Really thinking of buying a dream 23"

[ChiKing]

Hi all,

Had a few questions that I suspect this group could help me with. I looked at the KK maybe 5 years ago, but living in an apartment and the price, there was no way. I ended up buying a primo junior which has served me and the bellies of many very well. I was planning on just buying the Primo XL and giving my brother in law my junior, but then I started looking at the KJ 3 and the KJ pro and of course it brought be back to thinking about this beauty. So I just have a couple of questions and of course all opinions are welcome (its a forum).

1. Given the rapid updates of the kamado Joe Big 3 and Big pro, how much more BBQ quality am I getting vs style at this point? Specs are hard to red through and compare so if there is a big value difference, I am all ears.

2. I tend to run a brisket then hours later layer on racks of ribs and finish by upping the heat and grilling. on my primo I need to Get it open and closed quick but since its smaller its not hard to add stuff quickly. Is the KK easy to add stuff halfway and also do I need to worry about temp changes really fast once open?

3. What is the lowest temp I can cook with consistency and not worry about the flame going out.

4. 21" vs. 23" - it seems the main difference is in the main cooking area but not sure if there is something else. My average cook is 1 whole packer brisket, 3-5 racks or ribs and then odds and ends near the end. Thoughts on 21" vs 23". If I ever cooked two briskets at once, that would be nice but litterally may happen once every two years or my wife would kill me

Thanks again

 

 

 

[MacKenzie]

I used to own the Primo brand and loved it a lot but then I bought the first KK. It was night and day ahead in quality of the build and the taste of the food that was cooked. It moved to the next level and the service from Dennis is above and beyond anything you would have known in the past. You can call him now and speak with him. There will be NO pressure to buy and he will NEVER try to up sell you.  I would suggest anything you can do on your current cook you will be able to do it easier and better on the KK. Not only that it will last and last and last. The only danger is that once you buy one KK you might very well want to buy a second. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by MacKenzie

[Pequod]

43 minutes ago, ChiKing said:

Hi all,

Had a few questions that I suspect this group could help me with. I looked at the KK maybe 5 years ago, but living in an apartment and the price, there was no way. I ended up buying a primo junior which has served me and the bellies of many very well. I was planning on just buying the Primo XL and giving my brother in law my junior, but then I started looking at the KJ 3 and the KJ pro and of course it brought be back to thinking about this beauty. So I just have a couple of questions and of course all opinions are welcome (its a forum).

1. Given the rapid updates of the kamado Joe Big 3 and Big pro, how much more BBQ quality am I getting vs style at this point? Specs are hard to red through and compare so if there is a big value difference, I am all ears.

2. I tend to run a brisket then hours later layer on racks of ribs and finish by upping the heat and grilling. on my primo I need to Get it open and closed quick but since its smaller its not hard to add stuff quickly. Is the KK easy to add stuff halfway and also do I need to worry about temp changes really fast once open?

3. What is the lowest temp I can cook with consistency and not worry about the flame going out.

4. 21" vs. 23" - it seems the main difference is in the main cooking area but not sure if there is something else. My average cook is 1 whole packer brisket, 3-5 racks or ribs and then odds and ends near the end. Thoughts on 21" vs 23". If I ever cooked two briskets at once, that would be nice but litterally may happen once every two years or my wife would kill me

Thanks again

 

 

 

I’ll bite.

1. I don’t know the latest KJ models, but had a KJ Classic before my KK’s (yes plural). Nice grills, but night and day quality difference. Unless something has changed, the KJ is still a glazed ceramic pot at its core. KK’s are made of refractory cement, then encased in a thermal jacket. The insulating characteristics are far superior. Does it matter? Heck yeah. If you like Kamados for the low airflow due to the great insulation, KK’s far surpass the glazed pots in that regard

2. See answer to #1. Because KK’s are so well insulated, once heat soaked they recover extremely quickly from opening the lid. Go ahead and add more, take some off, or just admire the view. The KK recovers...fast.

3. Without a controller I’ve manages around 200F with no problem. With a controller I’ve gone down to 180.  With the cold smoker and no coals...ambient temps.

4. There is a thread here by @tekobo that compares the two. She has both and will be along shortly to fill you in. 

 

[Basher]

I’ll let others answer these questions in more detail Chiking.

I have the 23 and have no regrets with the size, however, have definitely pushed it to edges with salmon and roti cooks. 21 would have been too small.

The two big differences you will find on a KK is firstly the thermal mass is easily twice the KJ. ( I am not a scientist so don’t take this statistic literally )

KJ to KK is like comparing a kettle to a KJ with the thermal mass. Nothing wrong with any of these cookers, as they step up in cost, they step up in quality.

More mass, then less airflow required to hold your temp.

Less airflow means better wet bulb temperature and less meat dehydration. And more efficient cooks with with less charcoal.

When you open the lid, temps will drop for no more than a few minutes, then it bangs back to the previously set temp. Not more and not less.

I’m no expert with briskets and ribs, but others here seem to have mastered them.

One more thing, there is no comparison to the aesthetic beauty. They are ornaments in your garden. I’m sure you have already worked this out with the photos. In real life, they look even better.

 

 

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[ChiKing]

28 minutes ago, Pequod said:

I’ll bite.

1. I don’t know the latest KJ models, but had a KJ Classic before my KK’s (yes plural). Nice grills, but night and day quality difference. Unless something has changed, the KJ is still a glazed ceramic pot at its core. KK’s are made of refractory cement, then encased in a thermal jacket. The insulating characteristics are far superior. Does it matter? Heck yeah. If you like Kamados for the low airflow due to the great insulation, KK’s far surpass the glazed pots in that regard

2. See answer to #1. Because KK’s are so well insulated, once heat soaked they recover extremely quickly from opening the lid. Go ahead and add more, take some off, or just admire the view. The KK recovers...fast.

3. Without a controller I’ve manages around 200F with no problem. With a controller I’ve gone down to 180.  With the cold smoker and no coals...ambient temps.

4. There is a thread here by @tekobo that compares the two. She has both and will be along shortly to fill you in. 

 

Thank you, 

 

Awesome answer and clarity. This will for sure help when I tell the wife... The colors are so nice, she will love that aspect. 

[Wingman505]

2 hours ago, Pequod said:

I’ll bite.

1. I don’t know the latest KJ models, but had a KJ Classic before my KK’s (yes plural). Nice grills, but night and day quality difference. Unless something has changed, the KJ is still a glazed ceramic pot at its core. KK’s are made of refractory cement, then encased in a thermal jacket. The insulating characteristics are far superior. Does it matter? Heck yeah. If you like Kamados for the low airflow due to the great insulation, KK’s far surpass the glazed pots in that regard

2. See answer to #1. Because KK’s are so well insulated, once heat soaked they recover extremely quickly from opening the lid. Go ahead and add more, take some off, or just admire the view. The KK recovers...fast.

3. Without a controller I’ve manages around 200F with no problem. With a controller I’ve gone down to 180.  With the cold smoker and no coals...ambient temps.

4. There is a thread here by @tekobo that compares the two. She has both and will be along shortly to fill you in. 

 

I too own a KJ Classic 2 and I just sold a BGE XL  I previously owned and sold a Weber Summit gas grill and a Traeger.  I can't really add much to Pequod's response above as I completely agree with all of it.  I've been cooking on Kamados for years, and nothing compares to the KK.  I received my 32" Big Bad and only needed to cook on it a few times to understand how different it is.  I've cooked 2 packer briskets, whole chickens, steaks, etc.  The KK performed flawlessly, with ease, and produced the best tasting version of each protein Ive ever had.  I ordered my 23" Ultimate just two weeks after receiving my Big Bad and we're currently anxiously awaiting its arrival.  That seems a little crazy, and it probably is, but the results spoke for themselves.  What's truly crazy is my wife, @Christinelynn, sanctioned the second purchase.  She's the family accountant... She does that job far better than I ever would, could, or want to.  If the food produced convinced her to make a second KK purchase, it'd convince anyone.

I guess I did have some to add. 

[tekobo]

This is super hard for me to comment on because I love both my 23 and 21 and I would happily buy every other size of grill in Dennis' arsenal if I had the space and the money.  The only sure fire advice I can give you is: get a KK, you won't regret it.  

Then you need to balance heart, head and money.  Some would say get one KK (to start with ) and get the biggest you can afford.  Others would say get two because cooking at different temps and over different time frames is even more useful.  

Here's some stuff to help with the head part of the equation: 

 

Welcome and good luck!

[Braai-Q]

15 hours ago, ChiKing said:

Hi all,

Had a few questions that I suspect this group could help me with. I looked at the KK maybe 5 years ago, but living in an apartment and the price, there was no way. I ended up buying a primo junior which has served me and the bellies of many very well. I was planning on just buying the Primo XL and giving my brother in law my junior, but then I started looking at the KJ 3 and the KJ pro and of course it brought be back to thinking about this beauty. So I just have a couple of questions and of course all opinions are welcome (its a forum).

1. Given the rapid updates of the kamado Joe Big 3 and Big pro, how much more BBQ quality am I getting vs style at this point? Specs are hard to red through and compare so if there is a big value difference, I am all ears.

2. I tend to run a brisket then hours later layer on racks of ribs and finish by upping the heat and grilling. on my primo I need to Get it open and closed quick but since its smaller its not hard to add stuff quickly. Is the KK easy to add stuff halfway and also do I need to worry about temp changes really fast once open?

3. What is the lowest temp I can cook with consistency and not worry about the flame going out.

4. 21" vs. 23" - it seems the main difference is in the main cooking area but not sure if there is something else. My average cook is 1 whole packer brisket, 3-5 racks or ribs and then odds and ends near the end. Thoughts on 21" vs 23". If I ever cooked two briskets at once, that would be nice but litterally may happen once every two years or my wife would kill me

Thanks again

 

 

 

Welcome to the forum. 

1. I'm not sure if you've seen a KK in the flesh but the quality and finish speaks for itself. No hyperbole. It doesn't require adornment or constant updates to stimulate sales and any improvements Dennis makes to the design are considered and well executed. Same so for accessories. Dennis has often talked about his cost plus build approach and coupled with the absence of intermediaries means you get better value and quality to an item built to a price point with margin built through a distribution network. I'm very dismissive of KJ products based on their build quality. Opening and comparing the lid mechanism on a KK versus a KJ is the best explanation of why I feel this way IMHO. The other selling point I found with the KK is the direct relationship with Dennis - either in sales or support. It gave me a lot of confidence spending this much on a KK sight unseen which was the scenario with my first one. 

2. Really easy. The lid opening mechanism is beautifully weighted and eases up versus lurching back on the spring release so it's easy to slip items in without impacting temperatures. That said, even if you had the lid completely open, temperatures will return to what they were prior to being opened very quickly. The heat retention on a heat soaked KK is superb. There is probably a thread on thermal mass and heat retention of the insulation material somewhere on this forum!!!! 

3. I regularly do 100 degree cooks for 18-20 hours (briskets typically). Would not see why you wouldn't be able to hold it a bit lower, 85-100 range. 

4. I'm either side of the sizes that you're looking at (have a 19TT and a 32) so can't comment specifically on the models as an owner but went through the same consideration process. I was initially limited on space when I lived in central London - I could not get a wider grill through my door without hiring a crane and taking it over the roof. The joy of Victorian houses. I didn't even open that conversation with my wife as that would have really pushed the limits of her understanding. The 19 was great but a little small for some cuts and for grilling, there isn't sufficient surface area for anything but smallish cooks. You end up having to batch cook for guests and it can be less than ideal. If you want to grill or think you might want to grill, I'd go for the extra surface area. Also consider that you'll grow into the KK and find new things to do with it such will be your enthusiasm, no doubt fuelled and inspired by this forum. 

Hope these comments are of some help. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Braai-Q

[Tyrus]

Not much too add since everyone has weighed in with all the tech and helpful suggestions however, one item that stood out to me was the fire box in the KK. Dennis designed the fire box in two pieces allowing the refractory to expand under high heat, this design gave you the ability go beyond the norm and achieve higher temps without suffering damage. KJ has developed a 4 or 5 part box now based upon this same idea, recognizing singular formed pots fail and crack. The latched handle KJ has employed on their newer model looks awfully familiar too. Seems to me someone is borrowing the improvements and if you look closely you'll find they don't don't approach anywhere near the quality the KK offers. Imitation is the the sincerest form of flattery or larceny. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Tyrus

[Jon B.]

@ChiKing Welcome!  I started out cooking with the Primo Jr. and XL.  Still have them at the family cottage.  Also own a KJ Jr.   That being said.....I bought a 19" Table Top KK and was so impressed with the quality and performance, I bought a second one - 16" TT. 

In my experience, the quality of the KJ and the Primo is the same.  KJ has some nice features and accessories but the oval shape of the Primo was more important to me.  (Thus saving for the 42" KK)

There is, however, no comparison in the quality of the KK compared to the KJ's or Primo's.  The KK's are built for a lifetime of cooking.

As you know....you can cook well on a Primo but the KK is one amazing cooker.   I have had them side by side and never thought of using the Primo's instead of the KK's. 

Have fun with your decision!!!!

[ChiKing]

Thank you all for your thoughts and feedback. I spoke to Dennis yesterday and he was great answering questions. Next up, I showed photos to my wife who thought it was pretty and she picked the color that would match our backyard theme. I was off to the races and ordered the 23" last night. 

 

A brisket and a pizza will happen real fast!

 

have a great day. This forum has tons of good info so excited to learn more.

[Jon B.]

Great news!  Let us know what you think once you see the KK in person.   Also if you have any questions the fine folks on this forum will be happy to help!

[Pequod]

19 minutes ago, ChiKing said:

Thank you all for your thoughts and feedback. I spoke to Dennis yesterday and he was great answering questions. Next up, I showed photos to my wife who thought it was pretty and she picked the color that would match our backyard theme. I was off to the races and ordered the 23" last night. 

 

A brisket and a pizza will happen real fast!

 

have a great day. This forum has tons of good info so excited to learn more.

...and the color is?

[ChiKing]

2 minutes ago, Pequod said:

...and the color is?

The lighter version of the Terra Blue tiles.

[Jon B.]

1 minute ago, ChiKing said:

The lighter version of the Terra Blue tiles.

Good choice!  The terra tiles are really sharp looking (plus tile KK's cook better than pebbles)

[Alohapiggy]

Don’t forget to load up your cart with charcoal. It’s not always available so get it while u can.   

[Basher]

Good choice!  The terra tiles are really sharp looking (plus tile KK's cook better than pebbles)

Stop it Jon, you know it’s not true.
Congrats on the decision to invest Chiking.
Did you come back from the races and change your mind to a 42”?


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[tony b]

Great news on the purchase and Welcome to the Obsession! You and the Mrs will be blown away once you see it in person! We look forward to the pictures when it arrives. Then, you'll be even more impressed once you cook on it.

If you have any more questions, like "must have" accessories, etc., feel free to ask. We've all been there. As Alohapig said, get as many boxes of cocochar and/or coffee wood lump, as will fit on the pallet. Cheapest that you will ever pay for it and both are excellent charcoals. 

[MacKenzie]

You did it and you will not regret this purchase.  

Any idea as to when you will take delivery?

BTW, we all want to see lots of the arrival pixs.

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by MacKenzie

[Tyrus]

No regrets..... so the wait begins............don't that suck.