Uneven fuel burn?

[Dennis]

KK Team
 

Has this happened to anyone else.  This uneven burn has happened on my last two cooks.

This pic was taken after a 5 hour indirect cook. 

For today’s cook I let the pre burn go past my target cooking temp to attempt a more complete light.  Then dialed it down during 1 hour heat soak.  I do lite in 3 areas in the basket. 

TIA

[tony b]

Happens all the time. The burn front is pretty random, so it's hard to predict which direction it will go. It's because the pieces of charcoal are uneven and how they are stacked in the basket. Pretty much unavoidable unless you light the charcoal in multiple spots and cross your fingers that they burn towards each other. 

I usually have to move food around on the grate to get even cooking (if I'm using the rotisserie) as there are almost always hot spots to deal with. 

[Dennis]

39 minutes ago, tony b said:

Happens all the time. The burn front is pretty random, so it's hard to predict which direction it will go. It's because the pieces of charcoal are uneven and how they are stacked in the basket. Pretty much unavoidable unless you light the charcoal in multiple spots and cross your fingers that they burn towards each other. 

I usually have to move food around on the grate to get even cooking (if I'm using the rotisserie) as there are almost always hot spots to deal with. 

Thank you @tony b 

It is odd, I will see if overshooting my target during warm up (600f) will make any difference. Luckily it came down pretty quickly, since it didnt have a chance to fully soak.   I lite with a blow torch in 3 spots as well. 
Also splitting the bottom vents between the two registers thinking that could have something to do with it.  

[DennisLinkletter]

No such thing as even or uneven burning..  If you are cooking indirect it does not matter where the charcoal is burning only the volume lit.  You only need to light only one place.
The only reason to light three places is if you are grilling and need all the charcoal to be burning..

 

[Dennis]

3 hours ago, DennisLinkletter said:

No such thing as even or uneven burning..  If you are cooking indirect it does not matter where the charcoal is burning only the volume lit.  You only need to light only one place.
The only reason to light three places is if you are grilling and need all the charcoal to be burning..

 

Outside of semantics - half my charcoal basket extinguished itself during the cook, after being lit.  The firebox doesn’t care if it indirect or direct.

 Why?  Did the fire go out? Never had this in my prior 20 years with the BGE.  So maybe we need to understand better process’s. 
Is it a build up of ash where the air vents are?  Would be great to see more set up’s and cooks @DennisLinkletter from our pro.  

I did clean out the ash and let the lite go way past my target and it seems my charcoal had a much more even burn.  It was too hot to really check tonight - will take pics in the AM.

Check out the bark and color on these beef short ribs!  Thats all that matters!

 

[David Chang]

@Dennis in rare cases where charcoal has gone out on me, it's with used charcoal (already lit then snuffed) and the charcoal has been sitting around in the open absorbing moisture for a while. but i assume you are using new and fresh charcoal? what brand is it?

[Dennis]

31 minutes ago, David Chang said:

@Dennis in rare cases where charcoal has gone out on me, it's with used charcoal (already lit then snuffed) and the charcoal has been sitting around in the open absorbing moisture for a while. but i assume you are using new and fresh charcoal? what brand is it?

@David Chang good question however, it is fresh lump kept indoors and dry.  I use Rockwood lump and believe it’s top rated by naked wiz.  Thanks David 

[tekobo]

9 hours ago, Dennis said:

Outside of semantics - half my charcoal basket extinguished itself during the cook, after being lit.

That is odd but it may be that semantics do matter.  I can light my KK but if the fire doesn't take properly I can come back in 10-20 minutes to a cold KK.  When you say half the charcoal basket was lit, was it actually burning away and then just stopped?  

9 hours ago, Dennis said:

I did clean out the ash and let the lite go way past my target and it seems my charcoal had a much more even burn.  It was too hot to really check tonight - will take pics in the AM.

Check out the bark and color on these beef short ribs!  Thats all that matters!

Yes, getting the quality of cook that you are looking for is indeed a big part of what matters but we do worry about other stuff too - we wouldn't own a KK if we didn't care about getting good quality and service.  If my KK was using too much lump or didn't hold a steady temperature I would worry.  I don't worry about uneven burn and actually like the fact that I can light the charcoal in one spot, get to the temp that I want, snuff the fire out and come back the next day to a largely unburnt basket.  

[Dennis]

6 hours ago, David Chang said:

@Dennis in rare cases where charcoal has gone out on me, it's with used charcoal (already lit then snuffed) and the charcoal has been sitting around in the open absorbing moisture for a while. but i assume you are using new and fresh charcoal? what brand is it?

@David Chang good question however, it is fresh lump kept indoors and dry.  

[DennisLinkletter]

Everything is airflow..  My mantra is  "Charcoal always burns at the maximum volume for the given airflow."
If it's not hot enough, open the damper top.  It's too hot, close it a bit. 

If your fire went out and it was not an issue with the moisture content of the charcoal it did not have enough oxygen to burn. I'm guessing the top was too tight/closed and the exhaust was not getting out. For 235º the top is barely cracked, and it's easy to close it too much and kill your burn.. We've all done it.  I usually put my hands near the damper top to feel for the hot air if there is no smoke to see.  I drive my cooks from the damper top.. If it's not leaving the top, it's not getting in the lower draft door. The vacuum is from the hot air exiting. 

[Dennis]

1 hour ago, DennisLinkletter said:

Everything is airflow..  My mantra is  "Charcoal always burns at the maximum volume for the given airflow."
If it's not hot enough, open the damper top.  It's too hot, close it a bit. 

If your fire went out and it was not an issue with the moisture content of the charcoal it did not have enough oxygen to burn. I'm guessing the top was too tight/closed and the exhaust was not getting out. For 235º the top is barely cracked, and it's easy to close it too much and kill your burn.. We've all done it.  I usually put my hands near the damper top to feel for the hot air if there is no smoke to see.  I drive my cooks from the damper top.. If it's not leaving the top, it's not getting in the lower draft door. The vacuum is from the hot air exiting. 

Thanks @DennisLinkletter
For clarity, the fire never went out.  Never had trouble starting the kk or holding temps, my point is that the coal burn was on one side of the firebox in-spite of my lighting the entire basket at the end of a 5 hour cook.   Of course it’s understood that we will only burn the amount of coal required for the cook.  However with a grill at this caliber we are looking for a precise temp and uniform heat distribution without having to move around our proteins to cook evenly.  
Hence, the query on the forum since the KK is a different beast and the forum is a place to learn from folks with over a dozen years with the KK, where others have experienced the same. Most of us have experience with Kamado style cookers prior to owning a KK, mine is over 20 years with the BGE, so most understand the basics in draft control.   Dialing in best practices will come, just trying to shorten the learning curve.  

18 hours ago, David Chang said:

@Dennis in rare cases where charcoal has gone out on me, it's with used charcoal (already lit then snuffed) and the charcoal has been sitting around in the open absorbing moisture for a while. but i assume you are using new and fresh charcoal? what brand is it?

@David Chang good question however, it is fresh lump kept indoors and dry.  

[Tyrus]

Charcoal is illusive, finding a store brand with the idea it's going to be a reliable source might be hard to match up to all your expectations in the KK. A fresh open bag vs one open and sitting to the humid air is a concern, but another of a better quality may give you better results. Also, positioning...taking the time to orient your coals so they catch from one to the other is sometime over looked for just a quick dump in the hopper. It's best to distribute medium size pieces to large for long cooks and adjust because your airflow is on your side.

[remi]

I feel like there are issues here which are perhaps not being completely understood by those commenting?

The charcoal in Dennis' short rib cook did not extinguish- his only concern is that the burn was uneven. As Dennis L has said, in a low and slow/ indirect cook there is no reason to be concerned about how even a burn is... the end result is exactly the same. The heat distribution is even in an indirect cook- the whole KK is heat soaked, and which bits of charcoal are lit doesn't much matter. I've certainly never sat there 'reading the charcoal' after a long low and slow cook!

As Dennis L has said- different issue if you are cooking with direct heat when you are grilling over the charcoal. In that case you've usually lit lots of spots, and things progress hot and fast, and you can see the fire (as you are grilling), so you won't have a problem!

I've only ever had a single episode of my charcoal actually going out on a low and slow cook (a different issue from Dennis' problem above). In that case it was a low and slow cook, and I had lit a fist full of charcoal roughly 1/3rds from the left edge of the basket- and quite bizarrely it burnt gradually towards the left of the basket, and having burnt all of the charcoal in that spot, then there was no way back to get to the other 2/3rds of the basket.... So now I'm more likely to light towards one edge when cooking low and slow (especially if overnight when I never get up to check!)

[Dennis]

10 hours ago, Tyrus said:

Charcoal is illusive, finding a store brand with the idea it's going to be a reliable source might be hard to match up to all your expectations in the KK. A fresh open bag vs one open and sitting to the humid air is a concern, but another of a better quality may give you better results. Also, positioning...taking the time to orient your coals so they catch from one to the other is sometime over looked for just a quick dump in the hopper. It's best to distribute medium size pieces to large for long cooks and adjust because your airflow is on your side.

@Tyrus as stated in last communication, the lump coal is not the issue at all.  Its the best rated lump and was just opened.  The coal was started actually very easily and I had no problem ramping to target temp.  Just not happy about the only part of the basket that was active in my relatively short 5 hr cook was on one side.  

[Dennis]

10 hours ago, remi said:

I feel like there are issues here which are perhaps not being completely understood by those commenting?

The charcoal in Dennis' short rib cook did not extinguish- his only concern is that the burn was uneven. As Dennis L has said, in a low and slow/ indirect cook there is no reason to be concerned about how even a burn is... the end result is exactly the same. The heat distribution is even in an indirect cook- the whole KK is heat soaked, and which bits of charcoal are lit doesn't much matter. I've certainly never sat there 'reading the charcoal' after a long low and slow cook!

As Dennis L has said- different issue if you are cooking with direct heat when you are grilling over the charcoal. In that case you've usually lit lots of spots, and things progress hot and fast, and you can see the fire (as you are grilling), so you won't have a problem!

I've only ever had a single episode of my charcoal actually going out on a low and slow cook (a different issue from Dennis' problem above). In that case it was a low and slow cook, and I had lit a fist full of charcoal roughly 1/3rds from the left edge of the basket- and quite bizarrely it burnt gradually towards the left of the basket, and having burnt all of the charcoal in that spot, then there was no way back to get to the other 2/3rds of the basket.... So now I'm more likely to light towards one edge when cooking low and slow (especially if overnight when I never get up to check!)

Thank you @remi  to your point this is what made my experience odd to me as I did light in 3 spots across the whole basket.  And  after reading the commentary, that maybe unnecessary.  Perhaps to Dennis L point it won't make any difference as long as it does not go out completely during a long overnight low and slow cook.  The draft was open on the top enough to hit target temp and control easily.  I'm not a newbie to this style of cooking and very comfortable with draft control.  To that end I intentionally used both left and right lower vent adjustments for that reason, thinking maybe I am having a draft issue, cracking one side.

On the last cook I lit the basket the same way and let the ramp go to 600F which happened very quickly then shut down to target settings.  Luckily the KK was not heat soaked yet and allowed for a fairly quick drop to my target temp, no chasing involved.   Now what's interesting, when I looked at the basket this time following the cook albeit only 4 hrs. the basket burned evenly across.  BTW I was using the KK Smoker so it was very obvious the top was open appropriately allowing for the smoke to exhaust out the top vent. 

Hey these KK's are beasts and I am only trying to dial in their idiosyncrasies'.  I know it will happen and with the input from those on this forum with over a decade of experience.  

Edited April 15 by Dennis

[Cheesehead_Griller]

@Dennis I had similar problems for a while when I first got my KK. It was super frustrating for me. However, I found a very simple solution. I know fill a charcoal chimney with lump. Once the lump is red hot, and going strong, I pour those hot coals over the entire charcoal basket. I can now burn a complete basket of lump and avoid these dead spots.  For small cooks it isn't too big of an issue. I had the most issues on longer cooks where I needed the whole basket to burn and it wouldn't. 

I also now only use the Fogo Premium; not XL. Sometimes those XL chunks just wouldn't burn. 

[Dennis]

16 hours ago, Cheesehead_Griller said:

@Dennis I had similar problems for a while when I first got my KK. It was super frustrating for me. However, I found a very simple solution. I know fill a charcoal chimney with lump. Once the lump is red hot, and going strong, I pour those hot coals over the entire charcoal basket. I can now burn a complete basket of lump and avoid these dead spots.  For small cooks it isn't too big of an issue. I had the most issues on longer cooks where I needed the whole basket to burn and it wouldn't. 

I also now only use the Fogo Premium; not XL. Sometimes those XL chunks just wouldn't burn. 

Thank you @Cheesehead_Griller perhaps by letting the KK ramp up to 600F accomplished the same as your technique with charcoal chimney?  
Next time I will light from the center only and see how it goes.  

My concern is the same as you stated on long slow cooks.   Next test...

[Cheesehead_Griller]

3 hours ago, Dennis said:

Thank you @Cheesehead_Griller perhaps by letting the KK ramp up to 600F accomplished the same as your technique with charcoal chimney?  
Next time I will light from the center only and see how it goes.  

My concern is the same as you stated on long slow cooks.   Next test...

You can certainly let t ramp up to 600F. However, it may get a bit high and not come back down to your desired temp in time. This is why I switched my method. A nice even layer of hot coals across the entire basket seems to work well. 

 

https://tmgpits.com/products/tmg-torch-charcoal-chimney

Edited April 16 by Cheesehead_Griller

[DennisLinkletter]

On 4/15/2024 at 4:57 AM, Dennis said:

Thanks @DennisLinkletter
For clarity, the fire never went out.  Never had trouble starting the kk or holding temps, my point is that the coal burn was on one side of the firebox in-spite of my lighting the entire basket at the end of a 5 hour cook.   Of course it’s understood that we will only burn the amount of coal required for the cook.  However with a grill at this caliber we are looking for a precise temp and uniform heat distribution without having to move around our proteins to cook evenly.  
Hence, the query on the forum since the KK is a different beast and the forum is a place to learn from folks with over a dozen years with the KK, where others have experienced the same. Most of us have experience with Kamado style cookers prior to owning a KK, mine is over 20 years with the BGE, so most understand the basics in draft control.   Dialing in best practices will come, just trying to shorten the learning curve.  

  On the last cook I lit the basket the same way and let the ramp go to 600F which happened very quickly then shut down to target settings. 

Please excuse this delay, I wrote this out last night and then closed the window by accident and lost it.. Did not have it in me to start again!

Dennis.. I'm sorry to say you probably need to forget everything you know about controlling temps from your last Kamado. It did not have forced airflow because of the gap between the firebox and the grill wall. With glazed pot grills, air goes around the firebox and through the charcoal.  In your KK, all the air is forced through the charcoal. The hot air leaving the damper top crates vacuum, which sucks fresh air through the front door and forces it through the charcoal. Air will always take the path of least resistance and will find the best way to feed the burn.. even or uneven, it all has to do with the resistance/how the air travels through the charcoal.  Once your charcoal is burning, you can almost forget the lower draft door settings for low and slow unless it's completely closed.  I always use the pencil-sized hole on the right dial, but if the top is choked down, you can even open the lower vents all the way without affecting the airflow or temp. The volume of air entering the grill is only what is permitted to leave the top. Temperature is airflow, and the best way to limit the airflow is with the damper top. With pressure or vacuum, a lot of air can be sucked or blown through a very small hole. Likewise, with no vacuum or pressure a large hole will have no airflow.  Watching this video might help visualize the airflow differences.. Click on this
YouTube - Komodo Kamado Grill Basics

For low and slow cooks, the heat coming off the walls creates uniform heat distribution, not where in the basket or how many places the charcoal is burning. (high temp grilling yes)  For low and slow temps, you are only burning about a large orange volume of charcoal. It should be in one place, as there is not enough charcoal burning to distribute it around the basket. The heat rises, and the hot air hits the foil and is well distributed. (does not need any fancy gizmos designed by Harvard students-LOL)  As long as it does not directly hit your meat, you are good.  I do not suggest cooking on the lower grate with a 32 or 42 using the splitter to create indirect heat for a low slow cooks.  The walls on the far side down below will not be properly heat-soaked.  I always light my low and slow cooks in the middle of the charcoal basket, but don't worry where the burn ends up. 
I do not suggest heating your grill to 600º first if you plan to cook low and slow. Once you know your damper top setting is for, let's say 235º, light your charcoal, set your top, forget it, and walk away.  The damper top settings will always be the same. Actually, they will be the same after the damper top rope gets flattened and hard; when you first get your grill, the rope is flat, and as it breaks in, your settings will change a bit, but once flat, they will be the same always.   I do suggest taking notes about your cooks, but the most important thing is to have fun with it!

[Dennis]

17 hours ago, DennisLinkletter said:

Please excuse this delay, I wrote this out last night and then closed the window by accident and lost it.. Did not have it in me to start again!

Dennis.. I'm sorry to say you probably need to forget everything you know about controlling temps from your last Kamado. It did not have forced airflow because of the gap between the firebox and the grill wall. With glazed pot grills, air goes around the firebox and through the charcoal.  In your KK, all the air is forced through the charcoal. The hot air leaving the damper top crates vacuum, which sucks fresh air through the front door and forces it through the charcoal. Air will always take the path of least resistance and will find the best way to feed the burn.. even or uneven, it all has to do with the resistance/how the air travels through the charcoal.  Once your charcoal is burning, you can almost forget the lower draft door settings for low and slow unless it's completely closed.  I always use the pencil-sized hole on the right dial, but if the top is choked down, you can even open the lower vents all the way without affecting the airflow or temp. The volume of air entering the grill is only what is permitted to leave the top. Temperature is airflow, and the best way to limit the airflow is with the damper top. With pressure or vacuum, a lot of air can be sucked or blown through a very small hole. Likewise, with no vacuum or pressure a large hole will have no airflow.  Watching this video might help visualize the airflow differences.. Click on this
YouTube - Komodo Kamado Grill Basics

For low and slow cooks, the heat coming off the walls creates uniform heat distribution, not where in the basket or how many places the charcoal is burning. (high temp grilling yes)  For low and slow temps, you are only burning about a large orange volume of charcoal. It should be in one place, as there is not enough charcoal burning to distribute it around the basket. The heat rises, and the hot air hits the foil and is well distributed. (does not need any fancy gizmos designed by Harvard students-LOL)  As long as it does not directly hit your meat, you are good.  I do not suggest cooking on the lower grate with a 32 or 42 using the splitter to create indirect heat for a low slow cooks.  The walls on the far side down below will not be properly heat-soaked.  I always light my low and slow cooks in the middle of the charcoal basket, but don't worry where the burn ends up. 
I do not suggest heating your grill to 600º first if you plan to cook low and slow. Once you know your damper top setting is for, let's say 235º, light your charcoal, set your top, forget it, and walk away.  The damper top settings will always be the same. Actually, they will be the same after the damper top rope gets flattened and hard; when you first get your grill, the rope is flat, and as it breaks in, your settings will change a bit, but once flat, they will be the same always.   I do suggest taking notes about your cooks, but the most important thing is to have fun with it!

My turn to apologize for a delayed reply to your very thoughtful post.  
I am away on business travel and have a couple of questions and will post later this week.  
Thank you @Dennis L.