Knife Recommendations?

[Wingman505]

I’m a Yaxell Super Gou fan.

[Braai-Q]

  On 1/20/2021 at 12:42 AM, 5698k said:

Tojiro is a great knife , and Masakage has some great knives also..both of which are less expensive than shun, about the same as global, but are crafted Japanese kitchen knives.

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I know Tojiro (only seen a limited range in retail) and Masakage but never seen Masakage in the metal as it were. I think Blenheim Forge draw heavily on them design wise. 

[Braai-Q]

  On 1/19/2021 at 5:30 PM, Syzygies said:

Wow. I'm beginning to wonder if the 196 USD I spent to have a Tojiro DP 3-Layer Chinese Cleaver 225mm delivered from Japan was chump change, and VG-10 steel is a compromise I shouldn't be making?

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I think like most things with a following, this a rabbit hole topic!

  15 hours ago, Syzygies said:

I can imagine spending 400 USD on a cleaver (Chuka Bocho), perhaps blue or white steel, if the difference would really be apparent. Or something like Bryan Raquin's Nakira 195 if it's ever back in stock. I suspect there are some strong opinions here...

Being a mathematician has trained me to hear when people fall into logical black holes. "Seasoning is polymerization, so let's use flaxseed oil" misses the other components of restaurant abuse. Getting a perfect edge on a knife? Such an obvious goal, it has to be wrong sometimes. A serrated edge is better at slicing, and serration is a matter of degree, even the edge after an 8000 water stone is irregular at sufficient magnification. I've been meaning to get a good USB microscope for knife sharpening, coffee grinding, to make these issues obvious. I certainly adjust my technique over the lifetime of a sharpening cycle, increasing my slicing motion as the edges fade. And a chip in a favorite knife? It's a feature, not a bug!

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A bug? No, that's an Easter Egg. Well done for finding it, just don't tell anyone else and spoil the surprise. 

At what point does patina add value to a knife? Or does it ever? In classic cars, original paint and patina are authenticity and are sought after. Same applies to guitars. The concept of 'relicing' a guitar is something that I just don't understand. Well, I do but I don't and wouldn't pay for it. 

Maybe there is an opportunity to sell authentic patina - I'm happy to offer my services free of charge. It'll take about 2-5 years per knife but I can guarantee the authentic signs of use when returned... 

[Basher]

  On 1/19/2021 at 11:38 PM, Braai-Q said:

I'm not saying that Global and Shun are the be all. Sort of my point in hitting the balance between being good enough to not worry about and being fit for purpose. In general retail in the UK, Sabatier and Wusthof together with Global tend to dominate. 'Japanese knives' seem to be seen as shorthand for quality standard whereas true quality in Japanese knives is another level and quite limited in availability as very few people see the value in spending north of £400-£500 on a single blade. Brexit has made things worse here with most of Europe refusing supply including Japanese Natural Stones. 
I think critically assessed, the Blenheim Forge knives will not stand up to scrutiny and there are better Japanese knives out there, of that I have no doubt. 
Where would you put your money in Japanese knives out of interest?
 

Although you can spend £400- 500 on a Japanese knife, you don’t have to.
I just paid £75 for this petty Tanaka knife.

https://www.knivesandstones.com.au/products/tanaka-ginsan-nashiji-petty-120mm-with-ebony-handle
If you look around you can buy good Japanese knives made from top steel ( blue super) for £100. UK, USA, Canada, Australia.
Dive into the rabbit hole mate, you will love it.
I maintain that all sharp knives are good knives, the question is how long do they stay satisfactorily sharp?
I don’t mind drawing along a steel mid preparation, I don’t want to have to sharpen mid prep.


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[Braai-Q]

  On 1/20/2021 at 9:44 AM, Basher said:

Although you can spend £400- 500 on a Japanese knife, you don’t have to.
I just paid £75 for this petty Tanaka knife.

https://www.knivesandstones.com.au/products/tanaka-ginsan-nashiji-petty-120mm-with-ebony-handle
If you look around you can buy good Japanese knives made from top steel ( blue super) for £100. UK, USA, Canada, Australia.
Dive into the rabbit hole mate, you will love it.
I maintain that all sharp knives are good knives, the question is how long do they stay satisfactorily sharp?
I don’t mind drawing along a steel mid preparation, I don’t want to have to sharpen mid prep.


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Price ≠ quality. 

I think you have to be well researched to know what you're buying and what you want to achieve with a Japanese knife. I dipped my toe a while ago and quickly realised that this was such a slippery slope. It's why I said knives are a personal decision and I don't think you can decide on cost alone.

Agree on the knife sharpness - I don't trust my lack of practice to not mess up a good blade which is why I use the Lansky and was looking at the TRProf. Pointless having a good blade and lacking the means to properly care for it.

I feel myself being sucked into the rabbit hole again. 

 

[tekobo]

  On 1/20/2021 at 10:17 AM, Braai-Q said:

I feel myself being sucked into the rabbit hole again. 

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Tee hee.  I feel like an interloper in this knife conversation but I have returned for a few reasons:

1. To thank @troble for starting this thread

2. To say that I woke up especially happy this morning.   For a few years I have been dogmatic about using my two go-to knives and nothing else.  It was great to be free of clutter but now I have decided that I will go into our knife store and pick out one to be a guest knife each month.  We have some we bought in Japan and some that we bought direct from a knife maker in India.  It will be fun to discover their various characteristics.

3.  To say that we will get a knife sharpener but I don't yet know which.  White smoke pending.  The Husband seems to trust the You Tube guy that he found.  Apparently he is a Green Bay fan like my husband.  It takes all sorts.  

[Braai-Q]

  On 1/20/2021 at 2:29 PM, tekobo said:

Tee hee.  I feel like an interloper in this knife conversation but I have returned for a few reasons:

1. To thank @troble for starting this thread

2. To say that I woke up especially happy this morning.   For a few years I have been dogmatic about using my two go-to knives and nothing else.  It was great to be free of clutter but now I have decided that I will go into our knife store and pick out one to be a guest knife each month.  We have some we bought in Japan and some that we bought direct from a knife maker in India.  It will be fun to discover their various characteristics.

3.  To say that we will get a knife sharpener but I don't yet know which.  White smoke pending.  The Husband seems to trust the You Tube guy that he found.  Apparently he is a Green Bay fan like my husband.  It takes all sorts.  

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I think this thread has taken on a life of its own. Sorry @Troble, hope you don't mind. 

I know the channel that you're talking about. Has Mr Tekobo been assigned to research willingly or was he ordered? 😆

[Troble]

@Braai-Q I’ve made my purchases and this is a worthy topic. Lots of good info from everyone 

[Tyrus]

  On 1/19/2021 at 2:55 AM, cruzmisl said:

This is the result my carelessness when I hit a hidden bone

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BUT, "it will kill."  As promised Troble I ventured back to the store where all those ancient knives were last I saw them,... the pile was gone. I did however manage a few pieces I thought were going to work around the grills, so for around $30 these pieces came home with me. The knife is 13 1/2" inches, 1/16" Carbon steel from point to tang, the condition showed no chips, and it  remarkably was still holding an edge. It has a mahogany handle increasing the overall length to 18 1/4 inches. I'll clean the edge up on the belt sander and finish with a stone,,$18. This knife is a carver so brisket and turkey are what it will probably be destined for.  The large (Lamson) fork had some nice detail, great patina and popping brass rivet work with a hard wood handle, $6. The little fork was just unique, having mid century modern look it cried to be taken, $4.  Remember, it's not the prettiest knife that's remembered at the BBQ, it's the one that did the job & was the sharpest. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Tyrus

[Paul]

  On 1/20/2021 at 9:44 AM, Basher said:

I maintain that all sharp knives are good knives, the question is how long do they stay satisfactorily sharp?
I don’t mind drawing along a steel mid preparation, I don’t want to have to sharpen mid prep.

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I'll come clean. I use Wusthof knives and have for years. I know next to nothing about metallurgy but, I have no problem keeping an edge on these to the point where friends and family are scared of them...which is completely backwards. 

[cruzmisl]

When buying a knife, some may consider it an obligation and not the purchase of an essential tool. Once I gained more knowledge, I began to appreciate them more. The learning curve was steep and the knowledge base vast.

My education led me to think of my knives as family heirlooms. Heirlooms that will be passed on and enjoyed by other family members long after I'm gone. They have scars, stories and memories that will be shared for years; just like Grandma's cast iron pan.

Lastly, I love my Japanese knives but there are great knives made everywhere. The artisans that made my gyotu have a wait list of over 50 months and they're in Georgia

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[5698k]

Wustof knives are excellent knives as far as German knives go. German steel is softer, which makes them easier to maintain, and sharpen. You’ll never get a German steel knife as sharp as a Japanese knife, but it’s much easier to sharpen to get back to its best. They’re better for hard jobs that are more of a hacking motion.

There’s been posts about Japanese steel, white and blue are the most prevalent in the carbon steel world, the difference is basically hardness. Blue and white are different..no one is “better”than the other. Blue is harder, holds its edge longer, assuming everything is equal, it’s also more brittle, making it a bit more fragile. White steel is a bit softer, less brittle, but also easier to sharpen to a screaming edge, to the point that there are plenty of forgers that will only use white steel.

I must apologize, I’m more into knives that many would never care to have, so often I comment on things that many don’t care to venture towards, but I do have thoughts if anyone cares to go down this rabbit hole.


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[cruzmisl]

  On 1/21/2021 at 1:18 AM, Paul said:

I'll come clean. I use Wusthof knives and have for years.

5698k, I agree. Wusthof and Henckel were the standard when I started in the kitchen. Paul felt obligated to "confess" he has them in his kitchen. It's all good Paul haha j/k.

When it comes to rough knife work, the Germans have it cornered. They're like a Timex. Take a likkin' - keep on tikkin'

My Japanese knife broke

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[Braai-Q]

  On 1/21/2021 at 4:30 AM, cruzmisl said:

5698k, I agree. Wusthof and Henckel were the standard when I started in the kitchen. Paul felt obligated to "confess" he has them in his kitchen. It's all good Paul haha j/k.

 

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Talking of standards, unless I missed it, I don't think that anyone has mentioned Lion Sabatier. I don't have a point of view on them either way, just that they're usually mentioned with Wusthof and Henckel. Wondered if they're not seen as being good enough?

Edited January 21, 2021 by Braai-Q

[Braai-Q]

  On 1/21/2021 at 1:33 AM, 5698k said:

Wustof knives are excellent knives as far as German knives go. German steel is softer, which makes them easier to maintain, and sharpen. You’ll never get a German steel knife as sharp as a Japanese knife, but it’s much easier to sharpen to get back to its best. They’re better for hard jobs that are more of a hacking motion.

There’s been posts about Japanese steel, white and blue are the most prevalent in the carbon steel world, the difference is basically hardness. Blue and white are different..no one is “better”than the other. Blue is harder, holds its edge longer, assuming everything is equal, it’s also more brittle, making it a bit more fragile. White steel is a bit softer, less brittle, but also easier to sharpen to a screaming edge, to the point that there are plenty of forgers that will only use white steel.

I must apologize, I’m more into knives that many would never care to have, so often I comment on things that many don’t care to venture towards, but I do have thoughts if anyone cares to go down this rabbit hole.
 

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Great to have your knowledge and passion here Robert. I wouldn't apologise for knowing your subject. Hope I don't annoy you with stupid questions! 

[tony b]

  On 1/21/2021 at 8:44 AM, Braai-Q said:

Talking of standards, unless I missed it, I don't think that anyone has mentioned Lion Sabatier. I don't have a point of view on them either way, just that they're usually mentioned with Wusthof and Henckel. Wondered if they're not seen as being good enough?

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Back in the day, Sabatier was one of the "gold standards" for professional knives. I coveted a set, but they were out of my price range back then. I don't know their history well enough to know why they seem to have fallen out of favor these days? 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by tony b

[Syzygies]

  On 1/20/2021 at 5:02 PM, Braai-Q said:

I think this thread has taken on a life of its own. Sorry @Troble, hope you don't mind.

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All forum posts on all forums are for the future benefit of others; this isn't a private help desk.

I've talked before over a thousand people multiple times, and given advice to others on doing so: It isn't about you!

In pre-pandemic times, people would gather together like wolves in a hole, and have someone stand in front. It's a role. It's easier to play this role if one sees it as such.

The OP is the conversation starter, that's all. Thank you! Others will find this great thread, and learn what they need from it.

[Braai-Q]

  On 1/21/2021 at 5:49 PM, tony b said:

Back in the day, Sabatier was one of the "gold standards" for professional knives. I coveted a set, but they were out of my price range back then. I don't know their history well enough to know why they seem to have fallen out of favor these days? 

 

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Yeah, I always thought they were respected as a brand. I have a little paring knife that I've had for years. Still going strong. 

[Braai-Q]

  On 1/21/2021 at 6:10 PM, Syzygies said:

All forum posts on all forums are for the future benefit of others; this isn't a private help desk.

I've talked before over a thousand people multiple times, and given advice to others on doing so: It isn't about you!

In pre-pandemic times, people would gather together like wolves in a hole, and have someone stand in front. It's a role. It's easier to play this role if one sees it as such.

The OP is the conversation starter, that's all. Thank you! Others will find this great thread, and learn what they need from it.

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It was actually said tongue in cheek, I didn't mean for it to be taken literally. 🙂

[Troble]

Just keep bumping up my content scores!

 

😛😛😛😛😛😛😘😘😘😘😘😘😘

 

this is all great info and why I love this board. So much knowledge by this collective group. 
 

@5698k no need to apologize I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this education on knives. Thank you for your contributions 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Troble