introduction UK Member

[tekobo]

Tee hee.  This forum is particularly good at assisting you with finding new ways to empty your wallet.

So, I think I have grown up and become you.  Our (max) five times a year barbecuing habit was because we turned it into an event with our Argentianian BBQ - burning wood to create the embers to lay under the food.  The KKs have made life a lot easier and I light one or two up at the drop of a hat. 

I live with my husband and four cats.   The cats are on a raw food diet so I imagine our day to day cooked food needs are similar to yours.  Most times I get by with one KK.  A quick firing up to cook some wings for one or a recent dinner with three friends where I cooked brisket low and slow through the afternoon, added pork ribs part way through and then put my friend's son's mac n cheese to cook alongside the ribs while the brisket was resting.  All perfectly easy and I didn't need anything more than my faithful 21".

However, it doesn't take much to make it worth extending to two KKs.  Some examples here:

Sunday lunch with the in-laws.  Nothing special but convenient be able to roti alongside the side cook.

Japanese dinner for eight.  This cook was early on in my ownership of the KKs and it convinced me of their versatility.  I could have sworn that I used both KKs but I really cannot tell from the close up photos.

And here I argue against myself, showing what you can do on a 23 - two fat ducks, followed by a klafoutis dessert.  I was less brave then and the sides were cooked indoors.  Now, I would cook them on the other KK.  

 

Both KKs come into their own when we have parties.  We had an all day party for 100 in the summer.  The 21 held its own through the day, smoking two lots of brisket while I got friends to help with regular cooks of wings and sausages on the 23 through the day.  That is an extreme example but I would do the same for 20 if I wanted grilled bites alongside low n slow.  A single 23 could well be fine for your needs but I'd go for two KKs over most any other cooker option, any day of the week.  

Supplies?  I buy cocoshell briquettes from : https://www.macsbbq.com/charcoals/proq-cocoshell-briquettes.  I buy 25 at a time and they come to £17.20 per box delivered.  Haven't tried anything else for regular KK cooks and would be interested in your experience with Lord Logs.

Jealous of your ODK plans.  Here I have a make shift space in the garden.  Trouble is, I can't quite make the decision to swap plant space for more kitchen space and I can't, quite, get used to the idea of moving to the country to get the space I need.  

Thanks for posting, looking forward to following your journey. 

[tony b]

@Braai-Q - I'm sure that you've looked already, but just in case, there are several discussion threads on here with pictures of folks ODK set ups. Many feature multiple KKs, along with other cooking appliances. Might give you some ideas. 

 

[Braai-Q]

On 4/29/2019 at 8:25 PM, tekobo said:

Tee hee.  This forum is particularly good at assisting you with finding new ways to empty your wallet.

So, I think I have grown up and become you.  Our (max) five times a year barbecuing habit was because we turned it into an event with our Argentianian BBQ - burning wood to create the embers to lay under the food.  The KKs have made life a lot easier and I light one or two up at the drop of a hat. 

I live with my husband and four cats.   The cats are on a raw food diet so I imagine our day to day cooked food needs are similar to yours.  Most times I get by with one KK.  A quick firing up to cook some wings for one or a recent dinner with three friends where I cooked brisket low and slow through the afternoon, added pork ribs part way through and then put my friend's son's mac n cheese to cook alongside the ribs while the brisket was resting.  All perfectly easy and I didn't need anything more than my faithful 21".

However, it doesn't take much to make it worth extending to two KKs.  Some examples here:

Sunday lunch with the in-laws.  Nothing special but convenient be able to roti alongside the side cook.

Japanese dinner for eight.  This cook was early on in my ownership of the KKs and it convinced me of their versatility.  I could have sworn that I used both KKs but I really cannot tell from the close up photos.

And here I argue against myself, showing what you can do on a 23 - two fat ducks, followed by a klafoutis dessert.  I was less brave then and the sides were cooked indoors.  Now, I would cook them on the other KK.  

 

Both KKs come into their own when we have parties.  We had an all day party for 100 in the summer.  The 21 held its own through the day, smoking two lots of brisket while I got friends to help with regular cooks of wings and sausages on the 23 through the day.  That is an extreme example but I would do the same for 20 if I wanted grilled bites alongside low n slow.  A single 23 could well be fine for your needs but I'd go for two KKs over most any other cooker option, any day of the week.  

Supplies?  I buy cocoshell briquettes from : https://www.macsbbq.com/charcoals/proq-cocoshell-briquettes.  I buy 25 at a time and they come to £17.20 per box delivered.  Haven't tried anything else for regular KK cooks and would be interested in your experience with Lord Logs.

Jealous of your ODK plans.  Here I have a make shift space in the garden.  Trouble is, I can't quite make the decision to swap plant space for more kitchen space and I can't, quite, get used to the idea of moving to the country to get the space I need.  

Thanks for posting, looking forward to following your journey. 

Thanks Kemi. Wow. Reading your thread before breakfast wasn't advisable. In fact, spending any time on this forum results in me wanting to BBQ everything. Including my coffee! 

We're never going to cater for anything like that number of people but I do buy the argument of two grills, two temperatures. I hadn't thought of that. I've tended to use different levels to control temperature in the way you would an Argentine grill - moving the cooking surface further away from the heat source or shielding the heat source with a heat deflector per the charcoal splitter. I had actually thought about getting an Ox Grill for the outdoor kitchen but you hit the nail on the head with the burning the wood to get to the point of being able to use the heat source. It's a bit more hassle and hunter gathered than my schedule allows. I'd prefer to keep the 19" versus buying one of those being honest. 

Thanks for the tip on the cocoshell, it's a funny old world. I got in touch and realised that Ian who started MacsBBQ and is ProQ is actually Zimbabwean like me. I've ordered 150KG to go in the cart lodge and it arrives tomorrow. The briquettes make a lot of sense as I end up with debris and broken pieces when the lump wood bags are knocked about. Now that I have that connection, I think I'll have a chat about a group buy discount - Zimbabweans are known for making a plan and doing a deal so if you know how much you use a year, I'll see what I can do. Even if we get a retrospective discount on volume when we trigger a certain level. 

We're big fans of Japanese food and my wife is adept at Okonomiyaki to the point that a Japanese friend of ours who is a formidable cook commented that it was as good as anything she has ever eaten in Osaka (where the dish originates). We bought a CDS Tepanyaki Grill which is engineered to the same standards as KK so I'd highly recommend the addition. I've linked to the US site in case you don't speak German (and for the benefit of our many US friends on the forum who may be tempted too). It's a superb product and happy to share pictures/thoughts if anyone reading would like more information. I can also recommend a number of Japanese cookbooks which are excellent or if you're looking for something specific, hit me up and I'll look through them for you. I have a cookbook purchasing problem among the many other vices which work to deplete my bank balance. 🤪

My ODK plans are changing and I have to have a think on what they're going to resolve to. We're having to move budget around as we have a lot of work to do at our property but constraints can be helpful in prioritising what is actually important. 

Better get on with some work. 

 

 

[Braai-Q]

On 4/29/2019 at 9:19 PM, tony b said:

@Braai-Q - I'm sure that you've looked already, but just in case, there are several discussion threads on here with pictures of folks ODK set ups. Many feature multiple KKs, along with other cooking appliances. Might give you some ideas. 

 

Thanks Tony, that's kind and very helpful. I go down rabbit holes on this forum and am easily distracted so this is a great cheat sheet. I started out looking at Kemi's reply on Japanese food, looked up something that I thought might work and realised I didn't have any so ordered it, then I had to leave for London and just got back. 😂

[tekobo]

On 5/2/2019 at 9:58 AM, Braai-Q said:

I had actually thought about getting an Ox Grill for the outdoor kitchen but you hit the nail on the head with the burning the wood to get to the point of being able to use the heat source. It's a bit more hassle and hunter gathered than my schedule allows. I'd prefer to keep the 19" versus buying one of those being honest. 

Result!  I do hope you get to keep both KKs and build them into your new ODK.  I have no doubt that the KK forum went into a collective silent scream when you suggested moving a KK on.  

On 5/2/2019 at 9:58 AM, Braai-Q said:

We bought a CDS Tepanyaki Grill which is engineered to the same standards as KK so I'd highly recommend the addition. I've linked to the US site in case you don't speak German (and for the benefit of our many US friends on the forum who may be tempted too). It's a superb product and happy to share pictures/thoughts if anyone reading would like more information. I can also recommend a number of Japanese cookbooks which are excellent or if you're looking for something specific, hit me up and I'll look through them for you.

Funny.  I do speak German and love cooking Japanese.  Current kick is trying out recipes from this donabe book https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00TCI531C/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_sbeZCbZ3J0RWF  and latest purchase is a table top burner for cooking hot pots.  Will ride this horse one for a while before considering teppanyaki although I must say that it looks like a beautiful piece of kit.   I too am a cookbook freak and would be interested in your Japanese top 5.  

I'll be interested to know how you find the coco char briquettes.  I buy 250kg at a time and that lasts me about a year.  I just had a delivery a month ago so won't be needing any more for a while.  Also interested in how good a discount you get with your Zimbabwean connection!

[Braai-Q]

15 hours ago, tekobo said:

Result!  I do hope you get to keep both KKs and build them into your new ODK.  I have no doubt that the KK forum went into a collective silent scream when you suggested moving a KK on.  

I think my wife will go into a not so silent scream when I mention that I've been looking at the 32" versus 23". Currently thinking I might try the 'I made a mistake on the order form' approach.... I really meant 2 and 3 not 3 and 2.... Then keeping the 19" as well. 😃

15 hours ago, tekobo said:

Funny.  I do speak German and love cooking Japanese.  Current kick is trying out recipes from this donabe book https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00TCI531C/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_sbeZCbZ3J0RWF  and latest purchase is a table top burner for cooking hot pots.  Will ride this horse one for a while before considering teppanyaki although I must say that it looks like a beautiful piece of kit.   I too am a cookbook freak and would be interested in your Japanese top 5.  

The CDS is great. What I like is the fact that it becomes concave under heat so the oil/content pools to the centre and when it cools, it returns to a complete flat surface. The KK school of engineering. If you go there, get a CDS. 😎

Top 5 are difficult when it comes to cook books and particularly Japanese as there are some which are devoted to regional foods, specific cuisines, specific styles and so forth. I sometimes find ingredients can be a challenge - buying authentic books means that you need authentic ingredients. It generally works out cheaper buying authentic ingredients and the quality is better but packaging is all in Japanese. I don't speak Japanese other than social niceties but I am at sea with the written language. I also find that you tend to have to buy quantities that put you into a specific genre for a week of that style otherwise you waste a lot of ingredients. Bonito/Katsuoboshi flakes are a classic example - I've ended up buying a block of Katsuoboshi from Japan (Toykodirect.co.uk is very useful) and have a box shaver but there are actually hundreds of styles and profiles of Bonito so authenticity can be a minefield. The flavours for certain styles of Japanese cuisine can be so delicately balanced as to ruin a dish with a substandard ingredient in my experience.

I'd suggest the following (in no particular order):

Japanese Soul Cooking

Japan: The Cookbook (I'd call this the Japanese equivalent of 'The Silver Spoon') 

The Japanese Grill

Japanese Cooking: A Simple Art

In looking at the book shelf, it's not Japanese, more Middle Eastern influence - Artichoke but I think you might appreciate. Have a look at his website, hopefully you see what I mean.

15 hours ago, tekobo said:

I'll be interested to know how you find the coco char briquettes.  I buy 250kg at a time and that lasts me about a year.  I just had a delivery a month ago so won't be needing any more for a while.  Also interested in how good a discount you get with your Zimbabwean connection!

The coco char briquettes got their first run out last night. I did two Mozambique Peri Peri spatchcock chicken and it worked beautifully. I am liking the extruded briquette format, while I have plenty of space, bags of lump wood are cumbersome to store. Flavour profile was very neutral so am thinking that I need to consider smoking options sticking with coco char.

Will let you know on discounts but suspect we're not offering enough volume unless we can get a reasonable group buy going. Any other UK members who might be interested?

[ckreef]

2 hours ago, Braai-Q said:

I think my wife will go into a not so silent scream when I mention that I've been looking at the 32" versus 23". Currently thinking I might try the 'I made a mistake on the order form' approach.... I really meant 2 and 3 not 3 and 2.... Then keeping the 19" as well. 😃

 

That's not a bad plan. 

For an alternate plan threaten your wife with the 42" for a few months. Just don't stop talking about the 42" and showing her pictures. When you order the 32" instead she'll be relieved

 

[Braai-Q]

7 minutes ago, ckreef said:

 

That's not a bad plan. 

For an alternate plan threaten your wife with the 42" for a few months. Just don't stop talking about the 42" and showing her pictures. When you order the 32" instead she'll be relieved

 

Oh you're good. The old aim above the mark to hit the mark tactic. Hahah! 😃

[DennisLinkletter]

 

8 hours ago, ckreef said:

 

That's not a bad plan. 

For an alternate plan threaten your wife with the 42" for a few months. Just don't stop talking about the 42" and showing her pictures. When you order the 32" instead she'll be relieved

 

I've been helping men fulfill their dreams for quite some time now..
I always suggest tracking down a photo of a huge used, rusty offset cooker that looks like a big ol' choo-choo train.. 
Leave it on your desktop when you go to work in the morning..
She will be thrilled when you are back looking at KK's

[Pequod]

9 hours ago, ckreef said:

 

That's not a bad plan. 

For an alternate plan threaten your wife with the 42" for a few months. Just don't stop talking about the 42" and showing her pictures. When you order the 32" instead she'll be relieved

 

This tactic worked for me!

[Braai-Q]

8 minutes ago, DennisLinkletter said:

 

I've been helping men fulfill their dreams for quite some time now..
I always suggest tracking down a photo of a huge used, rusty offset cooker that looks like a big ol' choo-choo train.. 
Leave it on your desktop when you go to work in the morning..
She will be thrilled when you are back looking at KK's

More subversive tactics! 😃 I might have to dry run my pitch to the forum for constructive feedback as you're all full of bright ideas. 

@DennisLinkletter I've not been in touch as I think we've gone from the 23" to the 32" which had nothing to do with the forum's influence of course. I don't think another week will see us going to the 42" though. 

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by Braai-Q

[MacKenzie]

Oh to be a woman and just order what you like. 

[Wahoo]

Welcome back to the forum Alex , I have two a 23” Ultimate Terra Blue and a Met Bronze SBB but No pebbles round ere .

Your welcome to come see them anytime if you are in Derbyshire before you decide.

I am on them most days so you are very likely getting a dinner if you are local.

The 23” is plenty big enough for most gatherings and cooks I find , but I just can’t help myself so got the SBB too , I’m an embarrassment to myself sometimes .

Looking fwd to the ODK pics !

Wahoo .

[tekobo]

15 hours ago, MacKenzie said:

Oh to be a woman and just order what you like. 

I agree!  I work and could afford to buy a KK myself but am happy that I got to order and The Husband got to pay.  Winner, winner, chicken dinner.  Might have to find the money myself if I decide to trade up to a 42 though!  

[tekobo]

On 5/4/2019 at 7:49 AM, Braai-Q said:

The CDS is great. What I like is the fact that it becomes concave under heat so the oil/content pools to the centre and when it cools, it returns to a complete flat surface. The KK school of engineering. If you go there, get a CDS. 😎

That sounds way too cool to ignore.  Damn!  

Here is one for the hunter gatherer in you Alex: An Argentinian grill could well be a good complement to your KK(s).  The one we used to have came direct from Argentinia and was a rust bucket.  These guys in Norfolk make Argentinian grills to drool over: http://www.solusgrills.com.  Just saying.  In case you want to design your ODK with a future, yet to be discussed, purchase in mind. 

Thanks for the Japanese book and stockist recommendations.  Will investigate both.  I hadn't got into the level of quality that sees you shaving your own bonito flakes but I can see that is a new world to explore.  How to solve the problem of buying specialist ingredients and not using them up in time?  Dedicate a month to one type of cuisine and go all in.  Helped me get to know my books, kit and use up the stuff I bought.  This year I am, sort of, dedicating the whole year to Japanese and Italian cuisine.  Yum.  

 

 

[tony b]

5 hours ago, tekobo said:

Here is one for the hunter gatherer in you Alex: An Argentinian grill could well be a good complement to your KK(s).  The one we used to have came direct from Argentinia and was a rust bucket.  These guys in Norfolk make Argentinian grills to drool over: http://www.solusgrills.com.  Just saying.  In case you want to design your ODK with a future, yet to be discussed, purchase in mind. 

Kemi, you are baaad, gurl! 

[Braai-Q]

10 hours ago, tekobo said:

That sounds way too cool to ignore.  Damn!  

Here is one for the hunter gatherer in you Alex: An Argentinian grill could well be a good complement to your KK(s).  The one we used to have came direct from Argentinia and was a rust bucket.  These guys in Norfolk make Argentinian grills to drool over: http://www.solusgrills.com.  Just saying.  In case you want to design your ODK with a future, yet to be discussed, purchase in mind. 

Thanks for the Japanese book and stockist recommendations.  Will investigate both.  I hadn't got into the level of quality that sees you shaving your own bonito flakes but I can see that is a new world to explore.  How to solve the problem of buying specialist ingredients and not using them up in time?  Dedicate a month to one type of cuisine and go all in.  Helped me get to know my books, kit and use up the stuff I bought.  This year I am, sort of, dedicating the whole year to Japanese and Italian cuisine.  Yum.  

 

 

Yeah, from my research, it's Solus or Ox Grills in the UK if you're going Argentine grill route but the ODK is drastically being de-scoped as a result of spending time in the forum. Hard to justify when the KK is so good and we open out on to rural countryside so the wind does pick up - having a covered cooker has some advantages. 

If of any interest, this video of making dried bonito is fascinating and I found it some while ago when trying to understand the differences between the different types and finishes. A friend of mine is married to a Japanese chef, admittedly patisserie but she pointed me in the direction of a shaver and educated me on the range of options available. Like Soy, buying really high quality of either really makes a difference in the dish. 

Care to share any recommendations on Japanese and Italian books/recipes (think I cook more Italian than anything else in fact). 😛

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Braai-Q

[Braai-Q]

12 hours ago, Wahoo said:

Welcome back to the forum Alex , I have two a 23” Ultimate Terra Blue and a Met Bronze SBB but No pebbles round ere .

Your welcome to come see them anytime if you are in Derbyshire before you decide.

I am on them most days so you are very likely getting a dinner if you are local.

The 23” is plenty big enough for most gatherings and cooks I find , but I just can’t help myself so got the SBB too , I’m an embarrassment to myself sometimes .

Looking fwd to the ODK pics !

Wahoo .



 

Thank you very much. I appreciate the offer, really kind and I may well take you up on it. My mother in law is from the Midlands - Nottingham way and her brother lives near Burton so a familiar and lovely part of the world. 

SBB as in a 42"? When I ordered mine in 2013/14, I felt like a member of a small, slightly nutty club in the UK who would commit to spending the sums required for a KK. I'm glad to not find myself alone, in fact, I think I'm a junior member of the club judging by the fact that everyone else in the UK has two! May I ask what you do with the 42" - personal or catering?

I came on to this forum with a 19" and was looking to upgrade to a 23" but I do a fair amount of grilling and the problem is that the surface area of the grill is finite and it's making me think that a 32" is going to be a good idea. Together with keeping the 19". 😁

 

[tony b]

17 hours ago, Braai-Q said:

Together with keeping the 19".

[tekobo]

Lots to report on.  First, I had not looked at the Ox Grill link that you provided @Braai-Q.  Their grills look really good.  I had not thought about the wind and the rain until you mentioned it.  Our old Argentinian grill was actually covered and neither Solus nor Ox Grill appear to offer a covered grill.  Having said that, it was the cover and casing that was forever needing a re-paint.  I have finally realised that I what I am looking for is an Argentinian grill, with a cover, built by Dennis.

Books.  What can I say?  First things first.  If you are a cookbook addict then you need eatyourbooks.com.  

Japanese go-to books are easy to identify.  Hashi, written by my teacher Reiko Hashimoto.  Interesting modern twists.  The Japanese Grill, same as you picked out and great for simple but very tasty grilling.  Donabe - lots of variety across the various donabe cooking techniques and lots of opportunities to improvise.  Finally a book that opened my eyes to the beauty of Japanese vegetable cookery - The Enlightened Kitchen.

Italian books are a bit more difficult.  Italian food is so much about simplicity and ingredients.  Warm burrata and sliced tomatoes with oil and basil in a New York loft is an experience that will be hard to beat.  The books that I love are less about what they contain and more about what they mean to me:

Truly Italian by Ursula Ferrigno.  This vegetarian book was given to this rabid carnivore by her vegetarian sock and sandal wearing boss when I was leaving my job on a rail electrification project with Railtrack.  It opened my eyes to what you can do with boring old veg.  I have since bought a pile of cheap second hand books by Ursula from different sellers on Amazon and I love them all.  

Polpo.  A celebrity restaurant cookbook that I chose to take with me on holiday to Italy.  It makes us laugh to this day.  We ate street food for most of the holiday but I set my heart on trying a recipe for cotechino, lentils and mostarda.  We wandered round the market in Padova trying to find the ingredients, only to be met with incomprehension.  Who were these strange people, trying to buy cotechino and lenticchie in May?  We learned that "seasonality" is not just a word to the Italians, it is a way of life.  We returned in December to find gorgonzola al cucchiaio AND all the ingredients for the cotechino recipe, at the right time of year for ingredients that would have spoiled in the pre-refridgeration heat of the summer.  

Ratio by Ruhlman.  Not an Italian cookbook but it was meant to free me from the tyranny of cookbooks by teaching me the formulae that underpin a lot of the food we eat.  Using it at the moment to try out different types of fresh pasta.

Anything River Cafe.  I thought this was just a chi chi restaurant until we took two ten year old boys there to celebrate getting into their secondary school of choice.  We have been there for every milestone since and are hoping, in August, to take T back to celebrate getting his law degree from Oxford.  The deal is that he pays for our milestone meals once he starts earning money as a hotshot lawyer. 

I am moving into reference books but am not quite there yet.  I have not yet got into The Essentials of Italian Cookery by Marcella Hazan but it comes highly recommended.  I am also waiting for my copy of The Silver Spoon, in Italian, to arrive and force me to improve both my cookery and my vocabulary.  What fun.