Is a Komodo Kamado Enough for All Your Grilling Needs?

[tekobo]

All really helpful, thanks.  The gadget angle is one that will take time to explore. I remember reading about the journey some of you  have had with getting the MEATER and thinking I'd watch and wait. If they finally come with the block it means they are genuinely on their way with this.

We spent yesterday evening cooking on our current grill and it helped me reflect on a lot of stuff.  We could have got the fire going earlier with a weed gun and we certainly needed better char - the batch we started with took ages to get going.  We were only able to grill for the whole meal, more juggling would have been required to cook a big joint low and slow.  And I just know that the KK wouldn't have dried out our beautiful home made chipolatas and that I would have avoided unnecessary blackening of the chicken wings.  I'm going to work to refine my accessory list over the next few weeks but @5698k is right.  Making the decision to go with the two KKs is the only one that really matters.  And, as @Paul noted,  I am going to use the fabulous food we'll cook on the KKs to draw others into our cult...

Edited August 27, 2017 by tekobo

[Shuley]

I'm a little late to this party but you are about to have a ton of fun and you won't believe the moisture in your food (especially chicken)!!

[tony b]

A double thumbs up to Shuley's comment about the chicken.      You will be blown away!! 

[Tyrus]

Keep them covered as one of your children in a rain coat, seems alittle extreme for an inanimate object, yet it is as I consider something necessary, that will serve you well for years to come.  No tax without representation. Alls forgotten.

[Syzygies]

Is a Komodo Kamado Enough for All Your Grilling Needs?

For any cooker, there's going to be what you wanted to do before adapting to the cooker, and what you find you can do after adapting to the cooker. The KK opens up a far wider world than I thought possible, though I can't match absolutely every technique I had learned before.

For us, traditional deliberately smoked low and slow barbecue is always a joy, but has become less and less important over time. We do regularly cook brisket or pulled pork for very large groups in a 23" KK. Brisket is dead simple with a KK, but the same quality is out of reach with more primitive equipment.

In place of low and slow, the KK has become our outdoor oven. (We love fire and don't love air conditioning, so phasing out the indoor oven in summer is a lifestyle choice.) Bread, pizza, meat roasts, even dessert with good charcoal control. Here, any charcoal short of the KK extruded coconut lump will impart some smoke, that some people will pick up and others won't. With no money constraints or storage constraints, one should consider using extruded coconut lump whenever this could possibly be an issue. Or the KK coffee charcoal, if smoke is ok but has to be that good in quality. (In other words, Dennis is on this.)

The KK is a dream for paella. One can close the lid (I sawed the handles off my biggest pan for this), or not.

Grilling is like painting. One could happily spend one's life as an oil painter (or only grilling with a KK), but one won't produce watercolors this way. Grilling is also the biggest space hog, and the primary motivation for the largest cookers that Dennis sells.

For me, chicken is the most versatile grilling meat, that displays myriad responses to myriad techniques. A couple of decades ago, I nailed a style of rotisserie chicken on a gas grill (like the best you'd expect from a shop that specialized in this), with vivid memories of entire parties rushing the serving table. My rotisserie experiments with the KK never matched this style, for reasons unknown, and I stopped even trying, in favor of direct high heat roasting after a light brine. I also have fond memories of grilled roadside chicken in Thailand, which I came closest to reproducing on 2' x 8' rental grills for a wedding party, constantly tending chicken parts a few inches off nice coals. I can't reproduce this with a KK. Honestly, I've never seen someone nail this style on a Weber either; the coal quality I'm imagining won't last long enough in a Weber, and Weber chicken tends to have the kerosene taste of burnt skin fat. There's something about a uniform, essentially infinitely wide but close and shallow layer of good mature coals, for grilling as people have done for a million years. The KK simply doesn't have this geometry, nor does a Weber.

Our meat grilling (pork, beef, lamb, goat) has evolved as we've adapted to sous vide. We're simply very busy, and very fussy about consistent results. The very idea that grilled meat is better on the bone with visible fat strips, shaped like a steak, is an idea that predates and isn't adapted to sous vide. One wants to sous vide a hunk of meat (e.g. pork "sirloin") that can be sliced and eaten in its entirety, then finish it a few minutes over great charcoal. I use KK coffee charcoal, miserly amounts in a basket insert:

Mini basket for coffee lump charcoal

The sous vide step not only nails doneness, it tenderizes over several hours the more flavorful cuts that can be tougher if cooked traditionally.

In summary, I don't trust anyone who disparages a Weber. If one has any talent for grilling, a Weber is a great instrument. However, a KK is far more versatile. How would I quantify this? They're both fairly priced. Does a KK do everything? No. Can I give up what it won't do? Yes, a KK opens up an enormously wider range of possibilities than it gives up.

[tekobo]

Thanks for taking the time to address my grilling question @Syzygies.  As I started to investigate gadget world, it finally sank in that I am entering into a new paradigm, one where my BBQ is actually an outdoor oven.  That may sound obvious to all you long term KK people but it was news to me. With that mind shift I will be more open to the options that the KK offers.

I know you don't like burned chicken fat @Syzygies and I can tell you that that is one thing our Argentinian grill excels at not producing.  The v-shaped grill bars collect the fat off your cooking food and drain it into a channel that runs along the front of your BBQ.  It does satisfy the primal grilling urge, with a big fire box to the side for burning down wood and a rotary mechanism that allows you to raise your grill surface, spread your hot coals underneath and then work your cooking rate by raising and lowering your grill.  But that is soon to be consigned to our past, to be resurrected as and when we have more space and feel the need to supplement our KKs. 

As for sous vide, I am keen to try this in combo with our KK.  Sous vide does do bones well you know.  Try the Keller recipe for Southern fried chicken.  I forget about the rest of the chicken and just sous vide a pile of wings and use his various batters and coatings - delicious.  The fact that we buy whole animals means that there is a range of less tender cuts that will be ideal for low and slow or pre-grilling sous vide.  Lots and lots to try out.  What fun!  

Only sad aside is that I won't be doing any of this on Dennis' coco char or coffee lump.  A UK KK owner, @KayJab, alerted me to the fact that flammable items can't be shipped with a KK in a split load.  Conversation with Dennis confirms that we would need to buy 2000 boxes between us to fill a container of our own.  The search starts for a "local" source of similar..

[tony b]

Too bad about not getting any of Dennis' Coco or Coffee charcoals, as they are some of the best charcoals on the market. 

I'm eager to follow your journey with your new KKs and your experiments with sous vide/grilling combos. I have 2 sous vide circulators (a 3rd on order), so obviously I'm a big fan of this style of cooking. As you noted, I won't do fried chicken any other way now. So many of us took up SV cooking that Dennis put a special topic on this Forum for us to talk strictly about SV cooks. 

[Syzygies]

5 hours ago, tekobo said:

our Argentinian grill

I love Argentinian grilling.

I used to frequent a Kismet, Fire Island beach house where three Argentinians showed up one weekend to grill. They had bought the meat at an Argentinian butcher (different cuts). They were throwing elbows like an aggressive masseuse, spitting and prodding, very hands on the whole cook. The results were fantastic.

[Syzygies]

5 hours ago, tekobo said:

Only sad aside is that I won't be doing any of this on Dennis' coco char or coffee lump.

Do explore what charcoals you can find. If Relae in Copenhagen can taste the different sources for water they use in stock, you'll certainly distinguish between each charcoal source.

Do you happen to be rich? Find some Japanese bincho.

There are two poles to charcoal handling with a KK. At one extreme, the fire burns like a fuse. This is your only option for a low and slow, hence the importance of your charcoal choice. At the other extreme, you uniformly burn down all of your coals, in the process thoroughly heat-soaking the KK. The KK is in a different league here from other ceramic cookers. I thought I was already an expert, but the feel was akin to landing a jet after practicing on a prop plane. The KK is very well insulated, with considerable thermal mass. You could probably remove the charcoal fire before roasting, and just coast on the radiant heat in the KK walls, if you wanted to run a bizarre experiment. Many of us are hooked on leaning that way for our hotter cooks. There are many advantages; one is the cleaner taste from fully developed coals, akin to the separate fire box of every dream rig if space is not a constraint.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Syzygies

[tekobo]

Hi there. I would have though it mad to be even considering shipping char across the ocean if not for the enthusiasm that so many have expressed for Dennis' product.  He was very kind with helping me with an initial search for potential sources of similar in the UK and did similar for a roti motor. At the end of all this it may well be worth setting up a reference page for UK newbies.

The Husband will be pleased to read of @Syzygies' support for Argentinian grilling.  Our current grill is old and decrepit and he has found a new supplier just down the road from where he grew up in Norfolk, England.  We can't ignore that karma and maybe, in five years' time, we will be knocking on their door for an extra grill to supplement the KKs.  

Progress being made with building our KKs.  Patience is a virtue, patience is a virtue, patience is...

[tekobo]

So, the accessory list is as settled as it is ever going to be.  Please shout if I have made any really stupid choices.  Otherwise, I'm done and now need to find something to do with my life until the KKs arrive.

Category	Item	23"	21"	Commentary
Definite	Grill shaped baking stone	✓
	17" baking stone		✓
	Spare charcoal basket	✓
	Charcoal basket splitter	✓
	Cover (Meditteranean blue)	✓	✓
	Rib rack	✓		Check if the rib rack will fit in the 21"
	23" ultimate 5/16" SS roisserie spit (hex)	✓		I've wavered about getting a rotisserie at all but, on balance, makes sense to buy it now.
Non-Dennis Purchase	Rothenberger 30954 Roofers Propane Torch Kit with 5m Hose			Looks like UK equivalent of Greenwood.  Bought, try it out soon.
	Smoke pot			I am currently high bidder at v low price on eBay - sure to get beaten but finding a good, cheap pot to drill holes in will keep me occupied for a few weeks
	CyberQ cloud and Pit Viper Fan and two extra food probes			I like the fact that the fan helps to automatically control temp. If you are going to be tech assisted, go all the way.
	Stainless steel cabinet			Get this manufactured locally.  On wheels alongside chimney
	Cocochar			Most UK supplies are for shisha pipes, sold in 1kg bags and are eye wateringly expensive.  Two well priced 10kg bag options are from ProQ cocoshell briquettes and Napoleon coconut briquettes. Will have to get samples to see what they are like and buy in bulk to get better pricing.
	Motor for rotisserie	✓		Onlyfire BBQ Gas Grill Stainless Steel Rotisserie Electric Main Spit Motor,UK 3 Pins Plug.  Dennis picked this out on amazon.co.uk
	MEATER block			I like the wireless thermometers. However, no fan for pit temp control. Waiting list means won't get this until mid 2018 at the earliest.  Decide whether to pay and wait.
Save for later	Octoforks			Not sure how many to buy.  Three pairs?
	Milwaukee compact blower			Try old hair dryer first
No	Wings			No space
	Other Dennis furniture			Gorgeous but still no space
	Cold smoker			The Husband (and me) not convinced
	Double drip pan	✓		Improvise
	8" rotisserie with 6" reducer	✓		Took advice to go with spit rod and Octoforks
	16" round baking steel			Use the heavy cast iron griddle that you bought in Nice for smash burgers - better because it has a lip
	Range dial bluetooth thermometers			Seems well priced for multiple probes.  No fan.  Alerts as opposed to control.  Wires.  Go with MEATER block instead once available
	Smoke and Smoke Gateway			Lots of gadget and thermometer options. Gateway is new.  Wires.  Seems similar to CyberQ without added benefit of connection to fan.

[MacKenzie]

tekobo, sounds like you are as prepared as one could be, now for the wait.  

[tony b]

And, as Tom Petty sings, "The waiting is the hardest part!" 

@tekobo - the Meater will come in handy on those rotisserie cooks where you can't used wired probes. I have a single probe unit and like it. I was an early Kickstarter backer. Yeah, the Block is way behind in development, but I have confidence that they'll get there. They had a number of setbacks getting the basic probes manufactured to spec, so everything was pushed back over a year from the original schedule.

Edited September 2, 2017 by tony b

[Paul]

The most thought out and well documented purchase of a KK and accessories that I've ever seen. Well done!!

[Tucker]

That is a comprehensive list.

lots of pics when they arrive

[tekobo]

On 9/2/2017 at 7:18 AM, Paul said:

The most thought out and well documented purchase of a KK and accessories that I've ever seen. Well done!!

Thanks Paul, for being my first friend on the forum.  It's been great exploring all the information available to help me make my choices. 

[tekobo]

On 9/1/2017 at 10:58 PM, tony b said:

@tekobo - the Meater will come in handy on those rotisserie cooks where you can't used wired probes. I have a single probe unit and like it. I was an early Kickstarter backer. 

Thanks @tony b, for backing this cool product. Your posts about using the Meater gave me confidence that this was something real.  I exchanged a few emails with the Meater team last week and they say that they expect to start to fulfil backers' orders for the block from Q4 2017.  Late comers like me won't get one until mid next year.  Feeling sufficiently confident to place a bet and send them some money.  Looking forward to wireless cooking and the alerts to stop me over cooking stuff.  Given I like most things blue or rare, that will be welcome!

[ckreef]

1 hour ago, tekobo said:

Thanks @tony b, for backing this cool product. Your posts about using the Meater gave me confidence that this was something real.  I exchanged a few emails with the Meater team last week and they say that they expect to start to fulfil backers' orders for the block from Q4 2017.  Late comers like me won't get one until mid next year.  Feeling sufficiently confident to place a bet and send them some money.  Looking forward to wireless cooking and the alerts to stop me over cooking stuff.  Given I like most things blue or rare, that will be welcome!

I think you are a brave soul sending them money for the meter block. I am a very early (way before they met their first goal) backer of the meter block set. I have written it off as a loss. If it shows fine but the experience has turned me off from doing kickstarter products. 

I do hope what they told you is true but I'm not holding my breath. 

 

[Barometer]

Tekobo, one suggestion. Order the rotisserie rod as well as the basket.

 

Simon

[tekobo]

5 hours ago, ckreef said:

I think you are a brave soul sending them money for the meter block. I am a very early (way before they met their first goal) backer of the meter block set. I have written it off as a loss. If it shows fine but the experience has turned me off from doing kickstarter products. 

I do hope what they told you is true but I'm not holding my breath. 

 

Thanks ckreef.  You are going to be my meater block meter.  If they are true to their, most recent, word you should get yours in a month or two.  And I'll send my money then.  Keep us posted!