RobCordeau Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 Hi all, I don't have any pictures to share, but I wanted just write up my most recent cooking attempt for a larger crowd. Any comments are always welcome. To start - this is only the second time I have attempted to make a brisket. First time turned out very good, to my surprise - moist, tender, tasty, everything you'd want. Did a sort of low-and-slow, but added the "Texas crutch" at the stall. So, I did the same thing this time around, only I used a larger brisket and perhaps a poorly chosen cut. I went for all grass-fed this time around, versus grass-fed/grain-finished. Also this time around, I decided to try out my Pit Viper fan attached to my Flame Boss. This time around though, even though I thought I kept the temp profile around the same as before, the brisket turned out dry and some might say that when cut, the pieces could be used as an alternative to brake pads. I blew through two baskets full of charcoal (Rockwood), and I think it is because of running the fan. Even though I had the top closed except for maybe half a turn, the temp was always around 275. While the brisket was resting, I rotisserie cooked two chickens that turned out excellent - crispy skin, awesome golden/dark brown color, juicy. Total hit. So, I guess I learned the hard way that the KK really doesn't need a fan to keep a stable temp running the fan, at least with the Flame Boss, obliterates fuel don't use all grass-fed, low-fat beef brisket if you want something flavorful and tender dry brisket can be substituted for brake pads on light vehicles -Rob 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony b Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 I second your thoughts on 100% grass fed beef. I don't care for it. As you noted, even if cooked "correctly" it still comes out dry and a bit chewy. As Aaron Franklin says, "Always buy the best cut of meat that you can afford." I have a BBQ Guru DigiQ-II and I've never experienced a cook that blew through that much charcoal. Something else is at work here, but you said that your temps stayed steady???? Oh, one last comment, YES - the KK makes the BEST roasted chicken!! It's almost impossible to screw one up. ckreef actually did a test to see if he could dry out a whole chicken on the KK - NOPE! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 26 minutes ago, RobCordeau said: don't use all grass-fed, low-fat beef @RobCordeau I completely agree. I don't care for all grass fed. Way too green for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrus Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 Love brisket especially when done right. I've dried a few and carried on because the effort reward always weighs out the loss. ,,, does that mean failure or harm, NAH but it does mean , stay in the game, probe and watch your the meat visually, become able to see the change, be observant and the rest ,,well,,it becomes a history. Things only get better, I do believe. Amen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Ora Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 Good for brake pads lol. Going through two baskets of lump is a consern are you sure you locked the lid properly even with a slight leak in seal the kk would not do that Outback kamado Bar and Grill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucker Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 wow, two baskets of lump!? Something is wrong there. I have cooked low-n-slow (200-225f) on my 23" for almost 72 hours on one basket; multiple cooks of course, shoulder, ribs, brisket. I also use the digi Q without issues. very troubling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amusedtodeath Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 For me, too much time and effort goes in to brisket not to open the wallet for Prime or better, beef. It's tricky enough with that, let alone adding in issues with crazy lean cuts. Nothing worse than ending up with brake pads, and nothing better than ending up with tender and juicy! I'm sure we've all been in both situations... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve M Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 I agree with amusedtodeath, start out with a nice cut like prime or wagyu. Also, half a turn may be too much for the kk. I can get there on about a quarter of a turn while using a cyberQ. On that one, it has a display for fan speed. You don't want it running at 0% or 100%; that means it is getting too much or not enough air. In a worse case scenario, make the BBQ sauce to brisket ratio > 3:1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Ed_ Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 Yeah, the whole fully grass-fed brisket thing is always a problem. Here in the UK, grain-fed beef is not very common, and attracts a much higher price than 'normal' brisket - which in the UK is grass fed. I much prefer grass-fed beef in general - forgive me, American friends, but US beef and that greasy palate feel is... unnerving to me - but there is almost no way to produce a good bbq brisket using grass-fed. The marbling isn't there, some of the fat is just too hard to render well, and you almost invariably end up with shoe leather. I've had some disagreements about this with some prominent UK butchers and restaurauteurs, but, having tried their brisket, I'm still of the firm opinion that grain-fed is the only suitable starting product for brisket. If I'm after bbq beef in general, though, grass-fed short ribs and featherblade turn out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony b Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 There's always injecting the brisket. I like this stuff if I'm doing a Choice grade brisket. https://www.butcherbbq.com/online-store/Brisket-Injection-p64796418 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekobo Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 4 hours ago, _Ed_ said: The marbling isn't there, some of the fat is just too hard to render well, and you almost invariably end up with shoe leather. I am so glad you are not too far away from me @_Ed_. Once I have got my brisket cooking down pat I think I can get one in a cooler and on the train to stalk you in London to prove how good UK brisket can be. I am currently leaning towards Dexter beef being the best for this and that has just the best fat ever. More experimenting to do first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Ed_ Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 @tekobo that sounds fun! you do a Dexter, and I'll grab a USDA from Tom Hixson and we can compare notes! The only even close-to-great UK brisket I have managed was indeed a Dexter, but I used the flat for braising and just did the point. Which is the best bit anyway... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacKenzie Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, tekobo said: I am so glad you are not too far away from me @_Ed_. Once I have got my brisket cooking down pat I think I can get one in a cooler and on the train to stalk you in London to prove how good UK brisket can be. I am currently leaning towards Dexter beef being the best for this and that has just the best fat ever. More experimenting to do first. 7 minutes ago, _Ed_ said: @tekobo that sounds fun! you do a Dexter, and I'll grab a USDA from Tom Hixson and we can compare notes! The only even close-to-great UK brisket I have managed was indeed a Dexter, but I used the flat for braising and just did the point. Which is the best bit anyway... And the fight was on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobCordeau Posted July 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 Regarding the beef - I usually prefer the grass fed and have a local butcher that sources really good meat usually. Here in the states, grass-fed is more expensive - even more than Prime (but less than wagyu). The brisket I got this time around was from Whole Foods, and I did look at it and thought to myself "Hey, self, this isn't a good idea. I don't see much fat." But, I let the guy convince me that it'll be fine and told myself to shut the hell up. I knew better, but I did it anyway, and I'm mad at myself for it. Regarding the baskets of lump - well I don't think I had my top closed that much. It was likely open about a full turn. Now, the Flame Boss does the fan a bit differently and uses some feedback loop to pulse the fan at different "speeds", instead of how the BBQ Guru does it. Maybe my vent was open too high, or I don't know. It was the first time doing low-and-slow with Rockwood char instead of KJ char. And the first time around I was able to use less than a whole basket and didn't use the fan. I'm rather dumbfounded by it. Now, the Rockwood char pieces were all rather small - like 2 - 3 (5-7.5cm) inches long at best, with maybe 1 or 2 pieces being larger. And I have noticed that I burn through that char even on "normal" cooks. That could be an issue, but if so, I'd be an outlier because so many people have had good experiences with that brand. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony b Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 I'm guessing that using only the smaller pieces of lump might have something to do with it, but certainly not all, as small pieces do burn up quicker. I don't think the brand of lump here made any difference, as I've used both and they burn about the same. Next time, line the bottom of the basket with larger pieces and toss the smaller ones on top to help get it going. A full turn on the top was far too open for a low and slow cook. I'm leaning toward that being the culprit here over the size of the lump. One of the tricks of using the fan systems, regardless of brand, is to minimize the natural draft through the grill and rely on the fan to supply almost all of the air needed for combustion. With your top vent open that much, the grill was able to breath on it own. I'm surprised that your temps held as low as they did. I would have expected you to be about 100F higher than that for this top damper opening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckreef Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) I agree on the top vent setting being the culprit for the large lump consumption. There are two ways to maintain a given temperature. A very small fire with the top vent almost closed trapping all the heat (and moisture) in the kamado. This is the preferred method for low-n-slow in a kamado. You could also burn a hotter fire by having the top vent open more and introducing more air (from the fan). The temperature is still the same even though you're burning more fuel because you're loosing a lot of heat (and moisture) out the more open top vent. The end result is higher lump consumption and drier environment to cook in. Edited July 13, 2018 by ckreef 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekobo Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 17 hours ago, RobCordeau said: Regarding the beef - I usually prefer the grass fed and have a local butcher that sources really good meat usually. Here in the states, grass-fed is more expensive - even more than Prime (but less than wagyu). The brisket I got this time around was from Whole Foods, and I did look at it and thought to myself "Hey, self, this isn't a good idea. I don't see much fat." But, I let the guy convince me that it'll be fine and told myself to shut the hell up. I knew better, but I did it anyway, and I'm mad at myself for it. @RobCordeau, I know that sinking feeling when you forget to trust the voice inside your head and then find out it was right all along. The good news is that there is always another brisket and the hope that the next one will be the best ever. (As @_Ed_ is going to find when he gets a taste of mine.) I don't use a controller and cook brisket very low. I start with a half turn of the top vent to get the fire going but settle at less than an 1/8th of a turn of the top vent and one of the smaller holes on the LH vent giving me about 115C. Works well and doesn't burn through very much lump at all. Good luck with your next try! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisLinkletter Posted July 15, 2018 Report Share Posted July 15, 2018 It's the total weight of the charcoal/carbon you use that delivers X BTUs.. Charcoal from softer less dense woods appears to burn faster but it's the allowed airflow that determines how much charcoal is burning, nothing else. Always remember that "Charcoal always burns at the max volume for the allowed airflow.. Period." You have ignition, and fuel.. the only missing component for combustion is oxygen.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
