Cold smoke milk?

[jeffshoaf]

Anyone used the cold smoker to smoke milk or cream? I assume liquid dairy would take on the smoke flavor since smoked cheese is a thing.

There's a tradition in my area of having chicken stews. It used to be a big thing at corn shuckings, barn raisings, and other events when family and/or community came together to help with some big task in the fall. There are a lot of variations in different regions, but around here, its usually stewed chicken that's deboned and added back to the broth, then brought to a boil with milk and cream in a big iron pot over an open wood fire. There's usually a thickening added along with plenty of salt and pepper. it usually picked up some smoke flavor from the wood fire. My father's family used to have one every year with all attendees contributing chicken and broth, but that's died out along with the older generations; I try to have one every year for the immediate family but don't have room for the extended family. A lot of the volunteer fire departments and churches have then add fund raisers now.

Anyway, I'll occasionally fix a small batch in the kitchen just for myself but it lacks that bit of wood smoke and I'd like to find a way to get it without so much work.

[remi]

When I was young and bored, some mates and I carbonated some milk... wouldn't recommend it.

[Tyrus]

If you stew up in the KK as I have done in the past, I generally leave the cover off with the addition of some fruit wood chunks adding some smoke flavor to the stew. Kinda like a slow simmer in smoke. Smoking milk on it's own isn't a draw at least for me because I can't dream of an end use. Let me ask, Are the corn shuckings a contest where the most amount of corn are shucked by a team or individual and a prize given to the winner?

[tekobo]

Your question sent me searching @jeffshoaf.  In his book Finding Fire, Lennox Hastie smokes cream.  I also found a post online about a recipe for Smoked Milk Ice cream by Ben Tish.  Both aim for a light smoke, use a shallow bowl  and both refrigerate overnight to develop the flavour.  I think the cold smoker would be ideal for the task.  Timing seems to be anything from 10 minutes to an hour in total but it does sound like you need to taste and test as you go along to decide when to stop.  

Thanks for the question. I already had the Lennox Hastie book and I liked Ben Tish but didn’t know him as a BBQ chef. Looking forward to exploring his book Grill Smoke BBQ.  Another place that does interesting stuff with fire and smoke is Etxebarri in Spain where Lennox Hastie learned his fire cooking craft.  I went there many years ago, before I started barbecuing, and was pretty excited then.  I suspect it would blow my mind if I were to return now.  So much to explore…

[tony b]

I'd give it a go. What do you have to lose?

[jeffshoaf]

5 hours ago, Tyrus said:

If you stew up in the KK as I have done in the past, I generally leave the cover off with the addition of some fruit wood chunks adding some smoke flavor to the stew. Kinda like a slow simmer in smoke. Smoking milk on it's own isn't a draw at least for me because I can't dream of an end use. Let me ask, Are the corn shuckings a contest where the most amount of corn are shucked by a team or individual and a prize given to the winner?

The corn shuckings were well before my time - they went away as farming automation came in and most farms around here moved to more profitable tobacco and only raised corn for the immediate family and animal feed. It was a way to get will-work-for-food community labor for big time sensitive jobs. I'm sure there were a lot of contests with various incentives.

I haven't considered making stew on the KK -- I wouldn't want to wrangle my 8  gallon cast iron pot onto it but the 8 qt one work. That being said, I'd be more likely to use the 8 qt one in the brick bed of my big Santa Maria grill just so I wouldn't have to bend over so far to stir and I could more easily manage the wood fire. Of course, cold smoking the milk and making the stew inside in the instant pot would be easier! I think that a lot of milk/cream based soups/stews/bisques would be enhanced with a touch of smoke.

Edited October 17, 2021 by jeffshoaf

[jeffshoaf]

4 hours ago, tekobo said:

Your question sent me searching @jeffshoaf.  In his book Finding Fire, Lennox Hastie smokes cream.  I also found a post online about a recipe for Smoked Milk Ice cream by Ben Tish.  Both aim for a light smoke, use a shallow bowl  and both refrigerate overnight to develop the flavour.  I think the cold smoker would be ideal for the task.  Timing seems to be anything from 10 minutes to an hour in total but it does sound like you need to taste and test as you go along to decide when to stop.  

Thanks for the question. I already had the Lennox Hastie book and I liked Ben Tish but didn’t know him as a BBQ chef. Looking forward to exploring his book Grill Smoke BBQ.  Another place that does interesting stuff with fire and smoke is Etxebarri in Spain where Lennox Hastie learned his fire cooking craft.  I went there many years ago, before I started barbecuing, and was pretty excited then.  I suspect it would blow my mind if I were to return now.  So much to explore…

I've watched several documentaries about Lennox and have taken inspiration from him (like grilling greens - it's always a struggle for me to Incorporate green leafy stuff into my meals since I'm not a fan of salads),  but haven't even thought to check to see if he has any books!

Hmmmm... This might be something to do with milk that's getting ready to expire (milk is one thing that I've found the "use by" dates to be pretty accurate) - smoke it and then freeze or dehydrate for future use in soups and stews.

I wonder if dehydrating and powdering and then smoking would work? That way, I'd only have to handle it in its liquid form once and there would be less risk of spoiling while smoking.... I haven't made powdered milk yet but I think my dehydrator's manual has instructions.

Edited October 17, 2021 by jeffshoaf

[jeffshoaf]

3 hours ago, tony b said:

I'd give it a go. What do you have to lose?

I have some milk that with a "use by" date of Tuesday and I do need to play with the cold smoker!

[tekobo]

1 hour ago, jeffshoaf said:

I wonder if dehydrating and powdering and then smoking would work?

Sounds like more work than it is worth.  If you want to smoke dehydrated milk I would buy powdered milk and give it a go.  My preference would be to smoke the liquid milk, leave it overnight to develop the flavours as others have suggested and see what you get.

[jeffshoaf]

42 minutes ago, tekobo said:

Sounds like more work than it is worth.  If you want to smoke dehydrated milk I would buy powdered milk and give it a go.  My preference would be to smoke the liquid milk, leave it overnight to develop the flavours as others have suggested and see what you get.

I was thinking that this could be a way to make use of milk that's on the verge of aging out and saving it until I had a use for it;  my timing just isn't good enough for that to happen at the same time I want to make a stew!

[C6Bill]

Would it really be worth that much time to save a little milk ? You are going to burn lump and smoking wood and then take time to dehydrate and powder a little milk ? 

[jeffshoaf]

5 minutes ago, C6Bill said:

Would it really be worth that much time to save a little milk ? You are going to burn lump and smoking wood and then take time to dehydrate and powder a little milk ? 

No lump, cold smoker only. Saving a little milk is a side benefit  - the goal is to get smoked milk to flavor stews, etc. The dehydration is just to allow longer term storage. Think buttermilk powder, but for smoke.

That actually reminds me -- I have some buttermilk powder I got for making bread. I'll try to remember to include that in the cold smoker testing I'm planning for tomorrow.

[Syzygies]

Take into account how liquids take on smoke more quickly. If you like the effect but it's faint, you're on the right track. If the results are wretched, it could be either that you don't like smoked milk, or you used too much smoke.

I prefer to have the chicken itself carry the smoke into the stew.

In the late eighties I visited New Orleans on a soon-to-expire airline bump voucher, and ate over a dozen gumbos. Then I was visiting Nice, France with a friend, and had this idea of getting invited over to people's houses to cook dinner parties. Cooking French for the French didn't make sense, but I was impressed how Alice Waters had transported the idea of Provence to California, founding Chez Pannise. I thought, turn-around is fair play, I'll bring New Orleans to Nice and make a Mediterranean gumbo.

My friend rolled his eyes at the implausibility of this fantasy, but humored me. A Chez Panisse connection? That's over-thinking things, like the LA Dodgers.

A complication for my second host (a dear, now departed friend who made me feel French) was that they kept strict kosher. I wasn't allowed to make the stock. I spent what would be over $100 now on amazing vegetables at the farmers market. Soon we realized we were making an overhyped chicken soup, with twelve guests about to arrive. Jacques came up with the idea of smoking the chicken over vine cuttings. Back in the gumbo, the smoke came up like a house fire, then ... then ... stopped at just the right point.

To my surprise, one of the coauthors of Chez Panisse Pasta, Pizza, & Calzone arrived, expresses her pleasure at an American who cooks. Then everyone is stunned, Jacques kindly (a clear lie) pronounces our gumbo the best meal served in his home. My friend and I get a return invitation a few nights later, learning to make pizza in the home and garden illustrated in the pizza book.

[johnnymnemonic]

On 10/16/2021 at 3:53 PM, jeffshoaf said:

There's a tradition in my area of having chicken stews.

This sounds like a really cool tradition @jeffshoaf- if you don't mind sharing, what area do you live in or hail from?

Getting some of the veggies done over a wood fire is the easiest / quickest way IMO.  I don't know if your recipe calls for onions or peppers or celery but - 

Like to get a little smoke in a pot of chili, I use my wok topper on the BGE (soon to be KK - it's on a train heading a cross the US now).  300-400 degrees dome temp.  I throw a wood chunk on right before I put the food on - but I wait until the chunk has caught fire so that it's not the super thick white smoke - just saute the peppers and onions over the smoky fire.  This usually yields not too little smoke and not too much.

Edited October 18, 2021 by johnnymnemonic

[johnnymnemonic]

1 hour ago, Syzygies said:

That's over-thinking things, like the LA Dodgers.

If last year is any evidence, they can still come back and win it.  As a Braves fan I still almost feel like 2-0 is not enough of a lead against these guys.

1 hour ago, Syzygies said:

To my surprise, one of the coauthors of Chez Panisse Pasta, Pizza, & Calzone arrived, expresses her pleasure at an American who cooks. Then everyone is stunned, Jacques kindly (a clear lie) pronounces our gumbo the best meal served in his home. My friend and I get a return invitation a few nights later, learning to make pizza in the home and garden illustrated in the pizza book.

Great story @Syzygies - thank you for sharing.

[Syzygies]

5 minutes ago, johnnymnemonic said:

As a Braves fan I still almost feel like 2-0 is not enough of a lead against these guys.

As a Giants fan, ask me how I know!

[jeffshoaf]

2 hours ago, Syzygies said:

 I prefer to have the chicken itself carry the smoke into the stew.

that's a thought -- i usually cook the chicken in the instant pot, de-bone, and then use the bones to make additional broth in the instant pot. I could cold smoke the chicken and of the bones. That would work for the bigger stew for the family but not for the occasional quicky for just me.

[jeffshoaf]

1 hour ago, johnnymnemonic said:

This sounds like a really cool tradition @jeffshoaf- if you don't mind sharing, what area do you live in or hail from?

Getting some of the veggies done over a wood fire is the easiest / quickest way IMO.  I don't know if your recipe calls for onions or peppers or celery but - 

Like to get a little smoke in a pot of chili, I use my wok topper on the BGE (soon to be KK - it's on a train heading a cross the US now).  300-400 degrees dome temp.  I throw a wood chunk on right before I put the food on - but I wait until the chunk has caught fire so that it's not the super thick white smoke - just saute the peppers and onions over the smoky fire.  This usually yields not too little smoke and not too much.

I'm in the Western Piedmont area of North Carolina, almost the foothills.

There's similar stews throughout the Carolinas and Virgina (did a bit of on-line research last year)  with most of the regional differences being various veggies and thickeners, but generally no veggies in my area except for occasionally sneaking in some hot peppers. Just chicken, chicken broth, milk, butter, salt, and pepper, flour- and/or corn starch-based thickening, and served with saltine crackers. I like to add cream or half-and-half and a bit of sour cream, but I have to sneak in the sour cream to keep from upsetting my mother.

Some regions add crumbled crackers to the pot as the thickening but not around here. I don't know of anyone measuring anything, everything is added to taste based on the amount of broth but I would guess that extra milk is sometimes used to stretch things for bigger than expected crowds.

[jeffshoaf]

Fun side note to the chicken stew history - my father hosted the extended family chicken stew for many years. The big cast iron pot he used was used by his mother for washing clothes on the family farm before they got a washing machine. I think it's a 30  gallon pot and I believe it's stayed up in the rafters of his old shop building. If my mom ever sells her house, I'll have to get some help to get it down and find a place to keep it.

[johnnymnemonic]

@jeffshoafI was in the great smokies just a week or so ago and went through your neck of the woods. We took US 23 / GA 441.  Stopped in a little town called Sylva.  One of the prettiest little towns I have seen.  Reminded me a little bit of Fort Payne, AL but even prettier.  My wife's parents have a place at Lake Burton, GA which is near Murphy which is kind of in the foothills.  Western NC is beautiful, all of it.

I think I have had chicken stew like you are describing - when you said saltines, the bells started going off.  It is SO GOOD.  I think I've only had this once or twice.  But I'm trying to remember where I had it.  Maybe my own grandmother made it.  Her side of the family comes from North Carolina from way back.  Or maybe it was like you said - in a big pot over a fire.  I went to a lot of hunting events with my dad as a kid.  Dove hunts in particular.  Maybe I had this at a dove hunt once.

Edited October 18, 2021 by johnnymnemonic
clarity