After over a decade of desire, I finally ordered my KK

[Basher]

Interesting Johnny.
The old gravlax salmon recipe has weight put on the salmon while refrigerated in a pot to push the liquids out of the protein. Ultimately it’s the salt that draws the moisture out.
I’ve started vac sealing the salmon and putting it under a box of beer. After 2- 3 days 90% of the moisture is drawn out.
My butcher sells a pineapple cured ham vac sealed with instructions to boil it…. No way, rinsed then cooked in the KK this ham is delicious.
Could kosher salt replace the salt Peta?
I’ll be interested to see how this looks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tekobo]

10 hours ago, Basher said:

Could kosher salt replace the salt Peta?

I don’t think so. Salt petre is potassium nitrate and not salt as we know it NaCl or sodium chloride.  Really interestingly, when I did a google search just now I found reference to the use of salt petre as a thickening agent in West African cooking.  You learn something new every day.  Here I am in the UK debating how safe it is to use small quantities of salt petre to make my salt beef come out pink in the middle when there is a chance that I consumed it in larger quantities in comforting childhood stews!

[tony b]

That's interesting @tekobo - I've never heard of using Saltpeter in cooking either, just for making gunpowder! For preserving meat to prevent spoilage or worse - botulism, one normally uses Sodium Nitrate. So, NO, you cannot replace Pink Salt #1,  (Sodium Nitrate) or Saltpeter with kosher salt. 

How to Use Pink Salt for Curing Meat (thespruceeats.com)

[johnnymnemonic]

A lot of modern stuff contains nitrates.  @tony b @tekoboone of the main reasons why you don't see potassium nitrate or saltpetre more often these days is that it is white and looks like table salt.  It was removed from mainstream food use because of this.  There were issues with it hurting people that mistook it for table salt and sprinkled it on their food directly and used it often in this manner. 

My bet is that somewhere you could find 'curing salt' that contained the proper proportion of potassium nitrate along with regular salt.  The most common is curing salt containing sodium nitrate (like the link you shared about pink curing salt).   Fun Fact, when I rubbed the meat, the salt and saltpeter started reacting and turning pink when exposed to moisture.

I am pretty sure that in my recipe that I just made, I could do 9 tablespoons of pink curing salt instead of 7 tablespoons of salt and 2 tablespoons of saltpeter and it would come out pretty much the same - same flavor and everything - so if you prefer to just get curing salt, that is fine. I just wanted to make my recipe the same as my "Nanny" used to make it.  

Pink curing salt is roughly 90% salt and 10% sodium nitrate, so the proportions in my recipe are probalby heavier than necessary on the saltpeter.  If I wanted to try to minimize, I would do something like 8 tablespoons of salt and 2 teaspoons of saltpeter to get it more in the same proportions with curing salt.  But I doubt that at either of these concentrations that it's detrimental to health in curing one roast.  Some of it goes into the meat but a lot of it goes down the drain when the meat gets washed before smoking.

Research I did before I made this recipe basically says meat that is cured with nitrates is not good for you in large quantities.  If you consume them once a month or something, it should be fine.  In other words there's no reason to worry about curing one roast and eating it.  There's definitely heart disease risk if you do it on a regular basis.   In general staying away from mass produced cured meat like corned beef, ham, bacon is a good idea.

With vacuum sealing there probably isn't any reason to even use it.  It just gives that nice pink color that lets you know you're eating corned beef/pastrami.
 

Potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate do the same thing and have the same health benefit/detriment.  I'm sure you could find bacon or ham products with potassium nitrate in it, although sodium nitrate is more common.

I would imagine the appearance of Sodium Nitrate is the same reason why you find pink curing salt, but it is hard to find sodium nitrate by itself.  It's probably white and looks like table salt.  You can confuse pink curing salt with himalayan salt as well, but himalayan salt is not pervasive, and the curing salt isn't pure sodium nitrate.  (90/10).

I just thought of this - maybe you don't see much (if any) curing salt with potassium nitrate because sodium nitrate does the exact same thing and is cheaper to manufacture?  IDK would be interesting to find out.
 

I had to go ahead and cook this thing b/c the refrigerator I kept it in had an issue.  It cured for about 6 days.  The first picture is how it looked after a couple hours on the smoker before I wrapped it.  The second is the final product.  It is delicious.  I think it would be better with a brisket.  But this comes out as a very similar texture as boiling it according to my grandmother's recipe, but tastes much better smoked.

 

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Edited July 22, 2021 by johnnymnemonic
add detail

[tekobo]

That looks gorgeous @johnnymnemonic.  Super nice to be re-creating, and bettering, a recipe from your childhood.

Your post sent me on a very quick trip down a rabbit hole.  I have a range of "chemicals" that I call on when curing meats.  Prague No 1 and Prague No 2 are both pink salts.  Checking on the ingredients from the brand that I use, No 1 is mostly kosher salt as you say but has 6.25% sodium nitrite.  No 2 contains 4.75% of potassium nitrate as well as the sodium nitrite.  The former is for short cures and latter for long cures.  I also have some saltpetre that I keep in deep store and only get out to use and measure on my drug dealer scales when a recipe calls for it. Saltpetre is the stuff that gets you noticed by the police if you order it in any quantity as it is a component in gunpowder.  All of that makes me wonder why I am putting any of this in my food?!  Eek.  

All good.  Measured carefully and consuming the resulting cured meats in moderation hasn't killed me, yet.  

[johnnymnemonic]

@tekoboI love geeking out on stuff like this.  HM I hope the police were not watching when I ordered a fair bit of saltpetre on amazon.  

[Syzygies]

On 7/22/2021 at 8:15 AM, tekobo said:

I also have some saltpetre that I keep in deep store and only get out to use and measure on my drug dealer scales when a recipe calls for it.

Ha! We use our drug dealer scale all the time. I'm told it's essential for formulating cola extracts. I use it to weigh yeast and salt for bread, or saffron for tagines.

I loved my trip to Morocco. I was cheated exactly once, in the most surprising setting:

    Hamid Fondouk li Houdi
   http://www.jaztravelweb.com/MOROCCO/Perfumery_%26_Herbalist.html

He was one of the most sophisticated gentlemen to take us into a shop. (After asking for the best spice shop, we were lead there by an official guide recommended by our hotel, but they probably had no idea what was about to transpire, and I am not going to tell them.) Along with other spices, my friend and I each purchased 5 grams of his highest quality saffron. He measured without hesitation by sight, with the authority one would expect from decades of practice. My friend then objected that this looked like less that five grams, so he moved over to an ancient balance scale probably not used since the Indiana Jones movies were filmed, and used an unmarked weight to demonstrate perfect balance. Like I said, decades of practice.

I got home, pulled out my drug dealer scale, and sure enough, measured 1.06 grams (not 5.00). Huh. I can easily afford the loss, and what little I have is great saffron. This was just deeply amusing. One doesn’t expect this from someone who proudly displays his picture taken with Bill Clinton. Or perhaps I am also naive about politics?

I fantasize about bringing a hidden camera, and getting him to cheat me again. He was too practiced for this to be a one-off. But one can actually be arrested for bringing such a scale into Morocco. They take the "drug dealer scale" bit seriously. What I should do instead is bring one and five gram weights, ready to use with his scale. He'll know at this point I'm a repeat customer.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Syzygies

[johnnymnemonic]

11 hours ago, Syzygies said:

What I should do instead is bring one and five gram weights, ready to use with his scale. He'll know at this point I'm a repeat customer.

Great idea / travel tip.  "unmarked weight".  Scales can be digital but the real truth is analog.

[Murph27]

18 hours ago, Syzygies said:

Ha! We use our drug dealer scale all the time. I'm told it's essential for formulating cola extracts. I use it to weigh yeast and salt for bread, or saffron for tagines.

I loved my trip to Morocco. I was cheated exactly once, in the most surprising setting:

    Hamid Fondouk li Houdi
   http://www.jaztravelweb.com/MOROCCO/Perfumery_%26_Herbalist.html

He was one of the most sophisticated gentlemen to take us into a shop. (After asking for the best spice shop, we were lead there by an official guide recommended by our hotel, but they probably had no idea what was about to transpire, and I am not going to tell them.) Along with other spices, my friend and I each purchased 5 grams of his highest quality saffron. He measured without hesitation by sight, with the authority one would expect from decades of practice. My friend then objected that this looked like less that five grams, so he moved over to an ancient balance scale probably not used since the Indiana Jones movies were filmed, and used an unmarked weight to demonstrate perfect balance. Like I said, decades of practice.

I got home, pulled out my drug dealer scale, and sure enough, measured 1.06 grams (not 5.00). Huh. I can easily afford the loss, and what little I have is great saffron. This was just deeply amusing. One doesn’t expect this from someone who proudly displays his picture taken with Bill Clinton. Or perhaps I am also naive about politics?

I fantasize about bringing a hidden camera, and getting him to cheat me again. He was too practiced for this to be a one-off. But one can actually be arrested for bringing such a scale into Morocco. They take the "drug dealer scale" bit seriously. What I should do instead is bring one and five gram weights, ready to use with his scale. He'll know at this point I'm a repeat customer.

Bring two 5g weights, to ensure the scale is calibrated.

[johnnymnemonic]

I've already said this in another comment but I figured I'd reply to the thread that I started.  I'm almost beside myself with excitement over this.  I ended up getting a cancellation for a 42" in the same color as my original 32" order.  So before long, I'll have my 42" SBB in Matte Black Pebble.   

Accessories: side tables with stainless steel, baking stone, smoke generator.

I should have it sometime in the next 2 weeks.  I will share unboxing, whatever name I give her, etc.

[tony b]

[johnnymnemonic]

~ September 8th!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dono]

AWESOME @johnnymnemonic!!  Very excited for you. Delivery day was pretty seamless.  It was really good to have the advice from the forum so I knew what to expect.  Can’t wait to see your pics!  

[johnnymnemonic]

11 hours ago, Dono said:

Delivery day was pretty seamless.  It was really good to have the advice from the forum so I knew what to expect.  Can’t wait to see your pics!  

@Donothank you! - I agree the forum is a great resource and such nice people.  I need to start reading about the delivery.  Mine should be relatively easy for the freight people, but I might need to go ahead and line up some help to unbox and roll it down out of the crate.

[johnnymnemonic]

Came up with the name for my 42 when it gets here.  "Deep Thought".  I bet a couple people on this forum will get that, instantly.

[C6Bill]

Rolling down off the crate shouldn't be too bad, I used 2 people for my 32 but I am sure i could have done it by myself. But don't forget to take lost of pictures !!!!!

 

[Dono]

On 9/1/2021 at 8:11 PM, C6Bill said:

Rolling down off the crate shouldn't be too bad, I used 2 people for my 32 but I am sure i could have done it by myself. But don't forget to take lost of pictures !!!!!

 

I agree with @C6Bill.  Had my 2 son-in-laws here to help with my 32. It was pretty easy going down.  Much easier than expected. I was stressing about it rolling down uncontrollably or tipping over. To me the hardest part was getting the legs and center support free. Getting the top crate off was definitely easier with 2.  

My big question after it was all done is what do I do with this very well built crate?

[tony b]

At least keep the pieces with the Kamado stamp on them. 

[MacKenzie]

Yes keep those boards with the Kamado stamp on them.

[johnnymnemonic]

I'm going to keep it all if I can @MacKenzie  @tony b.  I should have space somewhere to keep it so that I can rebuild it for moving.  (I don't anticipate moving any time soon but I also do not ever anticipate parting with my KK).  My KK is still stuck at anchor off long island.  I'm looking forward to posting a deluge of pictures.