Cowboy lump: http://www.nakedwhiz.com/lumpdatabase/lumpbag6.htm

didn't this answer cause a problem when I used it?

Pics or no pics....you might just get the family for every holiday now! Once you give them a KK meal look out. They may decide to come for many a long weekend also!

WOW....Like Dennis says....he is in the happiness business.

I bet she can get pretty hot.

Johnnyboy writes: More like a hunter in the middle of a big zoo! You are still a legend Johnnyboy.

This may be the wrong section to post this in, however I have been using a commercial BBQ sauce called Apricot Mango Chipotle on Ribs that is excellent. The following is the website for the manufacturer: http://kozlowskifarms.com/category/31

firemonkey writes: Good one Firemonkey!!